Hi everyone !
I'm a FtM,on HRT and I'm having my chest surgery soon.

Through,I present as androgynous by choice ( I did when I was pre-everything too,it has always been my aesthetic),sometimes more on the traditionally female or traditionally male side. I don't feel like clothing has a gender and basically wear everything I think is cute,shopping only in the male section makes me sad when I see the great outfits I can have if I just pick what I like best everywhere. I guess I'm a fashion student for a reason,haha !

I've faced a lot of ->-bleeped-<- when I came out as trans and a lot of people told me that I was just being stupid/an attention whore because I,according to them,"am not even trying to look male anyways". Most of my friends refuse to call me by male pronouns. I do understand that a cisgender guy who looks like me is also going to be misgendered by strangers so I accept it when it's people I don't know,but my goddamn friends...
It's also a huge issue when dating : I'm attracted to femininity but don't care about gender ( if there's a word for this let me know !),yet I am always either too masculine or too feminine for the people I like depending on their own sexual orientation and I'm not willing to be with someone who can't see me as a male. I've never had a relationship and I'm turning 24 soon.

I would like to know if there's other people like me,because I really feel alone in this and have been told I'm a "disgrace" by other trans people quite often,so "real life" support groups happened to be a no for me.
Sorry for any vocabulary issues or misspellings,English is not my native language but I tried my best !

Don't worry, Victor, you're not alone! 

I'm sorry your friends won't respect your gender simply because of how you might dress.. But they're just ignorant. You're right - clothes don't have a gender. Gender identity isn't an outfit that you wear - it's deeper than that.

I too have witnessed trans men deny another trans mans identity because he was "too feminine".. and it's horrible because you would expect them to know better.

To be honest, that sort of belief was part of what has kept me in the closet for so long, and why I had such a long phase of denial - I thought I couldn't possibly be a man because I have always been feminine... It wasn't until I realized the obvious - that cis men can be feminine and not have their gender identity questioned, and that it doesn't make sense that trans men are expected to be completely masculine while cis men are free to be as feminine as they please without being labelled a woman.

I haven't yet figured out how to make other people realize how it's unfair, but I try not to worry about it too much. I know who I am, and no matter how many people deny my gender and insist I'm just a woman trying to be a "special snowflake", it doesn't make it true. Whether they like it or not - whether they believe me or not, I am a man - a feminine man who just so happens to be trans. (or perhaps that should be a trans man who just so happens to be feminine?)

Victor
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Glad you joined our family.

Safe walk on your path.

Izzy

Victor, I applaud you for your bravery in the face of animosity.  I've been very lucky in the support my friends have extended to me, I don't think I would have had the courage to come out if they hadn't been so accepting.  Its great to hear that you're doing what is best for you, despite the reactions of those around you. 

I'm also working up the courage to wear whatever I want and not just the tiny little wardrobe of masculine clothing I've accumulated because I like some of my other more feminine clothes still.  (Its harder for me to wear more feminine clothing now than it was to start wearing masculine clothing in the first place).  Its awesome to hear that you're wearing what you want for the most part. 

So basically, kudos

As for orientation: look up the definition of gynephilia.  Its attracted to women or femininity; I've heard it both ways.

Victor, welcome to Susan's! I'm sorry that your friends are giving you a hard time.

I've been grappling a lot with my ftm-ness and the implications of "transitioning". I have a strong desire to transition and to be perceived as male, to just blend in 100%. But at the same time I hate this idea because it means I'll succumb to the myth of the gender binary. By seeking to pass and to go stealth, I'll reinforce the (mistaken) idea that there are only two genders and we have to basically choose one and then present ourselves accordingly. So personally, I'm really conflicted in this regard and I wish I could see and accept myself as male (and be accepted as male by others) without the (perceived) need of blending in (which in absence of a male body for me basically means presenting as masculine as possible).

So I think it's awesome that you are staying true to yourself and don't let others dictate how to present. It absolutely doesn't mean that you're not male or not "male enough to be ftm" - that's just <insert expletive here >!

Sorry for the rant though, I think I digressed from the topic of presentation a little :-[

littleredrobinhood : It's exactly the same thing that kept me from starting my transition earlier,for years I was just convincing myself that I was a woman with body dysmorphic disorder and that my need for a male body was just a side-effect,that's only when I recovered from it that I realized the two weren't tied together. I also saw some guys on youtube who were confortable with doing traditionally feminine things like wearing makeup without identifying as women,helped lots.

Amathy : Thank you very much !  I'd say,it's hard enough to be trans so wearing whatever makes you happy is important.
We're going to face animosity anyways so might aswell give unaccepting people a "good" (in their eyes it seems to be) reason 
I looked up gynephilia and it fits,now I'll have a word to define my sexuality when asked,haha.

adrian : I agree with your views on gender,I believe gender is a scale,100% male or 100% female might exist but not as often as one might think. There are cisgender guys who aren't male-presenting and noone is going to tell the difference between you and them at the end of the day,so I think someone can still go stealth even if not 100% male presenting. Facing the same issues as a cisguy who looks that way that is ! Like,most people who didn't know me pre-everything think I'm a gay guy because according to them you gotta be gay to look androgynous while being male (  ) and that's the end of it. ( which I find ironically hilarious since I'm actually not,well maybe gay for cute guys with long hair and make-up but I disgress,haha)

Thank you Izzy for the links and for the wishes 

Welcome to the forum!
How far have the hormones masculinised you? I imagine that after top surgery you will have less issues with presentation. Sad about your friends, but if they can't accept you for who you are it might be time for new friends.

Thank you ! 

I've been on T for 5 months now,my voice sounds male 95% of the time (didn't think that would happen so fast so I'm glad !) and I'm starting to grow thicker body hair. No noticeable changes in the fat distribution department but at 98 lbs for 5'3 I wasn't expecting much.
As for my friends,I'm thinking of moving to another town ( or country if I get a scholarship abroad) when I'm further in my transition so I wouldn't have to deal with people who knew me "before" anymore.

VixtorHbx, glad to hear you processing nicely in your transition.  Will you able to have the subcutaneous "keyhole" procedure when you have top surgery?  Who is your surgeon? Good luck with your surgery.

My surgeon is Dr Bouillot and since my chest is barely there anyways I'm having peri-areolar ( is that whay you call keyhole ?) surgery !
Thank you very much,I hope I'll have a beautiful result 

Hi VictorHbx, this is a very meaningful topic for me because it makes me both glad and sad at the same time.

I am happy to know there is a guy like me who doesn't conform especially regarding appearance like clothing and it makes me sad because it reminds me of the many years of my life I actually wasted being a shut-in contemplating about the supposed 'rules' of the binary and avoided going to the doctors who deal with LGBT thinking that I wouldn't even fit in because I wasn't going to force myself to be a "typical" male by wearing those boring, almost colorless male clothing and blending in and then some.  They could have helped me change my gender with simply taking my word for it but now I have to pay so much to get additional documents changed!

So, I am the same way and you're definitely NOT the only one. I was even told from a surgeon who deals with transgender patients in a consultation that I didn't look 'right' for a male because I was too 'feminine'...

I personally avoided making friends and still do (let alone being in a relationship which is out of my league) for this very reason of them won't be seeing me for the MALE gender that I genuinely identify as.

Hi, Victor!

You have the right to decide what you are and to be what you are.  Don't listen to anybody who tries to tell you otherwise.

I have a hard time understanding people who in effect say, "There are certain rules you have to observe while you're breaking all the rules."

Quote from: VictorHbx on September 11, 2014, 06:20:31 PM
Sorry for any vocabulary issues or misspellings,English is not my native language but I tried my best !

No need to apologize for your English.  Language is my specialty, and there's nothing in your post that would make anybody suspect that you're not a native English-speaker.  If you hadn't told us, we wouldn't have known.  You see, you outted yourself unnecessarily!

Best of luck to you!

Hi Victor

I got same problem exept my friends do accept me, and there d*ckheads not accepting you.
-
I have a pretty androgynous face and I also like the unisex style. I like wearing long boths and nailpolish at times. for me my problem beside lazyness and normal worry for the consequenses of the look I have, is how im being seen. I say I dont care about passing and im not trying to pass, but in fact I get very annoyed when I dont pass and people misgender me. So im kinda afraid looking even more femenine. I think I will wait to I am able to grow a proper beard and then start using more stuff like make up and so. but I am from a rather hairless famely so it takes a long time for me to grow a beard. its been 2 years and it only started alittle =/

Hi,

I have the same story sometimes, although with me it's mostly that the way I act (not dress ) isn't manly enough. £'ve gotten comment from other trans people that I should try harder to act 'masculine' whatever that's supposed to mean anyway. Also now I've started growing my hair out again I'm getting comments about that too. I don't  really see the problem,  plenty of guys who have long hair, wear whatever clothes they want, wear makup and nailpolish. Why shouldn't we be allowed to do that?
It can be so silly to me, why would anyone care that I crochet and knit?

I've also ran into a particular problem with trans people that they start defining my gender as androgynous or non-binary despite that I clearly define my gender as simply male. Not that I mind people who do feel they're non-binary, it's just that I don't.  But because I don't act a certain way these people feel they can lable me something they feel more comfortable with. I guess it annoys me more when trans people do this, because it comes as a suprise and it hurts more because when I'm at my supportgroup I don't expect people to treat me like that.

I have decided to just do me, after all my transition isn't about trading one forced gender expression for another. I'm transitioning into me.

The way you are is fine and your problem about attraction and gender is something you are not alone in dealing with. I've had trouble with matching up how I present with who I'm attracted to in a way that makes sense to others. It's really hard to live up to everyone's expectations about what kinds of people go together, and to keep in mind that we might be expected to look a certain way to pair up with certain types of people.

Hey there, I'm actually kinda similar to you, in a way! I'm FtM as well, and although I don't really go for androgynous, I am prone to love taking extremes from both genders and mixing them, which I think might weird some people out. For example, I've been trying to grow out my beard (sort of accidentally shaved it off the other day...  ), but I also still kinda enjoy having skirts, lipstick, and certain shoes. I really feel like clothing is too heavily gendered, and my personal feeling about it is that it would make sense for me to like these things since I'm read as male full-time now and I got to wear them beforehand, if that makes sense. Like, well hell, now that everyone knows I'm a man... skirts are really comfortable, haha. Anyways. Yeah. I can relate

Quote from: solexander on September 25, 2014, 09:10:28 PM
Hey there, I'm actually kinda similar to you, in a way! I'm FtM as well, and although I don't really go for androgynous, I am prone to love taking extremes from both genders and mixing them, which I think might weird some people out. For example, I've been trying to grow out my beard (sort of accidentally shaved it off the other day...  ), but I also still kinda enjoy having skirts, lipstick, and certain shoes. I really feel like clothing is too heavily gendered, and my personal feeling about it is that it would make sense for me to like these things since I'm read as male full-time now and I got to wear them beforehand, if that makes sense. Like, well hell, now that everyone knows I'm a man... skirts are really comfortable, haha. Anyways. Yeah. I can relate

yeah same with me. I did not wear typical "female" clothes before but as I started transitioned and being viewed as a man I felt much more drawn to the clothes you could wear as female. it just theres so many more options and colours than male clothing.

Quote from: Natkat on September 26, 2014, 02:24:07 PM
yeah same with me. I did not wear typical "female" clothes before but as I started transitioned and being viewed as a man

Oh GOD yeah! It's like, it's not the femininity of it I enjoy, but rather just that it's clothes I like and I feel like it shouldn't have anything to do with my gender at all so it's nice to be able to have both.