I've   been going though a bad time lately. I'm heading into my 12th month and feeling great except for  one thing, I seem to be light years away from being gendered properly  without make up. I know  a year is miniscule in trans time,  but I just want to cry when I hear those three  letters. I'm truly grateful for my progress,  but  my brain needs those other 4 letters to be spoken . sorry, I'm just some what unhappy  from hearing sir  instead of ma'am  .

I can understand where you are coming from. There's no way I'd be gendered correctly without wearing my wig, so I just have to wear it until a miracle occurs and my hair actually regrows thick enough to no longer need the prop. In the same way you might want to pass without the makeup I'd love to pass without Hillary (my wig)...but if you feel you're not passing without the make up maybe you need to continue wearing it for (hopefully only) a little while longer.

well. l  guess  I should except that my face has  changed  a bit the  wanting  tomorrow to be today  kind of messes with you.

Very few cis-women leave the house without makeup.  For them it's about feeling pretty, not being mis-gendered.  But the concept is the same.

Quote from: katiej on September 14, 2014, 04:22:56 AM
Very few cis-women leave the house without makeup.  For them it's about feeling pretty, not being mis-gendered.  But the concept is the same.

Not true every where.. Or for every one..

I know plenty of cis women who get mis gendered as well, often on the phone and also IRL.

What expression do you usually wear when you go out? I find that when I put on my sweet shy smile, my facial femininity increases like a thousand percent (possible exaggeration here lol). People seem to really respond, and I'm generally treated as woman as far as I can tell. It was great being asked "what would ladies like to drink" when I was out with my mum on Friday -it certainly helped my wee smile
So if you aren't already, I say smile your heart out!

Katiej : Around here, many cis women prefer not to wear makeup, and definitely don't usually go out heavily made up unless they're also all dressed up for some fancy event. Your larger point is a good one, though - it's partly about matching the local beauty standards.  If you stand out, you'll get *more* funny looks and close inspections (which is of course risky when it comes to being clocked). I definitely got stared at when wearing a ton of makeup, and had to learn to apply it very subtly.

My most effective trick was to look at women around my age and coloring and body type, and constantly make notes about how they presented themselves.

Hi I am so sorry to hear about your challenges at this point as things never seem to move in the direction we want or as fast as we want them to. This is always a thorny subject and difficult to navigate I think so If I miss step please forgive me. I found makeup on its own to not be a primary factor to determine absolute gender cues. Perhaps there is other things going on that are not working in your favour and you may not be aware of what they are. Have you asked for feedback to get a bearing on what is clueing people in?

This seems to be a journey more than a destination and I have seen many CIS girls struggle with allot of things that I thought would be unique to us special girls but for some reason we like to beat our selves up and hold our selves to a higher standard which I am extremely guilty of and need to get level set by my CIS friends quite often

I loveovelove makeup. In fact, I used to be the Fashion and Beauty Editor for a regional women's magazine. I received boxes of samples all the time. But to answer your question, makeup is a double-edged mascara wand and lipstick combo from Clinique, er, sword. If you wear too much and don't do it right, it could get you clocked. Dramatic makeup is for the night. The day should be nudes and shimmer powder and a light foundation. Not all women wear makeup every day, but many do the basics: foundation/powder, mascara, lipstick/gloss. My friend won't leave the house without it as she has self-image issues. I have the same problem and my BF thinks I look better with less and he can't wait to I get laser so I'm not primping and preening so much. That's in two weeks. 

But, if you like makeup, why the concern about passing if it helps? Or do you want to be one of those natural beauties who don't wear so much as a drop of makeup and look fabulous. My BFF from college was like that. She never wore it and could have been a model.

Stephanie, may I suggest you experiment a bit? I found that I can get by with some light foundation and a fairly neutral lipstick and nothing more. Given that I wear glasses, and often sun glasses during the day, skipping on eyeliner and eye shadow don't seem to make a big difference to me. I can put on a "to go" face in just a few minutes this way, and if I want to really jazz up, I can still take the time to do that.

I  think  maybe  a part of the problem is that I've  lived in a  down town area for the past 20 years so all the clerks in the stores have known me as male.  When I wear minimal foundation, eye liner and lashes ,I don't have a problem. Maybe I'm just being unrealistic and Ii should just except the progress I have made so far and  just hope for more change from HRT.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 14, 2014, 05:31:37 AM
I know plenty of cis women who get mis gendered as well, often on the phone and also IRL.

Precisely.
You'll get there, hun.

Quote from: stephaniec on September 14, 2014, 04:03:32 PM
I  think  maybe  a part of the problem is that I've  lived in a  down town area for the past 20 years so all the clerks in the stores have known me as male.  When I wear minimal foundation, eye liner and lashes ,I don't have a problem. Maybe I'm just being unrealistic and Ii should just except the progress I have made so far and  just hope for more change from HRT.

I'm very sorry to hear about this. Can I offer you a hug?

Maybe what you're hinting at is that you need a change of scenery. Do you travel at all? Even a car or bus trip to another town?

Quote from: ImagineKate on September 15, 2014, 06:42:08 AM
I'm very sorry to hear about this. Can I offer you a hug?

Maybe what you're hinting at is that you need a change of scenery. Do you travel at all? Even a car or bus trip to another town?

well, I'll take the hug. I  go outside my area when I go shopping  ,  as long as I have make up on I get gendered correctly.. I guess I just need to be patient  it iis probably going to be another year to get to where I want to be. thanks for all the support though

I feel for you hun, I left the house without makeup for the first time in ages the other day, I guess I was getting complacent because I had had a run of positive days. Anyway, I got stares in the supermarket and one look of pure hatred from one guy, I left my basket and fled the scene immediately, I was so upset!

In my opinion the perfect makeup job is when it is hard to tell you are wearing much. But that is just me!

Quote from: Alice Rogers on September 15, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
I feel for you hun, I left the house without makeup for the first time in ages the other day, I guess I was getting complacent because I had had a run of positive days. Anyway, I got stares in the supermarket and one look of pure hatred from one guy, I left my basket and fled the scene immediately, I was so upset!

In my opinion the perfect makeup job is when it is hard to tell you are wearing much. But that is just me!

yea , I've had those meltdowns in busy stores, not fun.

Quote from: Alice Rogers on September 15, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
In my opinion the perfect makeup job is when it is hard to tell you are wearing much. But that is just me!

This is exactly right.  Makeup is about reaching a baseline of even skin, defined eyebrows, a bit of lip color, and eyes that pop.  I'm not suggesting that you do smokey eyes or Nikki Minaj makeup every day...that would look ridiculous and get you clocked.

For some women, reaching this baseline requires more effort than for others.  So I wasn't meaning to say that all women get totally made up every time they walk out of the house.  But most of them do have some basic things they do.  Even the non made up look requires a bit of BB creme and some mascara.  Very few women go out regularly with zero makeup.

And what Jenna said about paying attention to what women in your age range do with makeup/fashion is really a great piece of advice.  It's about blending in.

Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 08:27:40 PM
This is exactly right.  Makeup is about reaching a baseline of even skin, defined eyebrows, a bit of lip color, and eyes that pop.  I'm not suggesting that you do smokey eyes or Nikki Minaj makeup every day...that would look ridiculous and get you clocked.

For some women, reaching this baseline requires more effort than for others.  So I wasn't meaning to say that all women get totally made up every time they walk out of the house.  But most of them do have some basic things they do.  Even the non made up look requires a bit of BB creme and some mascara. Very few women go out regularly with zero makeup.

And what Jenna said about paying attention to what women in your age range do with makeup/fashion is really a great piece of advice.  It's about blending in.

And I'm still going to call you on the bolded bit.. I know many women who go out most days without makeup. And are happy to do so, myself included.

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 15, 2014, 08:44:40 PM
And I'm still going to call you on the bolded bit.. I know many women who go out most days without makeup. And are happy to do so, myself included.

I live across  the street from a major university where the  norm is no or minimal make  up, so to blend  in even for the older bracket  less is the best.