I am currently studing single subjects of religion, sociaty & history in 1 class up untill december.
My class is very mixed and while we got some cool people we also got many people which is kinda ignorant.
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I am not out being trans, but I am out as an activist and if people ask me I say im a trans activist but I dont think anyone see me as anything beside a "femenine" guy.

anyway. theres many annoying comments specially when we speak of sociaty class.
there are 2 of the people who belive being homosexual is a choise or something you are raised into, and that they are not normal people, then there is one guy who keep telling me story of this "extreme person" he saw on tv which was both transexual and tarrot-card reader.
and then there is paticular one guy which say alot of stuff from calling our sociaty a "estrogene sociaty"
where women values are put in the front. to calling gender neutral kindergardens "a reason to corrup the sociaty and wasting the resources on making men in dresses which nobody will marrige and women which can't do anything. women are usunally not very included in the discussions but when they are they usually agree that girls play with barbie and men play with cars and it just natural how we naturally work from the natures side.

Short said my class is very hetronormative which cant think much outside the boxes.
I try to ignore it but I also get pretty annoyed somethimes and feel like I just want to scream in there face, "it all bull->-bleeped-<- I been a girl and I been a man, and outside these boxes and this is bull->-bleeped-<-!"

but I dont feel like outing myself specially because I try not to let me being trans getting in the way of getting an education. I think some already see my views as being extremistic so I dont feel like making more trouble for myself.

So... any good advice how to deal with ignorant classmates are wellcomed.^^

p.s. some of our teachers are also pretty ignorant, one are a femenist and she is trying, even thought she dont really know anything of transgender to still include the topics, while the other teachers dont want to get invold in such topic.

In normal situations I would say to try and suck it up and let it slide.

However, it's a class about religion and society, and...if others feel entitled to broadcast their opinions on these topics, I don't see a problem in you calling them out and fighting them. The key is to do it with grace. You will not convince them of anything. You will instead be giving the witnesses of your argument food for thought, so that they can consider both viewpoints and decide which one is more sound to each of them.

So whatever you do, try not to sound accusatory or resort to name-calling (e.g. "homophobe" or "misogynist"). Try to be objective instead of emotional, and give sources or statistics to back up your arguments whenever possible. You don't have to out yourself, you can just say you're a trans activist or that there are people in your life whom you feel strongly protective of.

Did that idiot actually call it an "estrogen society" It's called gynocentrism.

Luca has the best advice for the situation. Best to not let their ignorance undermine your education! Don't out yourself, but be true to your beliefs and be prepared to defend trans and gays in class discussions. You can be persuasive in a calm tone of voice, let them yell all they want as it will only show the rest who the ignorant ones really are.

throw statistics at them!
at least 5% are gay/bi
around 1 in 100 is intersex or close to that, i think...

and throw some dolphins, elephants, snails, penguins and other natural wonders at them too.
add in that butterfly that was perfectly half male and half female.
scientists had been waiting and hoping for that wonder to happen.

mosaicism, chimerism, xx men and xy women, xxx and yyy, all those wonders of nature!

why don't we speak of it? is it shameful?
or is it just so weird that the heteronormative world view has no place for it?

are we going to kill all those deviations from the norm, just like we kill all the children with down's?
humanity has not evolved at all, it has learned nothing from wwii.


i'm feeling sorry for that one closeted gay in your class. they must be feeling awful.
statistics says he or she is there, if your class has at least 20-30 students. (ah, wait. maybe that is you...)

ask your class, would they say the same things about a black guy, if there was one in your class.

To continue what Taka said:  Scientist have observed homosexual behaviour in many animal species in the world, but there's only one animal species that's been found that exhibits homophobic behaviour, can you guess which one that is?   Incidentally, much the same can be said for trans* folk and transphobia

Getting your arguments straight by reading up on articles about gender would be great too.  I stumbled across this one recently which explains really concisely about how innate gender identity is.  Also I'm finding that asking people the question "why is it so hard to believe that some men are born with female brains / vice-versa?" tends to shut a lot of people down in a heartbeat because whenever people think about it, it's kinda illogical to think that 100% of men are born with male brains and vice-versa.

Also get your feminist arguments straight in your head hun, so whenever people start to play the anti-feminism card, you have your own ammunition ready to fire back with (remember, feminism stands against sexism, not against men).  I've been really into Laci Green lately (as some of you might have noticed with me bringing her up every 5 minutes lol ), and not so long ago she did a couple of great vids explaining why she's a feminist.  It's a great summary of the subject so definitely worth a watch:




Basically, make sure you have the ammo ready when you need it by making sure you're educated on all the facts and research yourself.  Explain yourself rationally and calmly to them.  Even if you don't get through to them, you'll at least make your case to those watching the argument from the sidelines.  Hope that helps you out in some way hun, and good luck <3 *hugs* <3

Quote from: Taka on October 02, 2014, 05:55:45 AM

around 1 in 100 is intersex or close to that,
I heard it more or less simular to the number of redheads there exist, I have no specific number and I dont think you can give one cause its more a spectum rathern than a to be or not to be.
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why don't we speak of it? is it shameful?
or is it just so weird that the heteronormative world view has no place for it?
we usunally erase part of the story which we dont want to focus on.
it happents alot on the textbooks, Now homosexuals are abit included but only when its to point out how "intollerant we once where and how tollerant we are now" its remembarance politic* (no idea of the english word, erindringspolitik?) I think the main issue is the teachers role, there suposed to be this "neutral person" which must include every opinion but still say what is right or wrong. obviously thats imposible. The teacher cant be 100% neutral yet, they have are still to include sexist and transphobic viewpoint because the freaking "freadom of speak" should make space for every opinions.
-__-

are we going to kill all those deviations from the norm, just like we kill all the children with down's?
humanity has not evolved at all, it has learned nothing from wwii.

actually we had this debatation about forced sterilisation and how it now had became illigal, I told the teacher and the class that it had still been in practise to sterilize transgender people to this year, but my teacher said it was something ells. he also said he did get the whole abortions of children with down syndromes. we are originally not suposed to have debatations, they dont want it, But when we are to express our opinions it typically the hetronormative ones so if I answer back im the one which seams to be "the trouble maker" making things difficult, meanwhile someone ells are just answering the obvious.

Quote from: KiraD on October 02, 2014, 04:39:48 PM

Also get your feminist arguments straight in your head hun, so whenever people start to play the anti-feminism card, you have your own ammunition ready to fire back with (remember, feminism stands against sexism, not against men).  I've been really into Laci Green

Basically, make sure you have the ammo ready when you need it by making sure you're educated on all the facts and research yourself.  Explain yourself rationally and calmly to them.  Even if you don't get through to them, you'll at least make your case to those watching the argument from the sidelines.  Hope that helps you out in some way hun, and good luck <3 *hugs* <3

I feel abit troublesome with femeninsm because honestly I dont know alot about it, and my activism is focused on trans issue and not femenism, so it kinda wierd fighting this getting the "femenist label on me, however I am not a muslim either but I been defending the muslim discrimination so same-same .

I love lady green, only issue is I am not living in amarica so I cant use the amarican statistics, I can still use the one here, and we have also debated it a couple of times, yet it all comes to the old classic agument that "its there own fault"

why are women paid less? "there not interesteed in taking jobs with alot of money"
why must transgender be forced sterilization "its there own choice to transition and they must pay the prize"

anyway.. it really annoying aguments, and the reason I consider comming out would also be to break down all there agument simple by being me, but at the current moment I know there are going to come some femenist at the school for monday and talk, I have no idea which group they are but I hope they are the type which also have knowlegde of transgender and intersex issues, I really beg for a debate with this invold. and hope it could do so much =)
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invite me to stir up some real trouble in your class?

i seriously don't like most of today's students.
they go mainstream, only repeat what the text book says, never ask the teacher relevant questions.

what's the point of studying a subject, if not to learn how to ask the right questions?

you're supposed to doubt all that you have ever learned, until it's proven to be kind of likely.
and then try to falsify it yet.

the second most important question you'll ever ask is "why?"
the most important question is "why not?"

you will find no good answers to anything, you will be no scientist or researcher, unless you ask why not.

i'd ask all those questions.
it would infuriate the bad teachers, and i'd still do it.
simply because i have no interest in following a steam of fish into the midst of hunting killer whales.

humanity will keep running towards its own ruin with this fear of considering all other options before the apparent one.

i'm not even asking for debate, just for the teacher to give some good arguments for his views.

Quotewhy must transgender be forced sterilization "its there own choice to transition and they must pay the prize"

why don't we change the rules then?
other countries don't have this practice.
can't we even consider the possibility that our country is in the wrong?
let's stone the unfaithful wives while we're at it. their choice to be unfaithful, so they should at least be forced to pay that price, yeah?

Quote from: Taka on October 03, 2014, 05:57:08 AM
invite me to stir up some real trouble in your class?

i seriously don't like most of today's students.
they go mainstream, only repeat what the text book says, never ask the teacher relevant questions.

what's the point of studying a subject, if not to learn how to ask the right questions?

you're supposed to doubt all that you have ever learned, until it's proven to be kind of likely.
and then try to falsify it yet.

the second most important question you'll ever ask is "why?"
the most important question is "why not?"

you will find no good answers to anything, you will be no scientist or researcher, unless you ask why not.

i'd ask all those questions.
it would infuriate the bad teachers, and i'd still do it.
simply because i have no interest in following a steam of fish into the midst of hunting killer whales.

humanity will keep running towards its own ruin with this fear of considering all other options before the apparent one.

i'm not even asking for debate, just for the teacher to give some good arguments for his views.

why don't we change the rules then?
other countries don't have this practice.
can't we even consider the possibility that our country is in the wrong?
let's stone the unfaithful wives while we're at it. their choice to be unfaithful, so they should at least be forced to pay that price, yeah?

it's sad but true, the school system is not much about learning it more about how to get good grades,
repeating memorising, and being on good terms with your teachers opinion.