Quote from: Ms Grace on September 13, 2014, 07:14:19 PM
A lot is about presentation too, I use a wig and most likely will have to the rest of my life, it is the one prop I do need to help me pass. Without Hillary I wouldn't pass at all. So I'd say that if you feel you do not pass, what prop/s might you need to get over the line? Sure, some feel you're not truly passing until you can walk out the door in jeans, a tee and no makeup and be called "she", but for many of us if we're waiting for that golden moment as our validation of being able to pass it may be a long time coming, if ever. Why wait when, with a little help from whatever prop you need, you can be living as the person you want to be?

This is really good advice.  And I'd bet that a lot of these who are waiting to pass for female while in guy mode would have no trouble at all with a little makeup and a girly (less andro) outfit.  I'm just guessing. 

Quote from: Ashey on September 14, 2014, 03:59:22 AM
3 months after starting HRT. I literally passed as soon as I got my eyebrows waxed.

The eyebrows make such a huge difference.

I was called she sometimes pre-HRT at 29, but after about 60 days on HRT I started getting she'd and it never stopped. I am still clocked occasionally, specifically in the last two weeks. I stopped plucking facial hair and I'm waiting for LHR in two weeks. So I figure that's why and all these times I was looking a hot mess.

But really soon. My expereince may not apply as I have an intersex condition: De La Chappelle Syndrome. I imagine that helps. I had issues at birth until surgery at three years old. I was supposed to stay in the hospital a year. So yeah, it helps in passing, but it also gave me severe problems and by age 16 I was a heroin addict.

Oh wow I haven't even tried make up or fixing facial hair or anything yet. But some of the results you girls are saying is awesome!
I'm quite jealous that some of you passed as soon as you went full female mode. I still have to try that >.>

Quote from: Annabelle on September 14, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
Oh wow I haven't even tried make up or fixing facial hair or anything yet. But some of the results you girls are saying is awesome!
I'm quite jealous that some of you passed as soon as you went full female mode. I still have to try that >.>

Have faith in yourself Annabelle.  When you are ready, you WILL pass, and you will be so happy that you took the plunge. 

Xxx

The wig, makeup, and padding the breast area really helped in my case, but the laser hair removal has started to have the affect where the makeup is completely needed anymore to pass.

Quote from: Annabelle on September 14, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
Oh wow I haven't even tried make up or fixing facial hair or anything yet. But some of the results you girls are saying is awesome!
I'm quite jealous that some of you passed as soon as you went full female mode. I still have to try that >.>

A few weeks ago, almost six months into taking HRT I was in Indianapolis for business. Everywhere I went people were calling me "lady" or "ma'am", it was great! I came back home to Chicago and got called "sir" all the time. Go fig!

I have no idea. I'm usually gendered appropriately but I got slammed with a "Look at that big tall man" yesterday (she was talking to a baby) by someone who I'd just met earlier in the day and I wasn't "out" to her. My head is still mush from that cause it's been over a year since something that violent happened to me.

I always got female pronouns when I presented with a wig. So if thats the definition of passing I have always passed. If your definition of pass is when no one knows and thinks about you being trans, I'm like 90% there.

Without the wig I didn't get female pronouns till I had it cut to a female style (was still only chin length). In my experience the hair does it. As long as you aren't talking in a burly voice you can pass. I never realized how deep women's voices are until I became so self-conscious trying to get it right. So getting into the target range took time, sore throats, and frustration but it was not as problematic as I thought it would be.

With the voice in range, and hair I liked, my confidence and nonchalant behavior has pushed me over the top.

I was on HRT for six weeks when I went to Las Vegas, three years and one week ago, and sitting in the airport coffee shop I got "miss"ed and "ma'am"ed and it was the first time I actually tried to look a step past androgynous. Then when I got searched everyone there assumed I was a woman and everyone was 'can I help you, miss?', etc. and the reason I went to begin with was to be able to live 24/7 for a week straight. I was supposed to come home in my male clothes, but didn't and my mom saw me dressed as a female for the first time since I was fourteen. She was shocked, and later that night out of the blue, she said, "Before I let you start living as a girl here, you have to tell your brother and your nieces. I did the next day and haven't worn a stitch of male clothing in three years and seven days today!!! I passed from the beginning, although there were a few times in the first few months that I got 'sir'ed, but I always said, "Excuse me, but I'm female." I pretty much owned it that I'm a woman from day one at the airport. Once the female was used, I just fell into it. My advice is the same as Jessica's, you have to believe that you're a woman, because if you don't believe you're a girl/woman, few others will see you as one. If someone sees fear, reluctance or body language inconsistent with confidence, they'll look more intently to find out why you're scared, like sharks smelling blood.

Quote from: Pinkkatie on September 14, 2014, 07:11:52 PM
A few weeks ago, almost six months into taking HRT I was in Indianapolis for business. Everywhere I went people were calling me "lady" or "ma'am", it was great! I came back home to Chicago and got called "sir" all the time. Go fig!

I'd say that you weren't as worried about it when you were in Indianapolis, so you weren't self conscious, then when you got home, you got scared. Like Jessica said, you have to believe in yourself that you're a woman and that we pass. I know there are definitely lots of exceptions, and not everyone passes no matter what till many months on HRT and sometimes FFS, but have faith in yourself. If you don't nobody will.

I say I started passing about a year ago in an earlier post in this thread but I'd like to clarify. I think my perspective might help some early transitioners. 

For myself I only started to truly pass was when I finally accepted that I was passing in my mind.. I was being gendered female consistently before I considered myself to be passing, the problem was that I had no self confidence and was terrified of going out. So in my head I kept telling myself I wasn't passing at all, when in reality it that was so far from the truth. Despite everyone around me telling me I passed, I had my voice down and everything. I was holding myself back because of my personal fears and a poor self image that I had.

So about a year ago was when I started to slowly change that mindset and a lil bit later, I finally looked in the mirror and smiled at myself because I finally felt and saw what everyone else had been seeing for so long.

I would say, I am balancing on quite thin line atm. I dunno what might be the tipping point - sometimes it feels like it might be choice of one shirt/top instead of other. Like being clad in denim from tips to toes will almost instantly gender me as male no matter what other accessories are. Change that denim shirt for smth lighter and a bit tighter and guys start holding doors for me. 

This is tricky for me because I've been mistaken for female all my life. Not always but it happened quite a bit. It was embarrassing at first because I didn't understand it. I was even labeled as "female" recently by some receptionist on a random medical form. I only found out when I read the paper after I got home 

I suppose once I start HRT everything should fall nicely into place. I can only hope and pray.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 15, 2014, 03:43:28 AM
being clad in denim from tips to toes will almost instantly gender me as male

The Texas Tuxedo is not a very feminine look.

I didn't believe the "believe you pass and you will" mantra until recently.  A lot of people around here seem to have the idea that they don't pass unless they're getting called ma'am when they're in guy mode.  Well, that's just not realistic.  But if you're dressed like a women, and you confidently present yourself as a woman, then you'll be treated like a woman.  How is that not passing?

I started passing about 3 1/2 months into HRT. My hair was already long (grew it out for a year and a half at the time) and dyed red (Henna) for several years.

Hmmm...You know, I think it's worth pointing out that there is a HUGE difference between being called "she" or "mham" and actually passing-I've noticed that a lot of the time people will know you are trans, overlook the fact and just get on with their day.  I was gendered as female before I came out of the closet, but passibility is something that's come only recently.  I still have friends I haven't disclosed to asking me questions about my transition...so eighteen months on hormones and I still don't full pass-even though I look like a girl, I am still often perceived as transgender. But that's getting less common as time goes on, which I am very thankful for.   

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on September 15, 2014, 10:13:34 PM
Hmmm...You know, I think it's worth pointing out that there is a HUGE difference between being called "she" or "ma'am" and actually passing-I've noticed that a lot of the time people will know you are trans, overlook the fact and just get on with their day.

You make a good point and I had wondered if that was the case for me. I no longer wonder due to several events that have happened then.

One time I was at a fast food restaurant traveling in GA with my wife about 2 weeks full time. (Krystal burgers.) Keep in mind I'm 6'7". The cashier was straightening out her money in the register when I walked up and didn't look up and only saw me out of the corner of her eye. She just assumed male simply from my height. She started to say, "I'll be right with you sir..." and then looked up and said, "Oh, I'm so sorry, I mean ma'am. Wow you are a tall women." She went out of the way to correct herself and if she had gendered my otherwise, it would have been simpler for her to just jeep going without correcting herself.

Another time, my wife and I were having dinner in NJ where we live at a new restaurant that just opened up with a lesbian friend who is a soft butch at most, but many would say a tom boy. She was dressed more feminine than masculine with light makeup and her voice is higher than mine (but not by much), but she has a Hungarian accent. The hosted at the restaurant called her sir and me ma'am, so obviously I passed there.

And Finally, one time I was at a Panera Bread and this 6 year old girl kept starring and smiling at me while standing in line. I had only been full time for about 3 weeks and I thought I was going to be outed by a 6 year old. After all they are honest and going to say whatever comes to their minds. Instead she says to me: "Wow, your a tall lady!" I responded with, "Yes I am and smiled back." The mother of the girl smiled at me as well. Then the 6 year old noticed that the woman at the cash register was also tall (about 6'6"). Then the 6 your old says pointing at her: "She's a tall lady too." Then she turns to her mom and says: "Mommy I wand to be tall like her (pointing at me)." Then she points out her mom and says: "Your short!" The mom got a little embarrassed at this point and apologized to me and I told her that it was OK, and complemented how cute her daughter was. The mother and I chatted over how the pick 2 menu thing works at Panera Bread as she was a little confused about how it worked.

So for me I do know that I in fact do pass. Is it all the time?? We'll it seems to be. The only time I ever get called sir is half the time on the phone. (But so did my Grandmother and her voice was deeper than mine.)

Unfortunately it takes instances like these to really know for sure.

Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 09:28:57 PM
The Texas Tuxedo is not a very feminine look.

I beg to disagree .
http://atrailofsequins.blogspot.com/2012/04/texas-tuxedo.html

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on September 15, 2014, 10:13:34 PM
Hmmm...You know, I think it's worth pointing out that there is a HUGE difference between being called "she" or "mham" and actually passing-I've noticed that a lot of the time people will know you are trans, overlook the fact and just get on with their day.  I was gendered as female before I came out of the closet, but passibility is something that's come only recently.  I still have friends I haven't disclosed to asking me questions about my transition...so eighteen months on hormones and I still don't full pass-even though I look like a girl, I am still often perceived as transgender. But that's getting less common as time goes on, which I am very thankful for.

See, I've have the opposite experience. My experience is that it is VERY hard to get read as trans. I pretty much started having experiences worthy of the "you know you pass when..." section pretty much as soon as people started calling me "she," even at the exact same time as others were still gendering me male pretty confidently. And I think a lot of us basically go straight from people assuming that we're cis men to assuming that we're cis woman. I've never had a single person ask me if I was transgender. But I can't tell you the number of times that people have said things to me like "wow, you must have played basketball in high school, right?"

If you dress androgynously, people are unlikely to ever read you as trans. They might ask themselves "is that a boy or a girl?" but probably not think to themselves that you're a trans woman, unless they're very familiar with trans people. Honestly, if you ask me, the only way that I ever see people getting read as trans easily by people is when they wear blatantly-feminine clothing while not yet having a blatantly-feminine body, or if their voice and mannerisms are so blatantly-masculine that it immediately gives them away.

Being trans is really far off of most people's radars. A lot of them need some pretty blatantly-obvious clues before they would suspect a thing.

Also, I've noticed that there is a point that most trans people reach, where even if you don't look or sound completely cis, even if people can possibly tell that you're trans, you're so close to your identity gender in terms of appearance and mannerisms that they really don't care, because they honestly can't imagine you as anything but your current self. And while very few can reach the mark where they're so passable that nobody ever suspects that they're trans, just about everyone can reach that "acceptance" point and go about their lives with nobody really caring.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on September 16, 2014, 02:40:35 AM
Being trans is really far off of most people's radars. A lot of them need some pretty blatantly-obvious clues before they would suspect a thing.

I really agree with this.  A while back Grace said something in another thread that I think is absolutely true.  Most people go around with the mantra "I'm cis, you're cis, we're all cis."  Unless something is really out of place, people don't really notice.

This weekend I had a really long road trip.  Toward the end I'm sure I was looking like a hot mess, and my mustache shadow was probably showing more than I care to admit.  I stopped for gas and a Diet Coke at 2am in a really small town, and the convenience store clerk looked at me with a really puzzled look.  He probably read me...but whatever. 

First ma'am was about 5 months HRT. I need more confidence in myself to go out En'Femme without 'assistance.'

Am 7 months HRT now and haven't had issue going out. So I guess I'm passing.