I am currently putting a lot of thought into the idea of binary privilege... I think it exists, it certainly explains a lot of the tension between the binary and non-binary parts of the trans community. I believe it exists because we live in a world that places more worth on identities that fit the narrowly enforced narratives of binary identities, we see it when women benefit from benevolent sexism and when men are punished for not fitting a standard narrative of masculinity. Now this privilege works regardless of whether you're cis or trans - if you fit within the existing narrative you are less likely to be punished by kairarchial cistems of control.

Obviously being trans is something that goes against the cistem... But, because we all know at some level that fitting in makes you less of a target, we now have an assimilation narrative that permeates the trans world where blending and fitting in is not just seen as a good outcome, but the desired one. How often do you here chatter where people are actively being judged on their ability to fit in to the cistem?

Yeah, it happens all the damn time.

Trouble is, if you are non-binary and/or gender non conforming, you don't fit any of those narratives. Trying to navigate a community infused with a binary assimilation narrative is actually quite toxic if you don't fit neatly, I've noticed countless little micro-aggressions that make it very easy for non-binaries to appear defensive. I've also noticed binary identified individuals who appear to feel threatened by people who don't fit those narrow binary definitions that seem to be held in esteem (obvs the true trans and HBS mob are an extremely militant version of that way of thinking).

Thoughts?

Sure, let's throw up another term or definition to divide us. 

Conflict between binary and non-binary has already been flagged as a problem, all I'm doing is applying some radical feminist critique as to the reasons why it might be. I'm not claiming it's right, or telling people how to think, I'm trying to build a discussion about something that is an issue.

I'm not sure if you're right or wrong but I see what you're saying. I feel you need to be careful how you apply it. You bring it up in quite a few threads and it sometimes seems more divisive than explicative, almost like you're throwing up your hands. Can you apply it to propose solutions? If not, is it doing any good?

I remember the Beatles writing in a similar context, "if you go 'round carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow."

If you're sure of your theory, then now is the time for education, not criticism or blame.

I truly hope you'll take this as an attempt to help and not as mere criticism.

I define myself as  a pre-op bisexual  MTF transgender 90% want-a-be binary little red book carrying 60's radical hippi Jesus freak who's not going to make it with anyone any how,, so where do I fit  in  the cistem. I say hey Jude just let it be all you need is LOVE

Well acknowledging that it exists would be a start, but at this point I can't say with certainty that it's absolutely a thing. More people need to talk about their experience and if those experiences back up what I've been saying then we can think about moving forward.

I want to get a conversation going about this, to add more voices to it and then try and find a way forward. 

I'm sure there certainly is privileged involved as it's harder to be understood, accepted and/or get proper medical treatment as a non-binary (at least I assume this).  Personally, I don't feel threatend or upset by the idea of non-binary individuals and their identity.  I will say that it confuses me at times, but personally I'm a binary who hates the enforcement of gender roles in general.  I just wish we could all be accepting of each other's identities and desires rather than dictate how other's should feel which happens in both camps way too often.   Still, I confess that I don't understand non-binaries as well as I would like as it's often that their are many diverse feelings and it differs from person to person.  Because of this, I'm sure I have said things that were ignorant or catered stricly to a binary audience, but I try to learn as I go and reduce my ignorance when I mess up.

I don't understand the conflict.  We are all gender variant with common needs and goals. 

I initially ID'd as non-binary, but after some serious soul-searching with a clear head and estrogen in my veins, I discovered that I was actually pretty darn binary.  I still think androgyny rocks.

And I don't feel privileged in any way.  In fact, the opposite.  Last I checked, one of the last things you'd ever want to be in this world is transgender.  I guess it's better than being dead, and I'll take that.

Please understand that when I talk about privilege I'm talking about systems which grant groups and narratives preference. Being trans absolutely puts us all at odds with the cistem, but I also know that historically the medical community has definitely placed greater worth on trans lives and narratives which fitted into narrow heteronormative definitions of gender.

Like I said I'm trying to start a discussion around the topic, with a hope of moving things forward.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 22, 2014, 06:56:05 PM
Like I said I'm trying to start a discussion around the topic, with a hope of moving things forward.

People ARE discussing it. You keep discounting what is said.

This topic is being watched VERY closely.

Clarifying points of misunderstanding is not the same as discounting an opinion.

There is nothing like binary privilege out there. People are treated the same or doctors face malpractice and legal entanglements. There was no binary privilege on my Ambulance, Helicopter or any Emergency Room I ever worked in. I have never seen anything closely resembling special care for binaries. Where this binary privilege idea came from is anybody's guess and has no merit at all. What next? People who eat creamy peanut butter get preference in treatment over those who eat chunky style?

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 22, 2014, 07:14:26 PM
There is nothing like binary privilege out there. People are treated the same or doctors face malpractice and legal entanglements. There was no binary privilege on my Ambulance, Helicopter or any Emergency Room I ever worked in. I have never seen anything closely resembling special care for binaries. Where this binary privilege idea came from is anybody's guess and has no merit at all. What next? People who eat creamy peanut butter get preference in treatment over those who eat chunky style?

Jessica,

Do you think access to hormones, Srs and many other things that gatekeepers try to keep from us is as easy to access for non-binaries as it is for binaries.  Discrimination doesn't always have to be as draconian as not giving somone cpr, sometimes it could be a matter of access to care which can be quite as lifesaving for many of us (it was for me).  Think about it this way.  There are so many roadblocks in the life of a trans person, you don't think fiting the binary model doesn't make social acceptance and understanding easier as well as starting a transition and making progress in it.  It's almost like someone born into wealth saying that it was just as   easy for the poor person to start and grow their business as it was for them.  Sure, the rich man had roadblocks and may have worked for their sucess, but their is a "privledge" that may have made it easier for them to suceed.  Doesn't make them a bad person, nor does it make us in the binary camp bad either.  But there must be acknowledgement that it does exist.  I can't speak for non-binaries and they probably have better points than I but I would urge you to really consider it before saying it doesn't exist. 

Quote from: learningtolive on September 22, 2014, 07:36:14 PM
Jessica,

Do you think access to hormones, Srs and many other things that gatekeepers try to keep from us is as easy to access for non-binaries as it is for binaries.  Discrimination doesn't always have to be as draconian as not giving somone cpr, sometimes it could be a matter of access to care which can be quite as lifesaving for many of us (it was for me).  Think about it this way.  There are so many roadblocks in the life of a trans person, you don't think fiting the binary model doesn't make social acceptance and understanding easier as well as starting a transition and making progress in it.  It's almost like someone born into wealth saying that it was just as   easy for the poor person to start and grow their business as it was for them.  Sure, the rich man had roadblocks and may have worked for their sucess, but their is a "privledge" that may have made it easier for them to suceed.  Doesn't make them a bad person, nor does it make us in the binary camp bad either.  But there must be acknowledgement that it does exist.  I can't speak for non-binaries and they probably have better points than I but I would urge you to really consider it before saying it doesn't exist.

My anology wasn't stated in the best way, but my point is sometimes people are in a more favorable position or have more resources to their disposal than another group.  Doesn't make the person in the privledged group bad, but it can make them privledged.  I think my econmic background made my life easier than it could have been had I come from a poorer background and I feel the same way about being binary.  I esily got hormones, and acceptance outside my family has been easier than it would have been had I not fit into a binary label. 

Thank you for your insightful comments 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 22, 2014, 07:14:26 PM
Where this binary privilege idea came from is anybody's guess and has no merit at all. What next? People who eat creamy peanut butter get preference in treatment over those who eat chunky style?

I'm new to this forum, so I'm not sure what the "unwritten" rules are, but I'm massively shocked to see someone (least of all a mod) be so dismissive and derisive of other people's experiences. I am literally having to pretend to be male identified at the moment in order to get treatment for my dysphoria, because non-binary identities are seen as less valid. How can you not see that as a disadvantage?  Every time I fill out a form and there's a box next to "F" and a box next to "M" and there's nowhere for me to put my little tick, I am reminded that society doesn't believe I exist. I have been excluded from trans spaces before because I was seen as "not trans enough"! A binary identified person saying binary privilege does not exist is EXACTLY the same as a cis person saying trans people are not discriminated against, or a white person saying racism is a thing of the past. So yeah, I'm shocked that a fellow trans person could be so blinkered, and I'm even more shocked that, as someone of stature in this online community, you would see the struggles of a whole section of that community as comparable to a food preference. Particularly as this is in the gender studies section, even if you disagreed with a point, I would have expected a (frankly) more grown up response.

I normally close with ciao peeps, but I'm feeling decidedly less cheerful than that right now
Tee

Quote from: TeeBoi on September 22, 2014, 08:56:05 PM
Every time I fill out a form and there's a box next to "F" and a box next to "M" and there's nowhere for me to put my little tick, I am reminded that society doesn't believe I exist. I have been excluded from trans spaces before because I was seen as "not trans enough"! A binary identified person saying binary privilege does not exist is EXACTLY the same as a cis person saying trans people are not discriminated against, or a white person saying racism is a thing of the past.

I used to check both boxes, but the plight of some NBs is well stated here.   As a transwoman, I certainly don't feel privileged at all for more or less fitting into the binary, but I think it sucks that you have been shat upon by the "more trans than thous", of all people (who should know better).   I used to think a non-binary ID had the potential for "best of both worlds" and enjoy its own sort of advantages, but now I'm not entirely sure of that.  I can see how cispeople might not get it, but I am shocked that people in the trans community don't either. 

Again, we gender variant people will not achieve our goals in a timely fashion unless we embrace each other.  I don't want to see those who want to hold us back use this apparent rift to their advantage.  Divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book, and if it happens to us, our rights will take much longer to be granted.

Quote from: learningtolive on September 22, 2014, 07:36:14 PM
Do you think access to hormones, Srs and many other things that gatekeepers try to keep from us is as easy to access for non-binaries as it is for binaries. 

Yes I do, but since my OPINION is not with the status quo of this topic MY opinion is invalid. If you really wanted to get people together you would consider and ask the person WHY they feel this way, not vilify them in topic. I do not care what non binaries do or believe because that is their prerogative and kind of what freedom is all about. It is when binaries are accused of being special or privileged that things turn. Enough of the pity party as a lot of us see non binaries with the same access and respect for treatment we binaries have. Both groups have to prove themselves just to get care they need just the same. YOU are placing a division when you say another group has privilege, not me.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 22, 2014, 10:16:15 PM
Enough of the pity party as a lot of us see non binaries with the same access and respect for treatment we binaries have. Both groups have to prove themselves just to get care they need just the same.

Firstly, you seem to be forgetting that the vast majority of "binaries" don't need to seek treatment at all as they're cis. Secondly, it is incorrect that non binary people have equal access to treatment, and it isn't about opinion, it is about fact; I was refused treatment for dysphoria as ftgq (as per policy), and granted access to the exact same treatment when pretending to be ftm. Finally, when discussing the oppression and suffering of a marginalized section of society, the term "pity party" is highly disrespectful (again, you're a moderator, you should be setting an example).

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 22, 2014, 10:16:15 PM
YOU are placing a division when you say another group has privilege, not me.

By that logic, we can blame racism on people of colour because they're "placing a division" when they point it out. What utter nonsense!

Why do you find it so hard to accept that the kyriarchy looks favourably on heteronormative gender identities? Every, and I mean EVERY aspect of our society is dominated by a binary heteronormative narrative. How can anyone deny the inherant privilege that engenders? I think the question should not be if it exists, but rather WHY are we only now starting to talk about it?

Jessica,

No, we are not trying to create a division any more than anyone who recognizes that a problem exists and wants to fix it is trying to create a problem.  The fact is that very, very often, people who don't fit into the standard narrative.  Because I don't always present in a stereotypically "feminine" way, I was denied my HRT letter by the first therapist I saw.  And I do feel unwelcome in a lot of trans* spaces, because we can't seem to have a nice, calm discussion without things turning into a flame war.

I feel like the word "privilege" is not a very good descriptor in general.  Rather, life is simply easier in a lot of ways for binary folks, especially when it comes to accessing medical care and trans* spaces.  I'm not accusing binary identified people as being better, worse, special, or anything else.  I'm saying that their lives happen to be a bit easier than ours-and the solution here is to come together as a community.  This is an important thing to talk about not to create devision but to bring us all closer together, so that we might better understand and advocate for the needs of others who are different from us.  It's not meant to be an accusation at all!  This is meant to be a topic for us to share our experiences and work, together, to expand the minds of people with different experiences.  So please-don't call this a division, because it shouldn't be one.  It's simply another set of obstacles to overcome, and one we think the trans* community should be working to do as one-not in divided parts.