Hmm if this is South Africa I'm not sure of the legality?

Quote from: katiej on September 25, 2014, 07:41:48 PMAnd a few months ago you were worried about not passing.  I guess that's over now, huh? 

Wait, what!?  If that profile pic is anything to go by, I am amazed the trip to the club was not just to wind down after an evening walking the runway.  ... No... Passing should not be a concern.

*looks for that other thread*

Quote from: Delsorou on September 25, 2014, 08:00:09 PM
Wait, what!?  If that profile pic is anything to go by, I am amazed the trip to the club was not just to wind down after an evening walking the runway.  ... No... Passing should not be a concern.

*looks for that other thread*

I know, right?  From what I can tell, she's gorgeous.  Apparently she's already having to fight the guys off with a stick.  Me?  Not so much.

The number one thing I try to avoid is drunk guys in groups.  Usually the younger they are, the more trouble they can be.

One drunk a*hole I can handle.  "You need to seriously work on your pickup lines, dude."
Often if there is two of them, one probably has more sense than the other.
One in a group of three might have enough sense to assert himself and tell the other two that they're being idiots.
Group of 4 or more?  Avoid at all costs.  More often than not when I hear a story of a transwoman being beaten (or worse), there was a group of 4 or more men involved.  This turns into a pack mentality, the alpha-dog asserts himself and the others try to jockey for status within the group.

Jill, I've heard the same thing.  There's something magical about a group of 4 guys -- especially drunk guys -- that elevates the possibility for danger.

Quote from: Alice Rogers on September 25, 2014, 02:03:36 PM
Really? Isn't it just the guys fault for making assumptions based on societal norms?

No,  it's on you to disclose before., I forget exactly what the charge is called,  I think it's called 'gaining sexual intimacy through fraud'

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 26, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
No,  it's on you to disclose before., I forget exactly what the charge is called,  I think it's called 'gaining sexual intimacy through fraud'

We have one in the U.S. also, but it is never used. Something like "Fraud under the guise of deception for personal gain". Something like that anyway. I have never seen a case filed yet, but damages can be awarded for personal injury and mental anguish and suffering. Weird world huh? 

I saw a case last year in the UK where as I recall,  they were given a suspended jail sentence and 'Community service'  - labour.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 26, 2014, 02:36:19 AM
No,  it's on you to disclose before., I forget exactly what the charge is called,  I think it's called 'gaining sexual intimacy through fraud'

That's ruined my morning.  That ->-bleeped-<- has seriously GOT to change.  Thanks to bringing this to our attention anyhow.

Melanie, I'm really sorry to hear about your crappy experience with those disgusting schmucks.  I have nothing else to add besides what others have said here (especially the comments on passing).

Take care of yourself, hon.

Quote from: Jill F on September 25, 2014, 09:03:49 PM
The number one thing I try to avoid is drunk guys in groups.  Usually the younger they are, the more trouble they can be.

One drunk a*hole I can handle.  "You need to seriously work on your pickup lines, dude."
Often if there is two of them, one probably has more sense than the other.
One in a group of three might have enough sense to assert himself and tell the other two that they're being idiots.
Group of 4 or more?  Avoid at all costs.  More often than not when I hear a story of a transwoman being beaten (or worse), there was a group of 4 or more men involved.  This turns into a pack mentality, the alpha-dog asserts himself and the others try to jockey for status within the group.

Thanks for posting that, it's definitely something to keep in mind when going out.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on September 26, 2014, 02:51:12 AM
they were given a suspended jail sentence and 'Community service'  - labour.

Ewww, not good.

I think I will get a T-shirt made with "Warning-Enter at your own risk, not responsible for damages". 

Quote from: Jill F on September 25, 2014, 09:03:49 PM
The number one thing I try to avoid is drunk guys in groups.  Usually the younger they are, the more trouble they can be.

One drunk a*hole I can handle.  "You need to seriously work on your pickup lines, dude."
Often if there is two of them, one probably has more sense than the other.
One in a group of three might have enough sense to assert himself and tell the other two that they're being idiots.
Group of 4 or more?  Avoid at all costs.  More often than not when I hear a story of a transwoman being beaten (or worse), there was a group of 4 or more men involved.  This turns into a pack mentality, the alpha-dog asserts himself and the others try to jockey for status within the group.

"Once You take out the leader, You have to contend with one or two enthusiastic wingmen. The last two guys... they always run." (c) Jack Reacher
I have done this pre-everything and I can assert that this works. Now, with strenght and aggression loss, it has become more tricky because I would really need to make that decision (and it is always imperative to avoid physical confrontation at all costs - it is imperative), but if pushed into corner... yeah, I can still punch and kick hard (and have waaay much sense in me because T does not blur my thinking). Of course, judging from OP's avatar (and melanie, I told Ya that You are gorgeous months ago... You did not believe) - she would have a hard time in hand-to-hand with grown up guy - still the afore-mentioned quote also stands for target priorities once You decide to pull out Your pepper spray and use it - You should pick our targets wisely (threat, distance, other factors), or else Your risk being intercepted and Your spray taken away from You and used against You.

I don't know what is available in SA but here there are self defense classes specifically for women, taught by women. They can involve weapons or not since a weapon is not everyone's cup of tea (and may not be allowed in a club). They do things like Krav Maga which is Israeli martial arts. There's also a class where they teach you how to use a pen similar to how one would use a kubaton. Most importantly there is situational awareness. I'm not saying go out picking fights but you should be prepared to defend yourself as your last resort.

Hey Guys I'm the friend C. Firstly thank you guys for all being so supportive! Its the first time something like this has happened to us. We are usually very safe and go in large groups but this time Mel and I got separated from the rest as we parked a bit further down from our friends(we went in two cars). Secondly the situation started innocently enough but as soon as I saw and heard the malicious intent of the one guy I tried to get Mel out ASAP. Yea she did have something to drink but I think everything just happened in the heat of the moment and she kinda just went with it. Not her fault at all, its understandable. The guys shouldn't bug her again as I made it very clear I was not impressed. If they do harass her or threaten her I will be there and I will make sure that the university and the  LGBTIA society I am part of steps in! We don't take these situations very lightly! I am still heart broken that it happened to Mel and that I couldn't prevent it from happening but she's safe and much more street wise after this experience.

Quote from: Celestial on September 26, 2014, 09:48:58 AM
she's safe and much more street wise after this experience.

That's all that matters! I have watched her grow here and consider her one of my kids.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 26, 2014, 02:55:15 AM
Ewww, not good.

I think I will get a T-shirt made with "Warning-Enter at your own risk, not responsible for damages". 

I want this shirt! 

Melanie, I hope things are settling down. You've already heard enough about staying out of trouble, so I'll just say good luck in the future! Don't stop having fun. Don't let this spook you into becoming an introvert. I hope you're able to just learn, adapt, adjust, and keep on having fun. You're beautiful and you deserve to be you

Thanks for being there for Mel, Celestial. It's great friends like you who help us find ourselves and learn about ourselves safely.

Celestial, you're a good friend.

As transwomen we weren't socialized with the same safety-conscious limitations that cis women were.  We grow up with the idea that we can go anywhere, do anything, and still be safe.  It's a lesson to be learned.

Krav maga sounds fun. 

It's great you have good friends looking after you. Good friends are very important.

I was in a situation at the start of the year. I'm pre-op full time stealth. I live by myself I was very depressed. It was New Years decided to go out and have a few drinks at a local bar and forgot about my life I also was hoping to be kissed, I was lonely, so I dressed up. I Had two drinks and was pretty drunk. I ended up chatting to this guy.  Then ended up going to the beach watching fireworks and kissing him. Anyway that part was fun but it ended up getting out of control and he found out I was trans after trying my best to keep him away from between my legs. I was lucky this  guy didn't hurt me we just parted ways. I then called a friend and got a lift home.

I learnt a big lesson never to put myself in that situation again.  I'm in a lot better place now and have more inner strength.

When your pre-op you need to be careful.

Personally pre-op I would always disclose before any intimacy, unfortunately we live in a world where most people feel deceived and angry if they get involved with us and then discover we are trans and pre-op the chances of them finding out are significant.

I know it's not fair or the way the world should work but I don't want to get beaten into pulp or worse.

I've been attacked on the street as a guy before I came out for no apparent reason, giving strangers a reason feels like tempting fate.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 26, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
We have one in the U.S. also, but it is never used. Something like "Fraud under the guise of deception for personal gain". Something like that anyway. I have never seen a case filed yet, but damages can be awarded for personal injury and mental anguish and suffering. Weird world huh? 

Yeah, kind of like not parking your mule on the street with horses. Or riding a donkey after midnight and so on. Laws on the books in some places but never enforced. Even anal sex in some places is illegal and can incur a fine or a jail sentence. Thank god that one's not enforced or I would be making visits or thrown in jail myself depending on who was in the "illegal position". Never top for me with guys.

I'm with Antonia on this one. I always disclose, either then and there or from afar depending. I definitely don't want any surprises and possibly become just another statistic.