I'm a longterm non-transitiong ftm, but I realized that I share some of the problems that de-transitioning people might have.

When I was younger, I blended in with the male groups I hung out with, but when I got older, this became more difficult because now the older groups tend to be less open and more gender rigid. Maybe also because I'm living in a more rural place and work in a more conservative context now.

The result is that there is pressure on me to blend in with female social groups and I really suck at that. I really really suck at that . I can't remember having had any interaction with all-female groups until I was in my 30s so I have zero practice. I read books about "What women think" because I'm so clueless

I imagine this might be the same situation for people who de-transition after 20 years or more (early transitioners), and have spend their whole life in one social setting and now have to change to the other. How do you do it? Do you have similar problems?

I have the exact same problem so I totally understand!

I spent 4 years living as a female and have only been back to being male for a year or two (I didn't pass as male until about a year of detransition, so maybe 5 years as a female then?). And I have no idea how to be one of the guys again, not that I was ever successful in the first place. I was good at being a woman, at least socially. I came to understand how they communicate and they accepted me as one of their own.

I'm getting better with other men. I went on a retreat last weekend and I got to know a couple of the men there. One seemed to be pretty masculine but he took a liking to me and stayed by my side for the trip. The other was a lot like me, very shy and unsure of himself so we got along really well! The key thing that I am trying to keep in mind is that men and women aren't all the same, so there's no point in trying to be someone you're not, just fit in with the girls in the way that makes sense to you.

Quote from: deanh on June 12, 2014, 08:23:47 PM
I have the exact same problem so I totally understand!

I spent 4 years living as a female and have only been back to being male for a year or two (I didn't pass as male until about a year of detransition, so maybe 5 years as a female then?). And I have no idea how to be one of the guys again, not that I was ever successful in the first place. I was good at being a woman, at least socially. I came to understand how they communicate and they accepted me as one of their own.

I'm getting better with other men. I went on a retreat last weekend and I got to know a couple of the men there. One seemed to be pretty masculine but he took a liking to me and stayed by my side for the trip. The other was a lot like me, very shy and unsure of himself so we got along really well! The key thing that I am trying to keep in mind is that men and women aren't all the same, so there's no point in trying to be someone you're not, just fit in with the girls in the way that makes sense to you.

Thank you for your reply, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one.

It's true, when I look at people as individuals, and pick some as friends, I don't have problems with women. It's just the situations where you can't avoid being in all-female groups (in my case). They give me a real headache, and I think I offend people without meaning to, because I'm too brusque and direct, or something.

The problem behind that is of course that I just don't *want* to participate in all-female groups. I feel uncomfortable. I'm bored. I feel like I don't belong, but the social pressure is there and very real, esp in job situations, but also in other environments.

I'd really appreciate advise on dealing with that.

Seriously, nobody is having that problem?

Are you happy living in the rural area or are you eventually planning on moving? Is the job a career or just a job for now? Are you basically stuck in this place for the foreseeable future? Would you not participating in social groups cause drama or problems at work/where you live? I ask all these because I just wonder if you'd not be way better off in an area that was more accepting of gender variance (for lack of another way to put it).

Maybe because I am an introvert I don't give a damn about social pressure. People can pressure me all they want but I'm still only going to do what I'm comfortable doing. Luckily I don't have a job that has unspoken requirements for participation outside that job.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on June 28, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
Are you happy living in the rural area or are you eventually planning on moving? Is the job a career or just a job for now? Are you basically stuck in this place for the foreseeable future? Would you not participating in social groups cause drama or problems at work/where you live? I ask all these because I just wonder if you'd not be way better off in an area that was more accepting of gender variance (for lack of another way to put it).

Maybe because I am an introvert I don't give a damn about social pressure. People can pressure me all they want but I'm still only going to do what I'm comfortable doing. Luckily I don't have a job that has unspoken requirements for participation outside that job.

You probably put the finger on the wound. I don't see myself being ever happy in this place, but I have to stay here for some time.
I'm also afraid that it will be like this everywhere I go. The situation that strangers read me as female, make certain assumptions about my interests, the way I behave, socialize and so on. And that I always have to disappoint their expectations, which then leads to social friction.
As I said, just like during my childhood and teens when I disappointed my mother's expectations, couldn't integrate at all with girl groups and so on.
*I* know who I am, my friends know who I am, but that misunderstanding problem might never go away, which is causing some serious burn-out feeling at the moment. I probably should see a therapist about this.

Therapy might help. The thing is (and this is something I had to get cozy with), society is so ingrained with male and female (and nothing else in between). From the moment of birth a gender is assigned and then kids learn what is male and what is female from their parents, from other kids, etc. It would be nice if that evolves and people learn to accept that not all males may look "standard issue" and vice versa. In the meantime though, that still leaves the issue of people's perceptions. You can't control other people or what they think. You only have control over you.

There were points in my early life where my mom and I butted heads about me not being feminine, not liking stereotypical female things, etc. So I know how that is to. But I'm pretty stubborn when it comes right down to it so that probably played a part in leading me up to where I am now.

There are certain situations where I'll play along now. Obviously any time I have to deal with anything legal (drivers license, etc.) or anything medical I have to play along. But some medical people now I have told the truth to and they don't seem surprised or put off by it. The uniqueness of my own situation (which does include some physical stuff) kind of made it so that if I was truthful about it, it made it easier. Some professional/work situations I don't stop being myself but obviously they think I'm female. In other social situations, I'm much more comfortable about just being me and it doesn't bother me anymore that people might get some weird impression or something. For me, that was the goal I was shooting for though. Other people's misunderstandings I think would only effect me if I had to interact with them on a regular basis (like the situations you seem to be in) and knowing me, I probably would just make it clear to them that I'm not "typical" ... I don't like whatever it is they're doing/participating in ... thanks for thinking of including me, but no thanks.

Being stuck in a rural area is a bummer. But I can tell you that it's not like that everywhere. If you go to a larger city, there's a lot more potential to meet people who aren't so black and white, lots more activities, etc. 

I'm new here so I hope my ignoring of the scary warning "this topic hasn't been replied to in thirty days" thing is not going to be a bad thing.
I am glad you posted this topic because this very clearly sums up my situation also except I don't live in a rural area.
I don't understand female groups, don't like being in them, and don't relate well. I try and come off as phony .
I think the only time I felt comfortable was in the military where no one expected me to be feminine.

Thank you for replying. I still find very few trans guys who can relate to that. Most are more like: "I have a hard time relating to men socially" etc.

Yeah, when I was a kid and could pass as a boy (took my older brothers clothes all the time). I had no problem fitting in with the boys until someone outed me as a girl.
As an adult it just weird to be around women groups. I get annoyed with so much chatter less action.

  well, yes.
It's also driving me insane that women expect me to talk indirectly, and read to their minds. I'm not supposed to say directly what I want, and on the other hand I'm supposed to know what they want, but they won't say it directly, even when I ask them several times.
It's becoming more difficult every year because as you said, when you're younger you can pass or nearly pass.