Quote from: Riley Skye on September 21, 2014, 12:22:17 PM
I actually didn't feed the troll, it just struck a chord reading that. I know what internal transphobia is and possibly everyone here. It is something we all need to break out of because we'll be miserable ->-bleeped-<-s. Honestly I felt sorry for the girl since it was painfully obvious she had so much loathing in her. It is  upsetting that so many can hold these views because society tells us the worst thing you can be called is a woman. We are at the lowest according to patriarchy because we go so vehemently against it. So many guys I've seen are so appalled by the idea that they might be perceived as feminine in any slight way. I feel really bad for those with that hate because it is ignorance and fear that we so actively teach.

Well Riley. The whole truth of the matter is that we as humans think we are always right. Right in what we do, right in what path we choose, right about what we think and so on The real truth is that everyone has a right to live their own lives regardless of what anyone else in the word thinks. If I want to go full blown SRS, FFS, all kinds of surgeries to get the perfect female body then that is totally my choice. No one else's. If I want HRT and keep what I got then again, that is up to me. If I want FFS, Breast Augmentation, hips worked on and never take any E, well that is my choice too. Just because someone chooses one path and then puts down everyone else that have chosen different paths, then they are really small minded people.

Don't let people like this get to you. Just let 'em talk and eventually they will talk themselves into a hole that they can't climb out of and lose all, if ever they had any, legitimacy. Don't let anyone bring you down, that we have control over.

Quote from: Jess42 on September 21, 2014, 03:06:25 PM
The whole truth of the matter is that we as humans think we are always right.

This. Before I dealt with this (albeit far more intensely) in transition, I dealt with it for being childfree and living in a certain region where a common icebreaker question was "how many kids do you have?" It was a significant factor in why my social activity was limited to NoKidding! events held hours away - I just got so tired of the fact that every outing became other people declaring that they had the right to debate my own life choices.

Quote from: Riley Skye on September 17, 2014, 12:37:39 PM
So a few days ago on the "transgender support" page on facebook a young trans girl, guessing a teenager, came in and started ranting about how ugly and manlike trans women on the page are. It astounded me how much transphobia this girl has towards her own community. It's an online support group where we are trying to find support and some happiness in our lives. I find that there are some people obsessed with passing, whole sites that tell us passing and going stealth is the key to happiness in our lives. It's frustrating to see such views that some hold. What is most important is that we are happy with ourselves inside and out, it just hurts to see that some people have such views about their own community.

Riley, have you ever thought of PMing this brat? Maybe she doesn't even know what she's doing, although I doubt that's the case. I think it might be worth a try anyway. Some people, transgendered women inclThis is kind of off the subject, but I have a cis girlfriend who calls everyone, including me, dude, in public. I've told her a bunch of times to knock it off with me, but I found out she calls her own mom "dude", so if I'm going to be with her in public, I guess I have to put up with it. She says, Mira, I call everyone dude, even my daughter (she does that too!), and I tried to tell her it's different with me because since I'm transgendered, she's leaving me, her best friend, open to scrutiny, but she can't seem to get the hang of it. I love her like a sister, though, so I grit my teeth and bear it. I have enough confidence in myself that I'm not worried I'll be clocked over 'dude'. Honestly though, I hated the word 'dude' and the attitude that came with it when I was still trying to pass as male. Or if my S.O. ever calls me his, 'old lady' I'll strangle him with my bra-straps!

Quote from: LizMarie on September 17, 2014, 03:23:34 PM
Do you know what's amusing here? Really really amusing and funny?

I suggest anyone really fixated about passing go to a busy mall, sit down, and just watch. Watch the women going by. And not just the young women. Look at the middle aged women. Look at the older women.

If you're honest with yourself, you see a lot of middle aged and older women who look a bit more masculine. And because of this, an older transwoman can actually pass more readily than a younger one.

Now, to be honest, there's a lot to be said for personal presentation.

Here's a photo of me from just the other night, out with my daughter. I was not misgendered once. Nobody stared. Nobody even gave us a second glance. But I wasn't wearing a hot pink miniskirt, bright pink lipstick, or had size DDDDD breast forms either (just my natural A cups).



But a middle aged to late middle aged transwoman has tons more leeway than younger transwomen, who are being directly compared to fresh young vixens at the top of their biological game. Now some of our younger sisters pull this off in spades. There are some amazingly beautiful younger transwomen. But those who don't feel they belong on the Miss Universe stage need to give themselves a break too.

So just stop with the worries and go sit down in a busy shopping mall and watch. Watch all the shapes and sizes, all the women who've got the entire package and all those who don't. And just realize that you fit on that same spectrum and it's ok.

Hi Liz,
   If I saw you in a dress shop, walking down the street or in a department store, I wouldn't wonder if you're a woman, I'd know you are, and you are. I've given the same advice you're giving most definitely used it myself when I first transitioned. It went a long way toward taking my fears of being misgendered, but it did much more than that. I watched how women dressed, walked, spoke with each other and men, and their simple body language and posture. That being said..........I pass, but I pass for many reasons, and much of them demanded and received my attention and hard work. I lost 66 lbs., although I've gained back 13, but it was 28, and I've lost 15 of it again. I've worked on my voice, developed a style of my own in my clothes, don't overdo my makeup, but I nearly always put my face on in the morning and ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, go out in public looking what I consider presentable. If you look at my 'Before and after' post, (Re: The All New 'Before & After Topic (v 3.0)
« Reply #406 on: September 15, 2014, 03:37:25 am) you'll see a huge difference in everything about me from the beginning, and I didn't start out with much of anything to work with. And I began with watching.
However, like the post below, I must take exception with the whole age and passing statement. There are plenty of older transwomen who don't pass because just like younger trans women who don't, there could be any number of reasons that need to be addressed first, such as FFS, weight, giving HRT time to do its magic, learning the art of makeup, clothes, etc. And confidence. The one thing I've seen that can sink even the prettiest transgendered woman is not making eye contact, i.e. "what does she have to hide from me that she can't or won't look me in the eyes?!?!"

Quote from: paula lesley on September 17, 2014, 02:38:14 PM
It is just an age thing. The young do not wish to be old and the old just wish 

Paula, you're most likely young, although I don't really know for sure, but I must tell you....that's such a load of arrogant ->-bleeped-<-e to me, but not for the reasons you assume. The vast majority of us older women who transitioned in their forties, fifties and even sixties, do indeed WISH we were younger, but lots of us wish that because of the years, or for me, decades, that were completely and utterly wasted, with absolutely nothing to show for my time on this earth other than some good songs and excellent lyrics, the vast majority of them terribly sad and for those who knew the real me, very revealing about my transsexuality. I also have no children to love, take pride in or worry about, but I did have three serious suicide attempts, a 12 year heroin habit between 1983 and '95, two prison terms and still slightly visible track scars to feel really joyful, confident and self respect over, lol. Fortunately, I'm actually very happy with the way I look, at peace with who I am now, and the complete acceptance I've received from everyone in my life who matter to me. I guess most of all, I thank God for letting me live long enough to do this, the only thing I really knew that could make survival turn to happiness, and existence into life. Being a girl/woman...Mira






   

I have a lot of internalized transphobia, homophobia, you name it, and it all boils down to poor self-esteem. I think as a child I learned to judge superficially because it was the only way I could rely on being accepted. With this I mean not being accepted unless going home with good grades and feeling like a failure for mistakes, and I also somehow projected me not being accepted by my peers into my looks - big head, big nose. I now realize it had nothing to do with the way I look, but with the deep lack of safety and acceptance I was holding inside me. Others learn your smell. We're animals after all and our intuitions guide us. The weakling is easy prey.

So the way I see it, modern culture is superficial, which supports views that really result just poor self-esteem. I don't know how to cure that. But I know I have to protect myself and my peers from that. And as I'm still building a healthy self-esteem I can only do so much without harming myself. So far I've learned that I can handle being with people with good confidence, whether they pass or not. But I fear of going out myself to try and see if I'm gendered correctly, so of course I'm also afraid of the reactions that others may get. If I'm not aware of their ability to handle it themselves I may not have the strength to stick with them - unless, maybe, we're trying it out together?

I hope this doesn't come out as offensive because that's not my intent. My intent is to increase my understanding of what's really going on. Now I'm looking for more ways to build up my self-esteem so I can be a better person.

Quote from: Agent_J on September 21, 2014, 10:15:55 PM
This. Before I dealt with this (albeit far more intensely) in transition, I dealt with it for being childfree and living in a certain region where a common icebreaker question was "how many kids do you have?" It was a significant factor in why my social activity was limited to NoKidding! events held hours away - I just got so tired of the fact that every outing became other people declaring that they had the right to debate my own life choices.

I faced the fact a long time ago that how I live my life is 100% totally up to me and the choices I make concerning it. The ones that don't like it, or condemn me for it, belittle me, make fun of me, curse me, judge me and all the other crap that arrogant people seem to want to do that are living "perfect" lives can go somewhere and do something with themselves and the horses they rode in on, if they can even get off of their high horses even. But I know people and people have all kinds of little twists and kinks in their lives that they try to hide really good. My house is definitely glass and I don't throw any stones and there isn't one person on this planet that isn't living in a glass house, yet they still throw stones and when the stones get thrown back they raise all kinds of crap.

BTW I know exactly how you feel 'cause I never had any kids either. And that does seem to be a commonality where I'm at too. I just tell people that I never wanted any because I didn't want them to eventually kill me in my sleep. That trips 'em up a little. The looks on their faces is priceless.

I get it. I really tried to put them off it somehow but I found that a lot in the general Scranton, Pennsylvania, region were seriously stuck on that. I can't tell you how many would just keep bringing it up again well after the conversation had moved on, like that they found the fact so personally disturbing that they couldn't engage in conversation on any other topic for hours more. It's seriously tiring to deal with.

Something I truly love about being in the Research Triangle is that I have never experienced that here.

Quote from: Agent_J on September 22, 2014, 03:40:49 PM
I get it. I really tried to put them off it somehow but I found that a lot in the general Scranton, Pennsylvania, region were seriously stuck on that. I can't tell you how many would just keep bringing it up again well after the conversation had moved on, like that they found the fact so personally disturbing that they couldn't engage in conversation on any other topic for hours more. It's seriously tiring to deal with.

Something I truly love about being in the Research Triangle is that I have never experienced that here.

I know Agent_J. It does get extremely tiring. Especially when everyone wants to talk about their kids. That isn't really bad but they end up looking at me like I am some sort of enigma. Wow, you haven't ever had kids? And then it kind of stays there and they pull out all the photos. C'mon, make me feel worst than I did before. Not just Scranton Pa.

BTW, what is the Research Triangle?

Quote from: Jess42 on September 22, 2014, 03:47:15 PM
I know Agent_J. It does get extremely tiring. Especially when everyone wants to talk about their kids. That isn't really bad but they end up looking at me like I am some sort of enigma. Wow, you haven't ever had kids? And then it kind of stays there and they pull out all the photos. C'mon, make me feel worst than I did before. Not just Scranton Pa.

BTW, what is the Research Triangle?

Research triangle is NC I assume.

Correct; the general region of Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill. The name comes from the three research universities in the region (Duke, NC State, and UNC-Chapel Hill, a.k.a. UNC or Carolina - stakes a claim as the nation's oldest public university) and was solidified with the creation of Research Triangle Park, a tech-business park where companies like IBM and Cisco have major presences.

Yep, it's on the top of my list of places to move to. I would absolutely love to get out of Jersey for many reasons.

My only criticism of the area is some of the transition providers, and a lot of that seems to have to do with fitting into certain pre-conceptions of what is the "right" way to transition that they hold - happen to fit them and problems are few, but woe unto they who doesn't fit enough!

Miranda, I do agree with much of what you say. What I was trying to say, and perhaps I said it very badly, was that I feel (personal opinion!!) that older transwomen do have more leeway than younger ones. And yes, I am very aware that some older transwomen do not pass but a lot of that is, like you mentioned, really re-learning to be female through and through, yielding years of male training to our feminine selves, letting go of habit and becoming the woman we would rather be. My only intent was to say that I believe the "door" to pass as an older transwoman is a bit wider and more forgiving than that of a younger one. Otherwise I completely agree with your points!