I was on high/normal dosage, ended up looking like a freak and being depressed. Everyone was staring at me and I did not look very feminine at all, just weird. My motivation completely disappeared as a result of low-T, no energy, very tired etc.

Decided to lower my dosage at start of 2014 and hit the gym, results were amazing. Face looked very feminine but not puffy and deformed like it was with high-E. Virtually no side effects, had enough T in me to retain goal-achieving complex and did not feel depression at all. Testosterone is amazing, testosterone makes the world go round.

For body feminization I was training at the gym. Low-E gave me soft skin and female fat deposition. Medium-T gave me the motivational drive and fuel for muscle growth. I used this on my lower body to achieve 38" hips along with a 25" waist. Whilst on high-E my body was just flabby.

IMO TS people shouldn't lower their T to "female range". IIRC there was a MTF here who looked very feminine, had her levels checked and it turned out her T was 200ng/dl. This is probably the sweet spot.

With low-T my face looked very gaunt, like an old man/woman and skin used to sag. If testosterone builds muscle and helps with skin elasticity it makes sense that it will help with feminization so long it's not in abundance and is used in conjunction with E.

What are your opinions on this?

A good endocrinologist who knows how to treat trans people is essential IMO

My opinion is that everyone is different. What suits one doesn't suit another. It's great you have found what works for you but it may not work for others.

I can vouch for low dose E with no T blocker.

Changes are slow and steady, Grace can vouch for that.
I'm not in a rush but it does work for me and that's what's important.

Jen

Quote from: Cindy on September 13, 2014, 04:54:45 AM
A good endocrinologist who knows how to treat trans people is essential IMO

A "good" endocrinologist aims to get your levels to match a female hormonal profile, which is <80ng/dl for T. For my theory to be put into practice you would have to specifically ask your endo to put your T into the lower sector range for men (~200ng/dl).

like Ms. Grace said, its all dependent upon the individual. I was on a high dose for pills, not sure now since I'm on injectcables but I had great feminization when I was on a high dose with pills.

When my T shot up past 200 last year, I felt miserable again. On average it stays below 100 usually less than 50, that's my sweet spot. 

I think it's because the body starts adjusting to the low doses. If you take a low dose forever, your body adapts to it and your feminization will slow down because the body already learnt a "fixed" way to respond to hormones. Post-menopause women don't have the symptoms lots of women who are going through menopause, like hot flashes, night sweats, mood swings, fatigue, but this isn't because their hormones went back to normal. Rather the woman's body is already adjusted to lack of feminizing hormones, and doesn't react to it anymore. It's basically the same with us, though the reversed situation.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on September 13, 2014, 05:21:49 AM
I think it's because the body starts adjusting to the low doses. If you take a low dose forever, your body adapts to it and your feminization will slow down because the body already learnt a "fixed" way to respond to hormones. Po

You mean your tolerance increases so you'll need more to achieve the same effects? I was on high-E for 2 years then shifted down to low-E, taking your theory into consideration it should have had almost no feminization effects whatsoever once dosages were reduced, but it worked surprisingly well.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on September 13, 2014, 05:12:33 AM
like Ms. Grace said, its all dependent upon the individual. I was on a high dose for pills, not sure now since I'm on injectcables but I had great feminization when I was on a high dose with pills. 

Yes but most TS take the one-size-fits-all approach. I think if you're on HRT for some time and aren't achieving great effects it might be worth a try to lower your dosage, especially if your face looks old and gaunt that could be aided with boosting your T or even taking TRT if you're post-op.

Quote from: 8888 on September 13, 2014, 05:26:41 AM
You mean your tolerance increases so you'll need more to achieve the same effects? I was on high-E for 2 years then shifted down to low-E, taking your theory into consideration it should have had almost no feminization effects whatsoever once dosages were reduced, but it worked surprisingly well.

Oh, yes! I get what you mean. But actually starting with a high dose doesn't always mean increased feminization. If you ingest high doses of estrogen too early, most of it will be converted into testosterone by an hormone similar to aromatose, so feminization will actually be quite challenging because the body is counteracting with testosterone.

Also it depends on what you mean by "great feminization". I am mostly talking about face and skin quality/youthfulness. My breasts almost disappeared when I went on low dosage but everything else became more feminine. This would be odd if not for the fact that some of the most feminine women you see in the real world have fairly small breasts.

Quote from: Auroramarianna on September 13, 2014, 05:32:59 AM
If you ingest high doses of estrogen too early, most of it will be converted into testosterone by an hormone similar to aromatose, so feminization will actually be quite challenging because the body is counteracting with testosterone.

Hasn't this been debunked? I thought only testosterone could convert to estrogen, but not the reverse? Anyway, judging by the way I felt on high dosage I'm pretty sure my T was quite low, unless the E converted to some other masculinizing chemical.

by great feminization I mean every possible effect, soft skin, feminized face (fuller cheeks, rounder features, fuller lips) widened hips, rounder shoulders etc..It basically reversed most of the effects T had on my body from puberty minus my voice and height within a few years.

Idk what happened to my last post but I stated was that I'm guessing why my endo started me on a high dose is due to my fast metabolism since the half life of the pills would be shorter than average. 

Low dosage isn't necessarily the same thing as higher-than-cis-female T, for one thing; for another, I agree with Ms. Grace that bodies are different and the goal is to find the minimum effective dose *for you.*

Personally, I've only ever been on a dose so low that it's within the menopausal cis female range, and no anti-androgens. I was pre-HRT with a T level of 190, and it certainly wasn't good for me. After 3 months on the super low dose E, I had a T level of 45 and fantastic beginning results (including being almost a C-cup already). So if your method works for you, great; it may not be as effective for someone else, just as my regimen clearly does not work for a lot of people. Part of the endo's job is to calibrate the dose to the particular patient.

I think your estrogen levels are the most important factor.  Some people will respond differently to the hormones.  Some may need less than others and some will need more.  The level of estradiol and happiness with your outcome is really most important.  For me, however, I found the dose did matter.

Quote from: Ms Grace on September 13, 2014, 04:56:45 AM
My opinion is that everyone is different. What suits one doesn't suit another. It's great you have found what works for you but it may not work for others.

Ms. Grace nails it. Each of us is different. I had T levels that refused to come down for a while and was also on slightly lower than normal e dosages. It totally failed to do anything for me. Changing type of estrogen, upping dosage, and finally adding spiro to get T down and now changes have been happening since we made those changes.

We're all unique. You cannot make a single prescriptive statement that handles every trans person. This is exactly why a qualified endocrinologist (or general practitioner who understands trans health care) needs to be in the loop. This is also exactly why self-medication is a Very Bad Idea (tm)!

Quote from: Auroramarianna on September 13, 2014, 05:32:59 AM
Oh, yes! I get what you mean. But actually starting with a high dose doesn't always mean increased feminization. If you ingest high doses of estrogen too early, most of it will be converted into testosterone by an hormone similar to aromatose, so feminization will actually be quite challenging because the body is counteracting with testosterone.

I thought that T was converted to E not the other way around.

Quote from: LizMarie on September 13, 2014, 12:15:46 PM
We're all unique. You cannot make a single prescriptive statement that handles every trans person. This is exactly why a qualified endocrinologist (or general practitioner who understands trans health care) needs to be in the loop. This is also exactly why self-medication is a Very Bad Idea (tm)!

I think that there is a lot that isn't understood about trans HRT just yet and most medical practice is trying to fit HRT for cis women into that of trans women. A big factor I see is that MTFs bodies have the ability to naturally produce a lot of T whereas cis women only produce a limited amount. I agree with the sentiment that most endos are just looking to get your levels in the female range and keep them there. That may or may not correlate with results and appearance. It's complex beyond my pay grade for sure but I think more research is needed.

Hi there 8888 i was just curious what form you get your e in?