This may seem like a weird question but I don't know, I've always wondered about this: are some trans guys kind of sexist/misogynistic? I ask this because I feel like this is my case and I don't know if it's because I'm trans or it's just me, like maybe because I'm not attracted to women (nor men for that matter, I'm asexual) or for some other reason.

But don't take me wrong, I don't mean thinking that women are "inferior" and should stay in the kitchen and all that crap. That's not the kind of sexism I meant, what I mean is thinking that men are the "default" / "normal" / "desirable" gender. Like for instance, everyone assumes God is male, right? the Bible says so although no one knows for sure but that's still how it should be you know? imagine a female god lol. Or with most films and tv shows, the main protagonist/hero is usually a guy, it's Spiderman not Spiderwoman for a reason! And it's not necessarily about having a dick, that's beside the point. I'm talking about maleness in general, being a man.

Why would anyone want to be female anyway? I understand "feeling" female like cis-women and MTFs do therefore having no choice, but it's kind of sad that they weren't born/gave up being male. I'm not trying to be offensive, just curious if this line of thinking is just me or other trans guys think like this too. Not sure if most bio men do but I guess so. In my case I believe that men and women deserve the same rights and everything but at the end of the day the better ones like God should be male.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 04:16:11 PM
This may seem like a weird question but I don't know, I've always wondered about this: are some trans guys kind of sexist/misogynistic? I ask this because I feel like this is my case and I don't know if it's because I'm trans or it's just me, like maybe because I'm not attracted to women (nor men for that matter, I'm asexual) or for some other reason.

Yes, some trans* guys are misogynists - as are some trans* women, cis men and cis women. 

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 04:16:11 PMBut don't take me wrong, I don't mean thinking that women are "inferior" and should stay in the kitchen and all that crap. That's not the kind of sexism I meant, what I mean is thinking that men are the "default" / "normal" / "desirable" gender. Like for instance, everyone assumes God is male, right? the Bible says so although no one knows for sure but that's still how it should be you know? imagine a female god lol. Or with most films and tv shows, the main protagonist/hero is usually a guy, it's Spiderman not Spiderwoman for a reason! And it's not necessarily about having a dick, that's beside the point. I'm talking about maleness in general, being a man.

Most Neo-Pagans that I know see "God" as female, but that's besides the point.  It's obvious that most of this is societal - yes, it's sexist, even subconsciously, IMHO.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 04:16:11 PMWhy would anyone want to be female anyway? I understand "feeling" female like cis-women and MTFs do therefore having no choice, but it's kind of sad that they weren't born/gave up being male. I'm not trying to be offensive, just curious if this line of thinking is just me or other trans guys think like this too. Not sure if most bio men do but I guess so. In my case I believe that men and women deserve the same rights and everything but at the end of the day the better ones like God should be male.

I don't even have words for these comments that in any way constructive or polite.

Remember to keep all responses in line with the TOS. Thanks!

now I'm confused, I thought God was female

Misogyny exists in all crowds. There's no point in debating its merits. There will be people who are offended when you say sexist stuff. There are people that will laugh. There are people that won't care. It's a matter of opinion.

I apologize if this has offended some people, honestly this is not meant to be an insult towards women in any way. (I've been on this board for a while now and I'm sure people who know me know that I'm not a bad person and have honest questions.) In fact I feel bad about myself sometimes. I don't think it's a very sexist way of thinking but still to some degree it probably is and that's wrong. I understand that, even though other times I think I'm right. Hmm so basically, this is not something trans guys usually think, but rather something that exists in all kinds of people in general? (not sure if women truly think like that though, why would they think bad about themselves? - well not bad, but you know what I mean).

Btw I didn't know some people believe God is female, is that really true? That's funny, I mean it's fine but still, in my mind it just feels so wrong to even consider the possibility that God would be anything other than male. :/

Why do you think "the better ones like God should be male"? What do you think makes men a better fit than women?

People are people. The fact that you are proud of degrading anyone who identifies strongly as female is a horrible and warped sense of thinking. This is a support forrum...and this is such an unsupportive thing to say to anyone who identifies as anything but on the far masculine end of the gender spectrum.

QuoteI don't mean thinking that women are "inferior" and should stay in the kitchen and all that crap. That's not the kind of sexism I meant, what I mean is thinking that men are the "default" / "normal" / "desirable" gender.

This is a distinction without a difference. If it's more desirable to be a man, then it's less desirable to be a woman. This could only be because women are inferior to men.

(Big, big hint here: they're not.)

The fact that "God" is believed by so many (at least of the monotheistic persuasion) to be male is evidence of misogyny, not proof that misogynists are correct.

Uhh not trying to be a D!ck.. But saying a trans woman gave up on being a man sounds super offensive...
they weren't men to began with..
but I can get what your saying though... I use to wonder why would anyone wanna be female and deal with the crap they deal with a daily bases. But I can also give them props and I certainly admire them.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 04:16:11 PM
Why would anyone want to be female anyway? I understand "feeling" female like cis-women and MTFs do therefore having no choice, but it's kind of sad that they weren't born/gave up being male. I'm not trying to be offensive, just curious if this line of thinking is just me or other trans guys think like this too. Not sure if most bio men do but I guess so. In my case I believe that men and women deserve the same rights and everything but at the end of the day the better ones like God should be male.

This is probably the biggest, most offensive load of sexist bullspit I've ever read here. "the better ones like God should be male." Can you not see what is wrong with that statement? True equality will never happen while there are people on this planet who think that one gender is better than the other.

That's the thing, I can't explain it. It's not something that I could objectively say: "God should be male for X and Y reasons opposed to women who lack X and Y". That's why I say that I respect women and men equally and they deserve the same rights and everything, because both genders have the same skills / intelligence / goodness etc.

But still, it's the feeling that men are the default gender, like the protagonists of this world/life, therefore its creator should be male. It would just make no sense to have a female God, I mean sure she (he) would still have accomplished the same things and would love humanity just the same, but it wouldn't feel the same, it wouldn't feel "right".

I'm the kind of person who values life above everything else, and since we supposedly only live once, it just makes me kind of depressed that some people die as women (as secondary characters), like if their life hasn't meant much at all. Yeah I know, life doesn't really mean much for anyone, mine probably has no meaning at all, but at least being male you are somehow closer to being important in any way and that must mean something.

Tysilio, hmm but less desirable doesn't equal inferior. I didn't mean it that way, I don't think women are inferior, I have a great respect for them as I said. Perhaps I do think that men are somewhat "better" (not physically/mentally, but like spiritually) but that doesn't make women inferior. I don't mean it like that. :/

Aquawhatever: You're right, bad wording, I apologize, although I meant it more in the sense that they are half-way already, having a male body, but of course they only give up their bodies not their minds, just like us transguys. Seems like you do think a bit like me haha, I was kind of surprised that I was the only one, although I really didn't know what to expect either.

Supremecatoverlord, I'm not "proud" of thinking this way, and I'm definitely not trying to degrade anyone, sorry if it may have come out this way but it's not, I only mean well haha, but I guess my thinking can upset people that's why I normally don't talk about this (in fact no one IRL knows that I think this way), but today I was just too curious not to. I'm starting to regret it though, maybe it's better if no one else reads/answers this thread because it seems like it's really sexist and I don't want to upset people further. I'll find the answer elsewhere (don't know where though, definitely not tumblr as they are all feminists XD, but I was thinking of a poll or something). At any rate, thanks everyone for your answers, and again I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to.

God and adam

Quote from: MannyTysilio, hmm but less desirable doesn't equal inferior. I didn't mean it that way, I don't think women are inferior, I have a great respect for them as I said. Perhaps I do think that men are somewhat "better" (not physically/mentally, but like spiritually) but that doesn't make women inferior. I don't mean it like that. :/

Nope. You can't have it both ways. If men are "better," then women are "not as good." "Not as good" equals inferior.

To say that men can be better without women being worse is mere weaseling, and a complete failure of rational thought and use of language.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 06:35:23 PM
But still, it's the feeling that men are the default gender, like the protagonists of this world/life, therefore its creator should be male. It would just make no sense to have a female God, I mean sure she (he) would still have accomplished the same things and would love humanity just the same, but it wouldn't feel the same, it wouldn't feel "right".

I'm the kind of person who values life above everything else, and since we supposedly only live once, it just makes me kind of depressed that some people die as women (as secondary characters), like if their life hasn't meant much at all. Yeah I know, life doesn't really mean much for anyone, mine probably has no meaning at all, but at least being male you are somehow closer to being important in any way and that must mean something.

Tysilio, hmm but less desirable doesn't equal inferior. I didn't mean it that way, I don't think women are inferior, I have a great respect for them as I said. Perhaps I do think that men are somewhat "better" (not physically/mentally, but like spiritually) but that doesn't make women inferior. I don't mean it like that. :/

Perhaps have a good look at what you've said here. There is some latent sexism that you might be missing..

There's nothing wrong with actual feminism, which in correct practice is what most think as humanism, and is about equality for all.

Equating something as better is an immediate degradation of the latter.

Please consider your feelings towards one gender being superior is not why you are transitoning either. You're condoning living in a sexist world by everything you say to your post and even perhaps falling prey to it.

Quote from: Tysilio on October 01, 2014, 06:00:36 PM
This is a distinction without a difference. If it's more desirable to be a man, then it's less desirable to be a woman. This could only be because women are inferior to men.

(Big, big hint here: they're not.)

The fact that "God" is believed by so many (at least of the monotheistic persuasion) to be male is evidence of misogyny, not proof that misogynists are correct.

Actually the only reason people refer to God as him he and his, is because Adam was here first then God took rib from Adam and made Eve, also if you listen to like teachers and what not they always use a masculine pronoun first, God is actually genderless to answer your question. Other than that I can see why someon would fine this post offnsive especially the second paragraph, Lets not act like us men don't go through anything, we equally deal with things male or female no one has it harder.

Whoa. Lots has been said. But I'll keep my reply short and simple. I think anyone can be misogynist despite their gender, like someone said in the thread earlier it exists in all crowds. And IMO I think God is genderless but I dunno why some refer to God as male. If were an actively practicing monotheistic individual then I would probably refer to God as genderless and with neutral pronouns.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 06:35:23 PM
It's not something that I could objectively say: "God should be male for X and Y reasons opposed to women who lack X and Y".

I see what you did there.


But in all seriousness...
I think I can understand you preferring a male body physically because that's the body type you desire and your dysphoria may even make it difficult to understand why anyone would prefer a female body. However, what I don't understand is seeing the male body or "maleness" in general as superior. Most societies are patriarchal so the belief that males are more superior is simply a social construct.

As for the spiritual aspect of things, I'm agnostic so I don't want to comment on god's gender but I suggest you take a step back and educate yourself more about religion in general. Since gender is a physical and social construct I would think that the spirit or soul would transcend those things but that's just my thought.

I understand where you are coming from absolutely. I have personally had to deal with my own thinking/feeling on it. I used to be pretty sexist when I was young. I think it's imoprtant to talk about it, especially if we want to give it up. I have always been extremely interested in the male aspect of everything. For instance, I love Greek mythology, but I would discard all female gods(excluding Artemis) because I saw them as weaker therefor irrelevant. I would always question a woman or argue with what they said but, never a man. I would trust them to make the right decision/ give the right advice.

I stopped thinking that way when a lot of things women go through started happening to me. Once I hit puberty and it dawned on me that I was one of them in a sense all of the sexist stuff I was ignoring came outta the woodwork. I started looking into the jokes more, I started seeing the same dismissiveness I had been applying to them. I even recognized the "privilege" sometimes given to them, when it was really just men thinking them weaker. I've changed my way of thinking and the only thing that helped me to change it truly was being able to talk about it even though I knew I would be judged for it.

I still stand by my opinion of talking though it without being to harsh.