Quote from: Taka on October 02, 2014, 03:51:58 PM
i've suffered a little from never having been allowed to be me when i grew up. mom's a natural dictator, and even her current husband can't manage to go against her. needed time to grow up and stuff before i could start to realize how different being me is from being anyone else. i already knew when i was a kid, even learned what it was called in my early teens. but at that time i had more than enough trouble just staying alive. trans was definitely the last priority in my list to deal with. only remembered this stuff again a few years ago...

thinking about it, i probably always knew who i am, even in terms if trans. what i had to figure out was mostly where my thinking went wrong when nothing seemed to make sense. the only wrong thing was my definition of normal, not what i knew about myself.

There is no freakin' normal Taka. I hate to tell you this or anyone else for that matter but normal doesn't exist. I have seen a lot of supposedly "normal" people with a lot of weirdness. And when I say weird, trans or non binary would make them normal. There may be an illusion of "normal" but don't fall for it. We are way more normal than we think. Or at least way more normal than a lot of so called normal people claim to be.

What is bad is that people look for too much validity from society. In 100 hundred years, I will never ask society to validate me. I validate myself, I am here and I am transgender MTF, FTM or non of the above and if they can't accept that then they can kiss my mule or butt. I have found a niche in society that I can be me freely and comfortably and whoever really don't like it, Oh well... I'm so sorry.

  I wish I was as Extraordinary as you are Taka..
I don't want to be normal,
I don't care anymore what anyone thinks.
We're all so amazing, its hard to believe.!!

Jess and Taka,

I think you both know how much I care for and admire you both.  Just promise me you'll stick around to keep the cats and kittens united.  You both are more important than you can possibly know.

Thank You,
Julie

I try to stick to the simple "I have never felt right as a woman, but living as a man didn't work out either."

so Jess42 if you don't mind me being curious what exactly does a unicorn eat just in case I encounter one.

Quote from: stephaniec on October 02, 2014, 09:03:56 PM
so Jess42 if you don't mind me being curious what exactly does a unicorn eat just in case I encounter one.

CORN. That should have been a simple given. I guess us Blonde chicks are a little smarter than the brunettes give us credit for. Of course I am a dirty blonde so. The key word being dirty.

Quote from: JulieBlair on October 02, 2014, 06:14:32 PM
Jess and Taka,

I think you both know how much I care for and admire you both.  Just promise me you'll stick around to keep the cats and kittens united.  You both are more important than you can possibly know.

Thank You,
Julie

Thank you Julie. But really no more important as anyone else here. Just a little passionate about this momentum we are gaining and I would hate to see someone use anything against us to keep us down and shamed. Believe me. I am no activist but I know how the world works and I do know that there are probably people looking at this forum right now from certain groups or "Clubs" waiting to strike at the first sign of weakness in this momentum. And tha one voice I can't get out of my head.

So far I ahve been lucky.  I have only talked with my winderful wife and one friend.

But both got it, with no real explanation needed.

Any further exposition was more for my benefit than theirs.

I have surrounded myself with some very good people, and as I walk this path I hope my luck holds with my close friends.

Still scared of the potential conversation with my conservative parents though.
Dad is even a preacher...  Hey dad, you know how I never really rebelled?  Guess what...
Yeeeeaaaahhhhhh....  Love my folks, that is not gonna be any fun...


- Jaded Jade

Quote from: Jess42 on October 02, 2014, 04:32:21 PM
There is no freakin' normal Taka. I hate to tell you this or anyone else for that matter but normal doesn't exist. I have seen a lot of supposedly "normal" people with a lot of weirdness. And when I say weird, trans or non binary would make them normal. There may be an illusion of "normal" but don't fall for it. We are way more normal than we think. Or at least way more normal than a lot of so called normal people claim to be.

What is bad is that people look for too much validity from society. In 100 hundred years, I will never ask society to validate me. I validate myself, I am here and I am transgender MTF, FTM or non of the above and if they can't accept that then they can kiss my mule or butt. I have found a niche in society that I can be me freely and comfortably and whoever really don't like it, Oh well... I'm so sorry.

as i said, my definition of normal was completely wrong.
i thought it had at least some kind of significance.
but found out that what society defines as normal really is never right, not even when they make it law.

i am completely normal, in my own definition of it.
a perfectly normal part of natural variation.
i don't conform to norms though, neither to anyone else's definition of normal.

Quote from: Jess42 on October 03, 2014, 01:57:56 AM
Thank you Julie. But really no more important as anyone else here. Just a little passionate about this momentum we are gaining and I would hate to see someone use anything against us to keep us down and shamed. Believe me. I am no activist but I know how the world works and I do know that there are probably people looking at this forum right now from certain groups or "Clubs" waiting to strike at the first sign of weakness in this momentum. And tha one voice I can't get out of my head.

I've been here off and on for several years and have noted an increase in the gravitational pull toward NB by trans types who have realized that it isn't necessary for them to be sliced and diced and move from one gender box to the other and that there is a rather comfortable middle ground where one can live outside the boxes and enjoy life on their own terms. The in depth conversations and times of shared introspection make that more evident to others and as long as we continue to have intelligent and insightful discussions as opposed to the usual superficial poof and twaffle that goes on elsewhere. It's about time that people understand that there is no need to buy into the usual group-think mentality or be moved by peer pressure and think outside of the box!

Quote from: Shantel on October 03, 2014, 07:00:39 AM
I've been here off and on for several years and have noted an increase in the gravitational pull toward NB by trans types who have realized that it isn't necessary for them to be sliced and diced and move from one gender box to the other and that there is a rather comfortable middle ground where one can live outside the boxes and enjoy life on their own terms. The in depth conversations and times of shared introspection make that more evident to others and as long as we continue to have intelligent and insightful discussions as opposed to the usual superficial poof and twaffle that goes on elsewhere. It's about time that people understand that there is no need to buy into the usual group-think mentality or be moved by peer pressure and think outside of the box!

Shantel
I completely agree.  These conversations are rich and go straight to the heart of our identity and community.  Folk like Taka, Jess42, Ativan, Satinjoy and many, many others share and care so much, invest so much in this forum.  This is a precious gift which I acknowledge and thank you for.  My hope is that you will continue to share and support our community for a long time to come.  I know this is unreasonable, but just in case you didn't know, you are loved and appreciated by many.
Safe travels
Aisla

Quote from: Jaded Jade on October 03, 2014, 02:34:02 AM
So far I ahve been lucky.  I have only talked with my winderful wife and one friend.

But both got it, with no real explanation needed.

Any further exposition was more for my benefit than theirs.

I have surrounded myself with some very good people, and as I walk this path I hope my luck holds with my close friends.

Still scared of the potential conversation with my conservative parents though.
Dad is even a preacher...  Hey dad, you know how I never really rebelled?  Guess what...
Yeeeeaaaahhhhhh....  Love my folks, that is not gonna be any fun...


- Jaded Jade

JJ

There is no rule that says you must tell everyone.  Why not tell those who need to know when they need to know it.  As you live your truth, your authenticity will shine through.  You will know when you have the words, the time and the need to tell your parents.  There is no timetable.  Just follow your path.  Don't sweat the next step or overthink this.

While I have come out to more than 40 friends, colleagues, clients and family I have not yet decided if or when I will speak with my parents or siblings.  So far so good.  They have been curious and concerned but it hadn't changed our relationship, except to make me more real, more human and trusted.  My son and I spoke last week.  It went well, very well.  Not sure why I agonised over this conversation for so long.  Each conversation becomes easier.  At some point I will likely speak with my parents, brothers and sister, but  I am learning not to sweat over this.
Safe travels

Aisla

I can think of very good reasons why anyone thoughtful would come to the non-binary forum.  Passion, and intellectual depth.  My gender identity wanders from here to there, but my appreciation of passion and articulate argument is transcendent.  You people are amazing - Thank you

Julie

*is extremely late to the party*

*has thoughts on certain matters, but is unsure of whether to express them*

Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 04, 2014, 03:43:49 PM
*is extremely late to the party*

*has thoughts on certain matters, but is unsure of whether to express them*

You're thoughts are valued don't let anyone intimidate you this is your forum too, say what you want as long as you keep it inside TOS parameters.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on October 04, 2014, 03:43:49 PM
*is extremely late to the party*

*has thoughts on certain matters, but is unsure of whether to express them*

DF
This is tricky as the TOS need to be observed.  If in doubt perhaps bounce it off Cindy first and if likely to trigger post a warning if your thoughts could be interpreted as a criticism of others.
Aisla

Quote from: suzifrommd on September 29, 2014, 08:51:07 AM
No, not a requirement. However if we would like binary folk to understand us, then teaching them is THE ONLY WAY they will ever understand. To expect them to come across the correct understanding on their own would be ... optimistic. More likely they would get it more wrong they than they would get it right unless they hear it right from us.

Sorry for the backtrack but I feel that this is an important point.

No one should ever feel obliged to have to explain to the world who they are just to be respected and taken seriously. I am all for people sharing lives and experiences that are different to my own, but if I don't understand something, they do not owe it to me to help me understand. The fact that many people do this is wonderful, I respect those people immensely but they don't have to. In fact, demanding that someone explains their life and experiences in minutia, and how they are systemically disadvantaged because of them, before I will take them seriously is as good as admitting that I am in a position of systemic advantage over them. I am literally telling them that my time is too damn important to waste on trying to understand the disadvantages they face.

The pursuit of knowledge and wanting to understand something is admirable, but not of the expense of treating someone's life and experiences as an intellectual exercise. If you feel that you have to understand somebody's experiences in explicit detail in order to respect it, I would politely suggest that you don't respect it, and probably have no intention of.

On a related note, if I ever see anyone try to play devil's advocate I will report your intellectually dishonest rear end faster than I can skate down a hill, and trust me I skate very quickly.

It's probably time to refocus on helping others now and moving on.  We all know now that invalidation is no longer tolerated here and there is such more we can focus on, for the good of all trans.

We have to trust our mods To take care of it.  They will now.

Time to let it go my dear ones, it is time to move on.

Satinjoy

Quote from: Taka on October 03, 2014, 05:14:00 AM
as i said, my definition of normal was completely wrong.
i thought it had at least some kind of significance.
but found out that what society defines as normal really is never right, not even when they make it law.

i am completely normal, in my own definition of it.
a perfectly normal part of natural variation.
i don't conform to norms though, neither to anyone else's definition of normal.

That most definitely are words of wisdom Taka. Normal is abnormal. My gawd, some of the so called normal people I have run across make me look boring. I am far from boring and so wild that Zoologist are considering me for an exhibit. But there is no normal in human life. No matter what. People fool themselves all the time. I run into people that are normal all the time and the one thing they share is that they are not ever really completely normal. It is a Paradox. But we are all unique and special. That we all share the commonality of. That is not a bad thing. Diversity is about the best thing about humanity and when we fool ourselves we are the fools. We embrace it and respect it from ourselves and one another, that is the best legacy from ourselves that we can ever leave behind.

Quote from: Satinjoy on October 04, 2014, 04:58:32 PM
It's probably time to refocus on helping others now and moving on.  We all know now that invalidation is no longer tolerated here and there is such more we can focus on, for the good of all trans.

We have to trust our mods To take care of it.  They will now.

Time to let it go my dear ones, it is time to move on.

Satinjoy

Dear Satinjoy, don't take this the wrong way and no one else either but I don't care to be validated. If someone considers me invalid then that is their problem. I think a lot of times we expect validation. I don't. I will help whoever in the world I can and the best advice that I can give is don't crave validation from society or anyone else. You have to be valid to yourself first and foremost or you will never feel anything but invalid. If you feel valid to yourself, then you can be confident with yourself and when you have self confidence then you can walk down the street with your head held high and then demand others to respect you. They really don't have to validate you but as long as they respect you as a unique individual and have the right to live your own life and live it the way you want to live it then they can think what they want about. Especially about me. I don't want to live anyone else's life but my own. That is the number one thing that I have to be happy with. My life and living it the way I want. Not how someone else or everyone else, especially the whole of society, thinks I should live it.

But again. I do not depend on anything from society. I have friends, I have had lovers and those are the ones that matter or in the case of lovers, exes not so much except for one and if you have a time machine I really want him back. I came into this world on my own, unique and different. I did have parents like everyone else though that got me to the point that I could take care of myself and that was at the age of 16. I have no children because of my "uniqueness", so when I leave this world, I will be on my own unless I outlive my lover. Or we  settle down, move to a more liberal place and marry and then adopt. But I don't need validation. I don't want validation. I take my validation. I am valid to me and those closest to me and that is all that matters or at least to me and those closest to me.

PS. I don't want to make anyone mad or hurt anyone. I love everyone here I am speaking from experience. No one is going to validate anyone else, we validate ourselves. When we do then some will respect it. Some may not, but they don't have to live your life. You do. Just like I have to live my life. And I live mine like I want to. If I want to be female then I am, if I want to be male (Yeah right big fail there) or be both, then that is my choice. I have to live my life, no one else and I have to be happy and comfortable with myself and no one else. Does this make sense or am I just crazy? I personally think I am losing it but... I lost it a long time ago.

Jess
I sense that you are strong, much stronger than many of us.
Perhaps early in our journeys we need or think we need more validation and recognition.  Your point that it shouldn't be necessary is fair but we are flawed, insecure, vulnerable and having been hurt, are often quick to fear or 'identify' an attack or an invalidation. Having said this as I have become more certain of my identity I am less and less concerned by what may or may not be invalidation, deliberate or unintentional.
Safe travels
Aisla