Hello everyone! 

I've decided on an open topic to encourage discussion on how you explain your non-binary identities to others.

Do you explain your identity in simple terms? Or do you use complex words? How does this pan out? 

This question encourages discussion on whether simple vs. complex approach is more suitable when confiding in others about non-binary identities. Do you throw lots of information at them or slowly explain little by little until they can digest it?

Do you find it is easy or hard? Do you get defensive if people do not understand right away? Do you understand if they need time to adjust to understanding or accepting views that a quite different from what they are used to?

Lastly, I understand that there will be people who will most likely never understand despite how much explanation and education is done, it is understandable after all... Nobody can really know what another person goes through unless they have been through it themselves. Even then, the situations and feelings involved won't always be similar.

That being said, even if people do not understand, I hope that they will be able to at least, accept your non-binary identity and treat you with respect (just as you would with their identities, cis or otherwise, I would hope!)

I am admittedly biased when presenting this question. I am a huge fan of keep explanations fairly simple. I stick to common terms that people understand or at the very least, have heard of before. If I have to explain a bit of my history in order to show how coming to my current identity makes sense, I do not mind this at all - as I have probably blabbered my story all over Susan's by now! 

First example: I came out as non-binary to my friends on Facebook. I detailed right back to high-school (many of my FB friends knew I was struggling with depression and identity issues then) and it had a positive outcome. Some of my friends commented on the status and said they were happy for me and that you don't always usually figure yourself out right the first time. That sometimes, it takes a few tries. And it's true! I thought I had myself all figured out when I was 18, ha, boy, was I wrong!

Second example: I explained non-binary (more specifically, being genderless & sexless) to my best friend, she was curious and although she doesn't quite understand my desire to be physically sexless but she accepts it and didn't judge. I basically told her that you have male and female on a line and in the middle, there is androgyny. I present as androgynous but my gender identity is neither male, female or androgyne. I'm well aware gender is more than a simple line but I did not want to risk confusing my best friend as going into the route of gender being as vast as the universe (my favorite line ever) would most likely confuse her, rather than educate her.

Has anyone had any experiences in explaining non-binary identities to others? Positive or negative, it doesn't matter - if you feel it will contribute to the topic, by all means, type away, my dear friends! Just be sure to respect one another and have fun!

Jacey 

I usually keep it simple when I'm talking to people. If I hear someone misgender a non-binary person that I know they know about, I politely correct them and leave it at that. For my own gender(s), I just tell people I'm a guy because I am and I have trouble even explaining it to non-binary people.

It depends on who I am talking to. If they are a close friend or family member, I am more willing to have an extended conversation on the matter. If they are an acquaintance or relative stranger, they get a short and sweet answer that goes something like this: "Gender is a spectrum, with male on one end and female on the other. I'm in the middle." And leave it at that.

For people that are close to me, I take more time to explain. I may start of with the bit about being in the middle, but then answer their question and fill in the blanks. The biggest one I get is, "Doesn't that just make you a tomboy?" I usually respond by explaining that a tomboy is still female, and that identity doesn't fit, like a coat that is to narrow across the shoulders. I can wear it for a little while, but it starts to be uncomfortable and restraining. I also take that opportunity to explain my dysphoria. Bear in mind though, this detailed of a conversation only happens when someone is close enough to me to want to ask good questions.

To be honest I haven't really tried explaining things to anyone other than my partner and another close friend, but they're both non-binary as well so it's not exactly challenging. As for the wider world, I'm happy to be called 'she', want to be seen as female bodied, but just don't identify as a binary female, I have a tendency to wear my queerness in terms of how I dress, my hair style etc and switch between being very femme and very tom boy while usually existing in a somewhat androgynous middle ground.

Quote from: EchelonHunt on September 28, 2014, 09:50:16 AM
I present as androgynous but my gender identity is neither male, female or androgyne.

Quote from: Sarah7 on September 28, 2014, 12:13:12 PM
I tend to disclose very limited amounts of information about the subject. I prefer to let people get used to me and draw their own conclusions.

Quote from: Rowan on September 28, 2014, 12:26:55 PMIf they are an acquaintance or relative stranger, they get a short and sweet answer that goes something like this: "Gender is a spectrum, with male on one end and female on the other. I'm in the middle." And leave it at that.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 28, 2014, 01:13:13 PM
To be honest I haven't really tried explaining things to anyone other than my partner and another close friend, but they're both non-binary as well so it's not exactly challenging.

I am not trying to stir anything up I just have a thought to express.

As the quotes show above there seems to be a reluctance to talk about being non binary. Most said they really don't talk about it or go into detail with anyone. This is exactly the reason our two communities do not understand each other. I came to this topic hoping to see how others explain it so I could understand it. Not one post was clear or had any information I could use to figure this out. I am trying, but if it is not talked about amongst yourselves how in the world can I get a grasp on it. Do you see the problem? I will watch this topic and hope someone gives me the information I can use to understand your community. Until then I am still in the dark. I am trying though. 

We are such unique individuals.  Many of us are somewhere on a non linear spectrum where it does become a challenge to find solidarity and support for a transition that others cannot clearly understand. 

I know I am not a man and also do not claim to be a woman but "girl" suggests elements of growth that I do relate to.  Sometimes I consider the word hybrid but usually define myself simply as a transgender person.  If asked, I explain my transitioning is toward the feminine but really working to be true to myself.  I likely appear androgynous to some and that's a fine term too.  I acted like a boy and man and really never felt like one.  Now i feel able to embrace elements of masculinity and femininity within myself.  I do feel like a more feminine person and still want to leave the door open for personal growth and descriptors that I may yet want to own.  It's a journey and I enjoy the ride even without a distinct destination.

Often for me the reasons are practical and pragmatic.  Had my transition taken place as a teenager without multiple decades of male socialization or perhaps if I was completely passable I would feel different.  But i honor my past and future by including all of my life.  I never want to live in fear of being outed and one way is to be forthright about being trans and queer.  Gender and gender roles have a cultural weight that now starts even before birth with ultrasound announcements.  Those cultural expectations get shaken up by people like us and I want the world to get accustomed to a greater depth and breadth of human identity and experience.  We're here, we're queer, get used to it!

Quote from: Tessa James on September 28, 2014, 02:58:31 PM
We're here, we're queer, get used to it!

I am trying to do that. I would not put so much energy into asking if I was not trying to grasp the definition or feelings of non binaries.

I suppose I will just have to give up. I have tried to understand, but no one has given me a clear picture. I suppose this means our two communities will live in confusion of each other as usual. I will no longer ask for help with this. 

Jessica

Because the non binary identity is so distinct from a non binary identity folk from either group will struggle to understand the other.  While I applaud your efforts and hope that you continue to read and to try to understand our lived experience this will be a challenge.

For non binaries the only identity that is relevant is our own.  Our journey is for self understanding, acceptance and usually, but not necessarily for expression.  We do not accept and implicitly reject the arbitrary, reductionist and simplistic binary categories available as options or self descriptors of gender in cis society because they don't capture or allow us to fully describe ourselves.  To merely use the descriptors that are used to identify as a male or as a female seems inappropriate, clumsy and a forced fit when you may be a combination of these or of other descriptors.

To the OP's question I explain that for me  while every non binary identity will usually differ by individual, non binary folk select identifiers or descriptors that seek to express who we are without concern as to whether they only come from a blue or a pink bucket.  They could come from both, from neither or from elsewhere.  Similarly a non binary identity could be fixed, blended or fluid.  We don't try to overthink this.  We feel our way.  We seek and adopt an identity which fully or at least best describes who we are and our lived experience.  It is more complex than choosing option A or option B but that is my reality.

Safe travels

Aisla

Jessica, it can be helpful to understand, but I don't think it's critical. I just lump it in with other things that can seem to only be understandable from the inside, monogamy, single sex attraction. I think it's more important to be accepting that others truly are that way and likely not by choice. The hardest for me is to understand those who can take HRT or leave it alone. The way I'm wired I'm a raging mess and of suppressed anger and anxiety without it. But, I fully understand that not everyone is like me, needing one hormone and suffering from the other.

So yes, this topic seems to generate some special intrigue and perhaps some consternation too.  Do we need to fully understand a person to accept their reality is very different but as valuable as our own?  It has taken me forever to get this far so late in life.   I do not know how to explain the feeling of being non gender or gender free.  We can't expect it would be easy for people to relate to where any transgender person is coming from, especially when we have vague goals such as personal growth, acceptance, congruity, and fulfillment.  As the love songs say, you can't make someone feel love if they don't feel it themselves?

I don't feel like a man or a woman.  I often do feel feminine and really enjoy the luxurious sense it gives me.  Being feminine feels genuine for me.  Presenting ambiguously or androgynously seems to be getting more common in the states and gives me a sense of freedom.  Who needs the fashion and gender police?  It's OK with me if people don't know, can't tell or are confused.  I feel clear about being myself.

Far easier to simply say I am a woman or man but only if it's true for you eh? 

So does it help to think of non binary as a mix, an amalgam, a jumbled set of life's ingrediants that are still fluid, shifting and uncertain...... ??

I'm out of this and any further conversations until this is resolved to my satisfaction.

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 28, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
Is it a requirement that we teach binaries who can't figure something out?

I was only hoping to understand it so I could help others with accurate and educated knowledge. No one learns anything without questions. Part of me wanting to fully understand it comes from my career as a Paramedic. When we were being instructed, for example, in the cardiac system I wanted to know everything possible about it and how it functions. That made me far more efficient in dealing with those types of emergencies. I am intelligent and understand most things quite well, thank you. To insult my intelligence is not a way to bring us together. I was really hoping to learn from all of you to be clear and knowledgeable. I am sorry by asking questions it makes me look stupid and unable to grasp the concept of non binary. How else does one learn though? 

Jessica, how do you describe something that falls out side the norms of conventional cis sexist binary thinking? How can I explain that while I feel feminine, I don't view myself as being masculine or having male aspects to my being. Already I've stepped out of a simple 2 dimensional gender spectrum, and the social norm that is binary thinking often finds the concept of a spectrum hard to deal with. I had my fill of explaining why I wanted to transgress the concept of the cis binary back when I originally transitioned, and given that I'm happy to be seen as female bodied and be referred to as she, it's just easier to navigate the world like that. This could well change, I'm still exploring things.

As it has already been said, understanding something is not a prerequisite of accepting it as valid.

I accept totally all non binaries, but part of me would like to understand. I have never said I do not accept non binaries. It is like when you meet a new friend though. You want to know all about them, hope, dreams, goals, etc. That is all I am saying. I wonder why my being curious is looked at as some attempt to discredit, put down or undermine?  To me non binary is simply something I have never been expose to and I would like to see the thought process and body image issue's they face.

Quote from: Sarah7 on September 28, 2014, 04:15:47 PM
This is meant to be a safe space for non-binaries to post about their experiences and the ways they communicate. I should be able to do that without being told I'm doing it wrong.

I never once said you were wrong and YES I did not see that particular post. People are free to be who and what they are. I was just hoping to understand it better. Would your community like that approach or instant judgment? I am trying so hard to be respectful, thus the questions.

Sarah, I just read your post and got a lot out of it. Thank you. That is all I was asking for. 

Jessica I did not mean to imply that you didn't accept non-binary realities as valid, just that for a lot of non-binary folk while we know what we feel and experience, that it's then a struggle to find the language to adequately explain that externally. This is an example of how binary thinking affects the ability of non-binary individuals too, it limits all of us, even if we exist outside it, just because we are immersed in it from birth.

At ease troops I am leaving this to you now. I still value all of you and call you friends and family. 

I'm out of this and any further conversations until this is resolved to my satisfaction.

Most of my friends have seen my transition to girly, which I usually present as.
"So you're a boy who wants to be a girl?"
"Well, I identify as a girl, most of the time, despite my anatomy. Sometimes I feel like a boy, sometimes I don't feel like either, but you can call me Jayne for simplicity."
"... Wha?" or "Oh, I get it (no, I don't)."
Ok, maybe I haven't had to best luck explaining it.
But with my close friends, if they ask me how I'm doing, I'll let them know if it was a William day, or Elliot day, or Jayne day. They seem to be understanding a bit more with time.
Today, my friend noticed my voice was higher and asked me if I was on estrogen...
After explaining that's not how it works...
She kind of started to understand three days ago, when we talked last was a William day,
and today is a Jayne day (:
BAH! hehe

Er... This may just be me, but I think if one understands one trans person, then they understand one trans person (binary or nonbinary). What it means to be trans and what it means to be any particular gender(s) or none is pretty personal and depends on the individual. The same terms mean different things to different people.
If that makes sense.