cis people don't understand what it feels like to have dsyphoria-to want to get rid of your own body parts
they don't understand that transitioning can make the difference between being deppressed and miserable all the time and having a happy life
they don't understand that transitioning involves much more then just having "the surgery"
they don't understand that what you have down there doesn't make you a woman or a man and neither does whether your chromosomes are xx or xy (or in some intersex people something else)
they don't understand that having people check boxes on forms for "male" and "female" leaves many of us out
they don't understand that our language (and some other languages like french where even objects have genders even more so) ,our bathrooms, ppur schools, and our society are built on a binary that excludes us
they don't understand that we ARE ACTUALLY the gender we feel like whether or not we've done anything medically to transition
they don't understand....I wish I could get them to
feel free to add anything I missed

I hate how they think orientation and gender identity go together that if your MTF you must like men or if your FTM you must like women.

I think a lot of cis people don't even think there IS such a thing as internally wired gender. I hear a lot of people, especially feminist women, say "gender is all social conditioning".

When your gender identity matches your physical sex, you simply don't notice it.

Another example:
I'm white, therefore I will never be able to know what it is to be colored. What they go though in life.
Therefore you can't expect someone who is cis gendered to understand any one who is TG.
Eventually they will prove that want happens in the womb before we are born, they will begin to understand and accept.

Gender roles are basically decided by society.
Being MTF I think like a woman therefore I want to behave on what is expected be done by women.
If I had been born cis gendered  I would think like a man and therefore I would want to behave on want is expected as a man.

In one society it is common for males to sew. In another it is considered a woman's job.

I did this at a (cis) conference recently.

Hands up everyone who checked to see what gender they were this morning when you woke up? How many prayed that their genitals matched their brain?

No one did, but it sure shook them

Quote from: Cindy on September 11, 2014, 03:55:40 PM
I did this at a (cis) conference recently.

Hands up everyone who checked to see what gender they were this morning when you woke up? How many prayed that their genitals matched their brain?

No one did, but it sure shook them

Good points all, maybe a few woke up!

Cis people don't realise they have privilege - even though they are the ones who make the "rules" about gender and police them.

I think kittylover's thing hits the nail on the head. I get asked in hushed wispers if I'm going to have the surgery all the time when I come out to some people. I actually think i'm going to be non-op.

The concept of gender identity as being a brain sex is as essentialist as penis = man and vagina = woman. While I believe that there is some aspect of gender that is innate, I think it's a small part of what makes up gender. The same applies to sex, while it is biological, a lot of how we view it is socially constructed, hence intense pressure from the medical profession to "correct" intersex children.

I am amazed how much I used to think the way some of you are describing.. I guess before about 5 years ago, I don't think I'd ever heard the word transgender.? I lived CIS (NOT knowing I really wasn't), had all CIS friends, and lived in the CIS world..

Everything you all posted is right.. There is a sort of stigma attached to being trans, well we all know it well.. I feel like I should be able to give some sort of insight to why, but I've just got no clue why this CIS behavior continues and is so slow to change.??

CIS people don't get it, I didn't get it for a long time..? Maybe because its not something you can just describe in a few short sentences, its a very deep and personal thing they have to understand, and most people won't take time to educate themselves, instead they listen to they're CIS buddies, or form opinions based on anything but facts, and the misinformation continues..

You know what, I'm just glad Im on this side of the fence now, and understand, and can love you all for just being you, and love myself for the me deep inside I've discovered..

Quote from: Mark3 on September 14, 2014, 09:13:28 AM
I am amazed how much I used to think the way some of you are describing.. I guess before about 5 years ago, I don't think I'd ever heard the word transgender.? I lived CIS (NOT knowing I really wasn't), had all CIS friends, and lived in the CIS world..

Everything you all posted is right.. There is a sort of stigma attached to being trans, well we all know it well.. I feel like I should be able to give some sort of insight to why, but I've just got no clue why this CIS behavior continues and is so slow to change.??

CIS people don't get it, I didn't get it for a long time..? Maybe because its not something you can just describe in a few short sentences, its a very deep and personal thing they have to understand, and most people won't take time to educate themselves, instead they listen to they're CIS buddies, or form opinions based on anything but facts, and the misinformation continues..

People for the most part are unable to understand anything that they themselves are not a part of and have absolutely no experience with and which makes them feel uncomfortable to think of or discuss. It's the same as trying to describe a hair raising combat experience to a civilian who has never served or been in a war. Might as well not even discuss it because it's like talking to a stone.

Quote from: Mark3 on September 14, 2014, 09:13:28 AM
You know what, I'm just glad Im on this side of the fence now, and understand, and can love you all for just being you, and love myself for the me deep inside I've discovered..

We're on the same page with that Markie Boy!  xox ~Shan~

Quote from: kittylover on September 10, 2014, 09:36:11 PM
cis people don't understand what it feels like to have dsyphoria-to want to get rid of your own body parts
they don't understand that transitioning can make the difference between being deppressed and miserable all the time and having a happy life
they don't understand that transitioning involves much more then just having "the surgery"
they don't understand that what you have down there doesn't make you a woman or a man and neither does whether your chromosomes are xx or xy (or in some intersex people something else)
they don't understand that having people check boxes on forms for "male" and "female" leaves many of us out
they don't understand that our language (and some other languages like french where even objects have genders even more so) ,our bathrooms, ppur schools, and our society are built on a binary that excludes us
they don't understand that we ARE ACTUALLY the gender we feel like whether or not we've done anything medically to transition
they don't understand....I wish I could get them to
feel free to add anything I missed

I feel your pain as I exactly understand how you feel. Unfortunately not everyone is open minded like we'd want them too and it will gradually take them time to learn about us. We need to promote our agenders so we can reduce the suffering of us LGBT folk.

QuotePeople for the most part are unable to understand anything that they themselves are not a part of and have absolutely no experience with and which makes them feel uncomfortable to think of or discuss. It's the same as trying to describe a hair raising combat experience to a civilian who has never served or been in a war. Might as well not even discuss it because it's like talking to a stone.

Or like trying to explain colour to someone who has been blind their whole life.

As someone already said, I think it comes down to having the right body and being treated the right way for your own gender identification that leads to not even realise, or understand that you have a gender identity in the first place.

I m maybe wrong but i think its because cis peoples tell their that or that gender or sex coming from the point of view of the body as a reference wich is a much more concrete and material thing  ,while we do from what inside us , the fellings and so on wich is more fluid or less likely to be either a penis or a vagina boxes or to actually have a material thing to look on for definition , and also the inner part of humans is at times less looked at to define themselves than us on the sex/gender part , and that in their feelings they dont got issues about being in the body they are on the sex part , its in a way like they define  by hardware while we define by software and/or our feelings that we dont like all the hardware or wish it d be different.

Quote from: Sosophia on September 15, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
I m maybe wrong but i think its because cis peoples tell their that or that gender or sex coming from the point of view of the body as a reference wich is a much more concrete and material thing  ,while we do from what inside us , the fellings and so on wich is more fluid or less likely to be either a penis or a vagina boxes or to actually have a material thing to look on for definition , and also the inner part of humans is at times less looked at to define themselves than us on the sex/gender part , and that in their feelings they dont got issues about being in the body they are on the sex part , its in a way like they define  by hardware while we define by software and/or our feelings that we dont like all the hardware or wish it d be different.

Good descriptive analogy set in today's simple tech terms. 

Quotethey don't understand that we ARE ACTUALLY the gender we feel like whether or not we've done anything medically to transition

This so much. I'm so tired of hearing talk about "becoming" a man or a woman through surgeries or whatever. It's fine if a trans person talks about it like that, and I understand that nobody really has all the right words they need, but cis people often refer to us in bizarre simplicities. I don't even understand how anyone gets the idea that you could magically become a different gender by doing some particular thing to your body, like there's a singular line you cross and then your identity is valid. I could staple on some extra limbs and that wouldn't make me an octopus. If I was already an octopus and I needed the limbs, would it kill people to just let me deal and not be nasty about it?

I'm not an octopus and also not very good at analogies.

Quote from: kittylover on September 10, 2014, 09:36:11 PM
cis people don't understand what it feels like to have dsyphoria-to want to get rid of your own body parts
they don't understand that transitioning can make the difference between being deppressed and miserable all the time and having a happy life
they don't understand that transitioning involves much more then just having "the surgery"
they don't understand that what you have down there doesn't make you a woman or a man and neither does whether your chromosomes are xx or xy (or in some intersex people something else)
they don't understand that having people check boxes on forms for "male" and "female" leaves many of us out
they don't understand that our language (and some other languages like french where even objects have genders even more so) ,our bathrooms, ppur schools, and our society are built on a binary that excludes us
they don't understand that we ARE ACTUALLY the gender we feel like whether or not we've done anything medically to transition
they don't understand....I wish I could get them to
feel free to add anything I missed

I couldn't have said it better myself.

It gets on my nerves when cis people judge me for how I look. I was born a boy who looked slightly different than most baby boys and somebody made me this way. I did not have a choice, so you know it really bugs. Not only that, the way society looks at us is wrong. All these things you listed and I listed are not only correct but they also are wrong. What I mean by wrong is the people who think are wrong. Cis people thinnk they know everything but they don't. They don't know what it feels like to feel as if you are in the wrong body.

cis people don't actually have to understand us in order to accept us. all it takes is becoming a natural part of life and society.
in places where gay people simply exist and aren't all that different from everyone else, they don't get all kinds of weird questions, abuse, harassment, accusations of hurting their family, being completely crazy etc. they're simply allowed to exist, and often both loved and valued for who they are and useful abilities.

what we need isn't just to educate cis people about the whole experience. they also need to know that we are normal, this is a thing that we're born with which is not harmful to anyone other than ourselves if we aren't allowed to fix it. and we need to be out there and completely normal in every neighborhood all around the world.
that will take time, but it looks like it's starting to happen.

a major norwegian tv channel has started this work for real this year, by doing a documentary about transsexual people of different ages and on different paths in their lives. it's validating for all of us, and they're portrayed as normal people who become even normaler and happier by getting to live their own life in the way that is right for them. almost 30% of tv watchers have watched the episodes. i'm not one of them because my mother hogs the tv and i don't want to try explaining to her why i want to watch that so desperately. will have to watch online instead.

Quote from: Danny H on September 14, 2014, 12:52:50 PM
Or like trying to explain colour to someone who has been blind their whole life.

actually... and this is something that keeps amazing and puzzling scientists, blind people often have an understanding of color, and deaf people hear sounds in their head.
the basic functions of the human body are hardwired in the brain. all the components needed to observe and interpret the world are there from before birth. the brain even expects to register these things, so when it doesn't, it will start making up things. like phantom limbs. the phantom arm of a person born with three fingers, will often have five fingers, simply because that is what the brain thinks a good hand should be like.

Quote from: Sosophia on September 15, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
its in a way like they define  by hardware while we define by software and/or our feelings that we dont like all the hardware or wish it d be different.

no, it's like how most people ask whether that's a samsung or hp laptop, while tech enthusiasts will ask what's inside it.
i do believe that gender is created by how different brain structures work together to form a person's sense of self.

male and female identity software require different hardware in order to run smoothly. when the assigned gender identity doesn't work and runs into problems like doubt, thinking it should be the opposite sex, depression because people use wrong pronouns or because they are excluded from a group with the same hardware, it should be taken as a sign that a different software is needed. install a trans gender identity, or even better the opposite identity. for those who are typically binary at least.

scientists have already managed to prove that sexuality is in a specific part of the brain, and they have also found a way to test for androsexuality in men and women. the exact same part of the brain gets active in the exact same way when it registers male pheromones (those would also be produced by a trans man on t), in both gay men and straight women. i don't think they asked if anyone was actually bisexual, they tend to skip this information, but they would probably also react the same way.

I feel you, I really do.
I had a biology teacher a few years back who constantly stressed that you were either male or female depending on whether you had xy or xx chromosomes and that you weren't the other, and that really made me sad especially since she was telling a story about a transgendered student who tried to tell my bio teacher that she was a guy inside and the bio teacher just completely denied him and it made me really sad.

Quote from: PastyPrincess on October 21, 2014, 11:51:51 PM
I feel you, I really do.
I had a biology teacher a few years back who constantly stressed that you were either male or female depending on whether you had xy or xx chromosomes and that you weren't the other, and that really made me sad especially since she was telling a story about a transgendered student who tried to tell my bio teacher that she was a guy inside and the bio teacher just completely denied him and it made me really sad.

This is worse than sad. The moral equivalent of teaching children that people of different races are scientifically inferior or that women are dumber than men.