The simple reason you may have been denied treatment for transition is based on WPATH SOCs. It was not me setting these policies, but a world wide group of medical professionals. I am not trying to say this is right or wrong how the SOCs were written. I am only trying to say that their is no privilege as providers go by the SOCs, that's all. They may deny care by the participant failing to meet the criteria currently in place. People here are saying they should be included, well, ok I agree with that. I have never said they should not. I am just saying policy may be blocking treatment, not identifying as one class or group or another. Treatment is based on current care protocols, period. Do you disagree this is the real issue (the SOCs) and not special favor to one group or another??

Well.  The SOCs (inadvertently) favor some people over others.  Which is what I mean by privlage.

They do not favor some people. If a person does not meet the criteria, no transition. It is not my fault at all as I had no input into the SOCs. It is just providers following a set protocol. Take it up with them, but don't say I am privileged because I meet the criteria and follow the published, current protocol.

But that is what privilege IS!  It is fitting into these protocols.  Nobody ever once said you were responsable for any of this!  Of course they favor some people over others-their policies are obviously make it so people like me are going to have a harder time getting a vaginaplasty than you.  You aren't being denied care because you fit into their system.  That is a privilege I do not have.  And yeah, the SOCs need to change.  I'm not saying any of this is your fault, just that it exists.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 22, 2014, 10:16:15 PM
Yes I do, but since my OPINION is not with the status quo of this topic MY opinion is invalid. If you really wanted to get people together you would consider and ask the person WHY they feel this way, not vilify them in topic. I do not care what non binaries do or believe because that is their prerogative and kind of what freedom is all about. It is when binaries are accused of being special or privileged that things turn. Enough of the pity party as a lot of us see non binaries with the same access and respect for treatment we binaries have. Both groups have to prove themselves just to get care they need just the same. YOU are placing a division when you say another group has privilege, not me.

Jess,

This isn't a fight and I'm a little surprised I'm seeing terms like "vilify" and "pity party" in your response.  Your opinion is your right and it doesn't make you invalid.  I just wanted everyone to consider a different perpspective as the challenges for some of us in the community differ based on own situation.  You don't have to agree with how I see it.  Personally, I have little doubt that access to things such as hrt is much different hrt can be very different when you are binary and non-binary.  That isn't vilifying, it's recognizing that there is a systematic approval of one narrative over another in order to get treatment approved.  Sure, this isn't true of all providers, but it does happen often.  And the fact is privledge is a term often misunderstood.  It's not meant to be negative against those with it, but rather having an upper deck that can be beneficial or more advantagous to a situation.  I don't see how that is vilifying.

Anyway, it's not a fight and I'm leaving this topic because I think things are going to take an unintended turn and that wasn't my intention.  If you don't see it the same way as I do, then that's your opinion and right (which I disagree with but never stated was invalid). I just can't agree with you on this topic as I do think my somewhat fitting the trans narrative was beneficial to getting treatment so quickly and may be why others had to fight just to get hormones (and I've seen it before.   Let's face it, in terms of our treatment in the world, there is a lot of work to be done in many places.  Because of that, I would agree it's better to come together than tear each other down.  There is no point in that, but recognizing diversity and unique challenges among those in the same community doesn't have to be a divisive issue.  At least that's how I see it and is just my opinion. 

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on September 23, 2014, 12:23:18 AM
But that is what privilege IS! 

I do not agree with this term at all. Privilege would occur if you and I met the criteria, but I got the surgery because I could afford it and you could not. THAT is privilege. I do not have privilege if I follow the criteria and meet it where you do not for the same surgery.

Privlage, advantage, whatever you call it.  Doesn't it seem a bit unfair to you that I do not fit that criteria?  That whomever wrote these rules happened to give you an advantage I do not have?  The advantage of being able to get surgery because you meet those standards?

This is like a white person telling a black one that racism doesn't exist.  I'm sorry, but this system is unfair to me.  That's MY experience.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on September 23, 2014, 12:35:23 AM
Privlage, advantage, whatever you call it.  Doesn't it seem a bit unfair to you that I do not fit that criteria?  That whomever wrote these rules happened to give you an advantage I do not have?  The advantage of being able to get surgery because you meet those standards?

This is like a white person telling a black one that racism doesn't exist.  I'm sorry, but this system is unfair to me.  That's MY experience.

How is it an advantage to follow the rules? I have no advantage, I am working for it. If the system is unfair to you change it, don't say I have an unfair advantage is all.

I guess being in the states most can get a gender marker changed with just a letter does now make them privileged class over so many who had to spend thousands of dollars to get the same done.

Its as I said before if everyone wants to whine over binary, non binary, or what ever label you wish to place on your self for just trying to make a argument then you all deserve the conflict.

I and many have been fighting for gender identity rights for years so today and tomorrow thing get better as a community.

Maybe we need to drop all the labels and talk as one community.

Tired of my ball is better then your ball.

Oh for some who can not determine between GM actions or forum member, this is a members rant on how childish this is becoming.

Isabell.....
 

I'm out of this topic.  It's amazing how much ignorance I'm finding on a forum for people who are some of the most understood in the world.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 23, 2014, 12:28:28 AM
I do not agree with this term at all. Privilege would occur if you and I met the criteria, but I got the surgery because I could afford it and you could not. THAT is privilege. I do not have privilege if I follow the criteria and meet it where you do not for the same surgery.

The primary definition of privilege is "a right or benefit that is given to some people and not to others".  This definition is appropriate enough, but let's not forget that this is the education/gender studies forum, so (as I think someone has said already) we are using the academic term, which has been widely assimilated into lay discussions of social inequality.

I don't think it's appropriate that this topic is getting flamed simply because you don't understand the language we are using.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 23, 2014, 12:37:25 AM
If the system is unfair to you change it,

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO!

The first step to changing an unfair system is POINTING OUT THAT THE SYSTEM IS UNFAIR. This thread is trying to do that very thing, and yet you keep popping up trying to shut down/derail the conversation, and denying the problem exists.

Hmmm, I am contemplating (quite seriously) to start kicking my lazy ass out of comfort zone and get a Master's degree in gender studies...

so, let me get this straight because I'm only 11 months in. cis are  more privileged then gays, gays are more  privileged then bisexuals who are more privileged then  transgenders FTM's have it easier then MTF's with the effects of HRT, trans binary's are more privileged than trans non- binary's, wow, you need at least a masters degree  to understand this and all I wanted was to look great in heels and an expensive dress.

Your sarcasm is appreciated.

Quote from: TeeBoi on September 23, 2014, 01:09:20 AM
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO!

The first step to changing an unfair system is POINTING OUT THAT THE SYSTEM IS UNFAIR. This thread is trying to do that very thing, and yet you keep popping up trying to shut down/derail the conversation, and denying the problem exists.

I am posting as a member. If you have a problem with that their are ways to properly report it. The public forum is not one of them.

Thank you.

I am the most privileged of all, I'm just a KAT. I am the one and only uniquely me.


That is about the end of that advantage.

There is a binary privilege actually, The world expects you to have/be a boy or a girl, giving any other answer isn't even thought of. It definitely matters to getting treatment from what most all of you have said.


As to following rules, there used to be a rule about women and voting. Sure people had to follow it, but it needed changing. It would never have changed if some women didn't demand to have the same right as men, or the rules about which drinking fountain to use. If those rules which were actual laws can be changed, so can the SOC. I agree that you have to show how it is unfair in order for it to be changed.

I also think that the post op regret part would rise dramatically if there were no therapists involved or RLE of a sort.

The WPATH standards of care is set up to address the needs of binary trans people. Non-binary trans people were not on the minds of WPATH professionals when they authored them or when they treat them. Therefore, non-binary people have more trouble getting treatment.

OK, for those who would claim that this ISN'T a privilege, then what is it?

What word do we use when one group has easier access to treatment than another? If we're not to use the word "privilege" to refer to that, what word do we use?

Are we battling over semantics or trying to get to some point? Because if former then I can easily throw in some other terms to discuss and provoke and by the end of the day, there will be some warnings issued, +/- assigned, lots of confused people and satisfied trolls.
But... let's not, ok?
Binary privilege... to me it derives from the same source as cis-privilege, those are two sides of the same coin. If I am not mistaken, there are no cis-people who would at the same time be also non-binary, yup? They are are all strictly into binary, male and female, born that way and sure about their identities. And from here comes that many faceted cis-privilege towards transgender population, which by its existence (both - binary and non-binary trans), per se, defies the binary and cis- world as the only alternative and the associated privilege. Oh sh... I said that again.
But, I still find it quite ironical that while being a part of population whose existence comes in terms with binary perceptions of gender... same people would still fight tooth and nail to upkeep it... I just dont get it.

Cis privilege absolutely results in trans lives being viewed as other, this has never been in doubt. But at the same time, the binary thinking that underpins cis privilege treats binary identities as more valid. Gender non-conforming cis individuals face harassment based on the fact they don't fit into a binary narrative.

Our trans lives have to go through (mostly) cis gatekeepers, who are almost always binary identified, which means that they can and do place more validity on binary trans lives than non-binary. People have shared their experiences of this happening to them. Is it genuinely that hard to believe that binary thinking doesn't permeate the trans world just as it does in the cis? We don't exist separately from the rest of the world, we're a part of it and dominant cultural narratives run through every facet of society. 

No ones life is any less valid than anyone else's, being binary is no worse or better than being non-binary. Not being the same =/= being less.