Quote from: katiej on September 09, 2014, 09:34:19 PM
I assume you already have a nice archtop jazz box or three. 

Actually I don't!  I've really only done rock/classic rock/hard rock/classic hard rock/metal/classic metal and blues.

I did own a 1964 ES-335 for a bit like 16 years ago, but I had to pay rent with it.  Too bad.  Those are worth stupid money now.  I sort of miss it.  I have played a real D'Angelico and a real D'Aquisto though.   Maybe after my rockabilly kick, I'll give jazz a shot?

The new Tony Levin (and his lesser known brother) CD (signed!) showed up at my house today, and it's supposed to be "cool jazz" instead of his usual prog.  He's a really nice guy.

Wow, we probably need to merge this into the guitar thread now.

I'll just PM you.

I have had two ways I am considering, in regards to coming out to my wife.

The first way sees me spend the day with my wife (after she gives birth in January). I do a lot of nice happy things with her. I then sit down in a park with her, start from the very beginning of my feelings as to who I really am, and lead up to the present. I then ask her if she has any questions, anything she wants to say, and then ask if she would like to speak to my psychologist to get an understanding of what is happening, from a professional. I already have the appointment lined up, and we cross the road from the park to where the psychologists office is.

The second way is to do what I have been doing some of lately. Dropping a few hints, talking about things that are clearly not male centric, ask her various hypotheticals etc. Then when I feel the time is right, introduce her to this site. Have a couple of particular messages lined up ready for her to read, including one of my own where I describe my journey so far (of course she would not know it was me). Then after she has read what I have wanted her to read, tell her that what she just read was my life story, and then ask if she has any questions etc...at least the second one is a long slow winding path that I can do before she gives birth, thus not stressing her out while pregnant

I don't know about that...your scenarios feel a bit manipulative.  That word is a bit too harsh, but it feels like you're setting the mood just right so that you can control the outcome of the conversation.  And IMO that's the exact wrong way to do it.  Women are very perceptive about things like this.  They know when they're being told how to feel, and they really resent it.

The coming out conversation isn't normally a clean and simple discussion along intellectual lines.  It will get emotional, and that's natural.  It's going to be a shock...you can't lessen the blow no matter how you butter her up.

Perhaps the biggest piece of advice that I could give is this.  I have noticed that relationships have a much better chance of remaining intact when the spouse is treated like a partner in the process, and this includes the beginning decisions about whether to even transition.  If it feels like you're throwing down an ultimatum instead of asking for her help, then it will likely feel like you're taking away her ability get on board willingly. 

I definitely wouldn't mention the therapist until later.  And please for the love of God don't have an appointment ready.  Have you already been seeing a therapist?

How about, "Sweetie, I'm starting to think I might be transgender and need to talk to a therapist about it ASAP."

Quote from: Michelle G on September 06, 2014, 01:18:50 AM
Yep it was a rough few days when I told my spouse almost three years ago, thankfully she is very understanding and what we have together is much stronger than what damage this had the potential to cause.
  She soon shared some her things that didn't fit her anymore and we have had many mall shopping trips to have fun picking out cute things side by side. The other day she commented that she has noticed what my "fashion style" is and that she is envious that I can wear smaller sizes and cuter things than her...quite a compliment since I've always admired her fashion sense.

I know this was posted a while back but I must say its good to hear you have an understanding wife. Mine is apparently the minority of spouses whom want to just about kick you to the curb for even bringing it up.It's not like I didn't have a femine pose or like her clothes better from the start but its the darker side. Somehow this post did make my day though so I wanted to comment on it.

Quote from: Releca on September 15, 2014, 09:59:15 PM
I know this was posted a while back but I must say its good to hear you have an understanding wife. Mine is apparently the minority of spouses whom want to just about kick you to the curb for even bringing it up.It's not like I didn't have a femine pose or like her clothes better from the start but its the darker side. Somehow this post did make my day though so I wanted to comment on it.

I wish that my wife was open to the idea.

Something just occurred to me, and it's half thought out, but I'll put it out there anyway...

Quick Disclaimer: Not everyone is the same, not every relationship is the same.  Society should be a certain way, but usually isn't.  Some SO's will never be accepting.  I get all that.  So please don't nitpick my over-generalizations. 


Men typically think/act a certain way.  Even transwomen, who aren't really men, are still used to male privilege and thinking like men.  And roles in a heteronormative marriage still do have an "equal but different" connotation.  Men lead in decision-making, women support the decision-making.  It's part of the sexism inherent in our culture.

But when we come out to our wives, we can no longer expect to throw down an ultimatum and expect to be able to talk them into it.  This is why the concept of partnership is so important, and seems to be a key ingredient in the marriages that survive. 

We have to accept that our role changes immediately.  It certainly has for me...and it did immediately.  Essentially we, as husbands, have to learn quickly to become wives.

For example, my wife and I had lived in a small town for about 13 years, and we spent the last 5 years half-heartedly trying to move.  But when I came out to her, one of her initial reactions was "we can't stay here.  We have got to move before we can even deal with this."  She was exactly right, and six weeks later we moved to Seattle.  I had been the one dragging my feet on moving, and at that time felt like I had a right to take lead in that decision.  But accepting my new role, I let her take over. 

This has actually helped her feel like she has a measure of control, even after I turned things upside down.  And I've actually felt more natural in the supporting role.  I like being a wife.

Anyway...I'm really just thinking out loud here.  What do you all think?

Mac and Releca, can I assume you both are out to your wives?

I just wanna say: Trying to drop subtle hints did not work for my gf. She had to straight up spell it out for me to be like 'OH!'.

Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 09:02:00 PM
I don't know about that...your scenarios feel a bit manipulative.  That word is a bit too harsh, but it feels like you're setting the mood just right so that you can control the outcome of the conversation.  And IMO that's the exact wrong way to do it.  Women are very perceptive about things like this.  They know when they're being told how to feel, and they really resent it.

The coming out conversation isn't normally a clean and simple discussion along intellectual lines.  It will get emotional, and that's natural.  It's going to be a shock...you can't lessen the blow no matter how you butter her up.

Perhaps the biggest piece of advice that I could give is this.  I have noticed that relationships have a much better chance of remaining intact when the spouse is treated like a partner in the process, and this includes the beginning decisions about whether to even transition.  If it feels like you're throwing down an ultimatum instead of asking for her help, then it will likely feel like you're taking away her ability get on board willingly. 

I definitely wouldn't mention the therapist until later.  And please for the love of God don't have an appointment ready.  Have you already been seeing a therapist?

Well, I have told my wife, and she is supportive. I told her about the therapy, I told her what is to be expected. I gave her a timeline for when things will be happening, and hoped she would be there with me. I asked if she wanted me to make an appointment with the therapist in case there was something she wanted to talk about, but she is fine

Quote from: Asniceasme on September 16, 2014, 03:18:38 AM
I gave her a timeline for when things will be happening, and hoped she would be there with me.

Are you informing her, or are you asking her to be involved in the decision-making process?  You're riding a very thin line there.

How did she take it when you came out?

Quote from: katiej on September 16, 2014, 03:45:47 AM
Are you informing her, or are you asking her to be involved in the decision-making process?  You're riding a very thin line there.

How did she take it when you came out?

A bit of both. She wants to be involved in the process, but she also wanted to know a rough timeline...I didn't say to her that I am taking this, then in two months I am taking this, then in five months I am going to go fulltime...I said to her a timeline in broad terms, such as someone would first start on this, then if their body reponds ok, the dosage may be increased. After a couple of months, this drug may be added...and so forth.

And she is ok...I think she may have known for a while something was up, but couldn't put a finger on it...and what softened the blow for her was the little hints and questions I had been asking.

Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 10:34:18 PM
Mac and Releca, can I assume you both are out to your wives?

Never ass u me. It makes an ass out of u and me . No, I am not out to my wife. She is rather straight with regard to the issue and I have not found a way to get her to be more accepting.

Quote from: katiej on September 15, 2014, 10:28:21 PM
Men typically think/act a certain way.  Even transwomen, who aren't really men, are still used to male privilege and thinking like men.  And roles in a heteronormative marriage still do have an "equal but different" connotation.  Men lead in decision-making, women support the decision-making.  It's part of the sexism inherent in our culture.

I really hate this. I always am asking her to make a decision and she refuses to. She always wants to defer to me. Some things I definitely have a handle on - technology and transportation. Other stuff? I can't decide to save my life. So usually it goes back and forth until the equivalent of putting all the choices up on a dart board and throwing a random dart and sticking to it happens. For example, we can't even decide what's for dinner. Usually we fight to see who asks the other first because neither of us wants to decide. It's been a running joke for almost 10 years now.

Moving? Sure, I would like to move. I hate the state I live in for a number of reasons. But she loves the house and where we live. So I can't make that decision.

I speak partly from my own experience.  How you come out to your wife really depends on how you perceive her reaction based somewhat on her knowledge of ->-bleeped-<-.  My wife was and still is quite ignorant on this.  She is also very religious, and yes, that can also make a difference.  She knew I was seeing a therapist.  It was necessary for me to eventually "out" myself to her because in the 90's, my therapist was following the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care.  My wife was required to attend the last session, which she did.  Afterwards she told me she felt like my therapist and I "ganged up" on her.  Anyway, I never proceeded with hrt and rlt which was my next step.  After about a month she thought I was "cured".  Anyway, I've been on hrt for very nearly seven months.  She is unaware, which should give you an idea of our relationship, because I do have some rather obvious growth.
I only knew of one other TS and his wife decided on divorce.  Not all wives will be like this.  I know there are some out there that are very supportive, or at least become so.  However one chooses to come out to their wife, her reaction, I believe, will be pretty much the same whether you spring it on her, let her "find out", or open a discussion that evolves around to the subject.  The important thing is in how you make her understand what ->-bleeped-<- is, how it effects you, and how it will effect her.  It would also help to involve her in your therapy.  Understand, however, that her own perceptions, religious beliefs, etc., will drive her to her response and acceptance or lack thereof.  The hard part will be to make her understand and be able to explain to her how this doesn't have to be a negative in your lives.  She already has a preconceived idea as to what she expects of you as her husband and a man, and you are about to change all that.  Anyone who comes out to their wives/family really needs to be prepared with a little research ahead of time and probably either be in therapy or about to enter into therapy with family support.

My wife knew I was not your factory standard model male going in.  In fact, my feminine traits were one of the things she was attracted to.  When we got together, I was still lying to myself with the coping mechanism that I could do both.  This went on for years, through our dating, our engagement and the first couple years of marriage.

Eventually, one of my closest friends inspired me to finally stop BSing myself and ACT before even more time passed.  So, my wife found out almost the same time I accepted it myself.

I told her by mentioning it as she was walking by the door.  She said something along the lines of "Yeah, I kind of figured."  That was the start of a 6 month period of mourning/coping/acceptance which were painful in many various ways and joyous in others.  During which of course, I made the situation even more stressful because I was PANICKED about starting HRT ASAP before I wasted any more time.

It was not the easiest time of our marriage, but we're still together and very happy.  She took me out for a surprise pedicure over the weekend. 

A recent study shows that roughly half of all serious relationships survive transition.  We're told the opposite...that total rejection by anyone you've ever known or loved is pretty much inevitable.  And it's just not true.

Quote from: mac1 on September 16, 2014, 10:52:43 AM
Never ass u me. It makes an ass out of u and me . No, I am not out to my wife. She is rather straight with regard to the issue and I have not found a way to get her to be more accepting.

I phrased it as a question.  I wasn't saying that I assumed anything.  You had said that you wished your wife was more accepting, but you haven't even given her a chance.  Jill's advice a bit earlier here is really spot on.  The best thing is to approach your wife and say that you're having a really hard time and think you might be transgender and should talk to a professional. 

If you do it that way, you're asking your wife to help you get through a hard time.  And you're also giving her time to come to acceptance.  There's no ultimatum, no manipulation, and you're treating her like a partner in your relationship.

There was another thread here recently where a transwoman was so sure that her wife wouldn't be accepting, so she went ahead and started transition.  She told the rest of her family and friends, but didn't tell her wife until 6 months after starting HRT.  SIX MONTHS!!  And then when her wife predictably took it very badly, she felt justified.  Seriously?!?  It was a self fulfilling prophecy.  Of course she took it badly!

When I came out to my wife, she said it hurt that I had hidden this from her for so long, but she understood.  And it really did help her to know that I had never told anyone about it.  She was the first.

Quote from: katiej on September 16, 2014, 06:03:52 PM
When I came out to my wife, she said it hurt that I had hidden this from her for so long, but she understood.  And it really did help her to know that I had never told anyone about it.  She was the first.

My wife was the first to know as well.  I never told anyone until then because I wasn't even really out to myself.  There was always this little thing in the back of my head, but I could bury it pretty deep and I didn't think I'd ever have to actually go there.  You don't need to tell anyone about your potentially embarrassing non-issues.  The problem is that gender dysphoria is a progressive thing.  By the time I had to come out, it had gone from a whisper in the background to screaming bloody murder, and I was about ready to die if I couldn't explore my true gender.

I am lucky to have had experiences with relationships in the past that taught me to be up front when the relationship started.  I know that not everybody has had this luxury because they may not have been completely honest with themselves, and it really comes down to timing.  When we first met, I was very up front about how I felt about my own gender to her.  Now my problem is just how to deal with the rest of the world.  For me, it is difficult enough that I often think maybe I shouldn't do it, but I know at the same time that if I don't, I will remain unhappy.  In the end it is like you are damned either way!  This logic would still seem to apply to coming out to a spouse.