People are people. No one is better than anyone else. There is no better gender. The idea and belief that male is "normal" is crock. I'm stepping out.

Edit: I wanted to add that I came back after thinking some more. I realized that what I posted originally was knee jerk and I should have just taken a breath. I think that everyone faces certain issues with what they believe, and I'm not an exception. I think for some folks who are gender variant, it can be easy to fall into certain ideas because we aren't necessarily happy with how we perceive ourselves.

That being said, I do stand by with what I said before: no one is better than anyone else and at the end of the day, our differences (gender, color, language, religion, etc.) are shallow compared to the whole. We're all human and we are all equal.

to be frank, most people who are sexist don't care if you identify as a male and are really a guy inside. They see someone born female the same as all other females, so really, your beliefs make zero sense. Based in your biology alone you are grouped with women in our society and until you pass and are stealth you will probably be treated as such. So I would reconsider your attitudes towards women if I were you because many people will consider you a member of that club.

I had to edit several posts. Please keep it civil, don't talk about your suspicion if a post is or is not going to be moderated or locked.

I will point out that all humans start out female in the womb it's only later in its development that the fetus differentiates sexually.

I would say your way of thinking is most likely in the minority. But if that's what you believe, that's what you believe.

I'm sort of confused as to why you started this discussion though. Are you looking for people who think like you? Trying to assess if your way of thinking is "accepted" or "normal"? What's troubling you about your ideas you wrote about?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  In my opinion, most humans are ignorant to anything but their own reality.  I've had a friend tell me before, "I don't understand why anybody wouldn't want to be a man" which while ignorant is his perspective.  He is a man, feels like a man, couldn't see and doesn't feel otherwise.

Bottom line, people are sexist, people are racist, people are products of their environment despite gender or ethnic background.

Why hasnt anyone mentioned mtf who are misandrists?

Quote from: viktor_tokyo on October 02, 2014, 07:52:47 AM
I'm sort of confused as to why you started this discussion though. Are you looking for people who think like you? Trying to assess if your way of thinking is "accepted" or "normal"? What's troubling you about your ideas you wrote about?

Hopefully he's starting to question his own sexist beliefs rather than looking for someone to pat him on the back and justify his sexist beliefs.  At least that's what I'm hoping the point of this post was.

QuoteWhy hasnt anyone mentioned mtf who are misandrists?

Probably because that's not the subject of the thread. 

Quote from: Tysilio on October 02, 2014, 11:56:18 AM
Probably because that's not the subject of the thread.

right sorry ,

all im gonna say is that when you are forced to live as something you are not , its only natural to hate everything that has to do with it

A lot of the replies I agree with but what I really don't agree with is the male is a default. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe all of us start out "female" in body and then get a rush, or don't, of hormones that change the secondary characteristics during a certain point of gestation. So in a sense female is default? At least in body. In mind (which is what matters) we start out as one or the other. Much of the ideals that one gender is better than another is highly society based. In certain cultures the man is the inferior gender, so it really can go both ways.

Also remember some gods for some cultures have absolutely no gender, or have multiple genders.

Quote from: Ayden on October 01, 2014, 08:51:00 PM
We're all human and we are all equal.

This.

Quote from: Sebryn on October 02, 2014, 01:11:33 PM
A lot of the replies I agree with but what I really don't agree with is the male is a default. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe all of us start out "female" in body and then get a rush, or don't, of hormones that change the secondary characteristics during a certain point of gestation. So in a sense female is default? At least in body. In mind (which is what matters) we start out as one or the other. Much of the ideals that one gender is better than another is highly society based. In certain cultures the man is the inferior gender, so it really can go both ways.

Also remember some gods for some cultures have absolutely no gender, or have multiple genders.

Yes but if you look in the book of genisis man was already here God took rib from Adam and made women so I think this is why some people believe men are over women or again refer to God as him even though he's genderless.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 04:16:11 PM
This may seem like a weird question but I don't know, I've always wondered about this: are some trans guys kind of sexist/misogynistic? I ask this because I feel like this is my case and I don't know if it's because I'm trans or it's just me, like maybe because I'm not attracted to women (nor men for that matter, I'm asexual) or for some other reason.

But don't take me wrong, I don't mean thinking that women are "inferior" and should stay in the kitchen and all that crap. That's not the kind of sexism I meant, what I mean is thinking that men are the "default" / "normal" / "desirable" gender. Like for instance, everyone assumes God is male, right? the Bible says so although no one knows for sure but that's still how it should be you know? imagine a female god lol. Or with most films and tv shows, the main protagonist/hero is usually a guy, it's Spiderman not Spiderwoman for a reason! And it's not necessarily about having a dick, that's beside the point. I'm talking about maleness in general, being a man.

Why would anyone want to be female anyway? I understand "feeling" female like cis-women and MTFs do therefore having no choice, but it's kind of sad that they weren't born/gave up being male. I'm not trying to be offensive, just curious if this line of thinking is just me or other trans guys think like this too. Not sure if most bio men do but I guess so. In my case I believe that men and women deserve the same rights and everything but at the end of the day the better ones like God should be male.

your question is why would anyone want to be female in a male dominated world.
I think of it as why would anyone want to be trans in a cis-dominated world?

I dont think anyone would want so, only in extreme caise you see women becoming men for priviliges, but the identity is bigger than the trouble they would have to face.
-
now depiste there also good thing being female, exemple female can manly wear alot more diffrent kind of clothing without taking it as a statement, I am personally pretty jelous about that.

Quote from: Natkat on October 02, 2014, 05:10:11 PM
your question is why would anyone want to be female in a male dominated world.
I think of it as why would anyone want to be trans in a cis-dominated world?

I dont think anyone would want so, only in extreme caise you see women becoming men for priviliges, but the identity is bigger than the trouble they would have to face.
-
now depiste there also good thing being female, exemple female can manly wear alot more diffrent kind of clothing without taking it as a statement, I am personally pretty jelous about that.

Not to mention us men have to hold stuff in because of what we will be seen as if we cry in public, women can cry and someone will just ask if she's ok and confort her but us, we we will get called explicit words if we do, we also tend to get called gay alot more if you do even the slightest femenine thing. Women actually have alot more privilages and once you get that male privilage like other guys it get its hard, Its not easy being any gender in my oppinion I hate when females say its easier to be a boy when its really not.

Quote from: Manny on October 01, 2014, 04:16:11 PM
Why would anyone want to be female anyway? I understand "feeling" female like cis-women and MTFs do therefore having no choice, but it's kind of sad that they weren't born/gave up being male. I'm not trying to be offensive, just curious if this line of thinking is just me or other trans guys think like this too. Not sure if most bio men do but I guess so. In my case I believe that men and women deserve the same rights and everything but at the end of the day the better ones like God should be male.

I don't think the experience of being transgender has to do with what you *want* to be. It's what you are. Actually not proud of "white males" in this country. I don't think this it's let's just say a proud tradition. I'm proud of who I am. But that's who I am inside and all that sort of thing. It includes being male because that's what I am authentically.

I don't think God is male. In Christianity (and some Western traditions) some people see God as male. I think it's an incomplete understanding of Christianity which mostly leaves off thinkers like Christian mystics and so on and places more emphasis on St Augustine and so forth. Other traditions don't have any history of thinking of God as male.

Trans guys can be very sexist. I have seen it here and other places. I think in some cases they hate the female in themselves or are overreacting to how they were socialized and feel that they need to degrade  women to hold up themselves. Obviously that's wrong.

--Jay

OK. So I don't want to PO Susan. But a little bit of sexism is OK. I really could care less if a guy is a little sexist as long as he don't mind if I am a little bit feminist. As a matter of fact I love a man that is a man and clueless to anything feminine. As long as there is respect involved in the relationship. Don't ever forget guys that behind every good man there is a woman. But....When I want a man I want a man, if you forget that little diddy about, "Behind every good man, there is a woman" I won't let you forget. And if you ever do that is fine too. If I have to ride your coat tails that is fine. If I have to push you to greater things that is fine too. OK does that make sense?

OK so Jess42 is totally insane legitimately now. But not really though. It is after all a game of give and take, you give and I take or I give and you take.

It does take to tango. Who leads is totally up to the one that I am involved with. The Tango is a pretty rough dance and kind of mimics true life.

But I could care less if you are sexist or not.

Quote from: aleon515Trans guys can be very sexist. I have seen it here and other places. I think in some cases they hate the female in themselves or are overreacting to how they were socialized and feel that they need to degrade  women to hold up themselves. Obviously that's wrong.

I think this is right on target, Jay.  I think some trans guys also see it as a way of fitting in with cis men, many of whom say pretty foul things about women when none are present. I've always had a few good friends who are cis men, but I don't ever hang out with sexist guys , so that's not an issue for me.

On the other hand, when I was presenting as (sort of) female, I occasionally said mildly critical things to female friends about things that women do -- I can't say them now that I'm presenting as male, because my cis women friends take it as sexist, where they used, pretty much, to roll their eyes and agree. Insiders can say things about their own that outsiders can't.

Good to know that MtFs aren't the only ones who are constantly spouting sexist BS on this site.

It comes with the territory of being trans, apparently. Growing up in a gender that you never identified with, and being subjected to its standards and socialization and constantly hating every minute of it, makes a person bitter. And it's easy to make the jump to not being able to see a single positive thing about it because you hated it so much.

It happens both ways.

Quote from: Brandon on October 02, 2014, 04:54:56 PM

Yes but if you look in the book of genisis man was already here God took rib from Adam and made women so I think this is why some people believe men are over women or again refer to God as him even though he's genderless.

The part he took is important.  If it was a bone of the foot she would be seen as beneath him, if it was a bone of the head she would be seen as his ruler, but it was the rib so that they would be seen as equal halves who complement each other. 

Well, I don't think I'm sexist- If anything, I'd say women are superior, just don't know how they do it 
I don't see God as gendered, though calling God "He" does make sense since the english language doesn't have an official neutral pronoun, and it's how it's been said throughout my life. One thing though, I used to hate gendered pronouns but since transitioning, I don't have a problem and don't think it's too much of a big deal for he to be the default. I would like to see a gender neutral pronoun come about and be used frequently, but in the mean time I think those cultural left overs from previous mysogyny can be overlooked.