Just responding to the thread title question - it was for me but it isn't for everyone. Also, I would gladly go back to simple androgyny at least sometimes if I had a way to negotiate the social terms and be male most of the time and non-binary part of the time.

If I could remake reality I would give us all a lot more words and shades of grey.

It is for some people. But just like bi-now-gay-later isn't true, and is hurtful to bisexual people.

Being androgynous is only a step for some people. I identify as a girl but I don't have that much dysphoria which is why I spent a lot of time identifying as genderqueer.
I did... I learned that I just want to be more feminine and I want to be a woman. And that I wanted to be androgynous because it seemed easier. Because I was scared of identifying as a woman.
I was... I was scared I would never be a cute girl like I wanted to.

So for me it's kind of both. I'm still a little gender confused. And sometimes I'm still scared. I feel like I want to giggle at the idea of asking someone to call me a she.
Sometimes it feels less scary to go back to just identifying as genderqueer. But I am a girl. And being a girl makes me so happy. I'm both genderqueer and a girl. I think I can be both.

But that's not how it is for everyone. For some people, they will always want to be androgynous. And I think that's wonderful!

Quote from: Felix on September 24, 2014, 06:29:59 PM
Just responding to the thread title question - it was for me but it isn't for everyone.

The title question makes it appear that poster want to dicuss androgyny in general, but upon reading the OP I realized s/he was simply attempting to understand a personal situation. Of course, the way forums work, it immediately became a discussion of the general sort suggested by the title.

One of the most common human mental traits is the tendancy to want to believe most everyone is like oneself. I've been reading forums like this for a couple of decades now and I'm forever running across people who want to believe that androgyny and crossdressing are simply unfulfilled stepping stones to full transsexuality. The reality of things, though, is that there are many different ways of being. Just as bisexuality is not a stepping stone to homosexuality, androgyny isn't necissarily a step toward trassexuality. That's not to say some TS people don't make such a step, but everyone takes a different journey and there's no one-size fits all way to go. We all have to draw our own road map for this stuff.

It also went the way of drifting into various things, some were quite humorous, typical for this section a couple years ago.
But it did manage to return to a version of the title even after drifting, it was a good thread.
I read it again from a perspective two years later in the making and realize how much the dialogue has changed.
I see a lot of people who have gone through transformations, transitions, and changes in perspectives.

It is very true that some people are directly on a non-binary path, only to discover a path that is binary and suites them better.
And the opposite is true as well.
But in the sense of it being a stepping stone, not really, they discovered themselves while stepping through, but they probably would have regardless.
For many in binary transition, androgynous would be more accurate, as that is a presentation.
But sure, it is a matter of where you have discovered yourself to be on your journey.
There are no rules that say you cannot be androgyne or non-binary and then discover that you have moved on to binary, or the other way around.
We've seen this many times over the last two years since this thread was started.
If a persons understanding of themselves is as such, it is true to them and in respect for them, it is true to me as well.
Our paths are our truths for each of us, regardless of where they take us.

For me, it is also a reminder how many of us have refined these perspectives, have discussed and answered a lot of what was unknowns.
It was a very good thread.
I still like the reference to Schrodinger's gender...
Ativan

Just taking up this empty space here for now...

Now, let's come back to this a year or two later, maybe I will have my personal answer to this. Or maybe not. "Maybe" - the key to endless possibilities .

 

I identified as androgyne, in between, neither, binary gender, etc., for almost 20 years.

About two years ago, I started HRT, and since then have taken various steps which resulted in my now being legally female and living in the world as a woman. Which feels truly great! I remember my tipping point well. I was already living/working openly as Zythyra, very androgynous presentation, and still couldn't make up my mind about whether to start HRT. My therapist asked, "so you're OK with being seen as an androgynous male?" I burst into tears, knowing full well that I wasn't happy being perceived or referred to as male.

While my outward appearance has changed considerably since that time, I still feel myself to be other than binary gender. I don't identify as any particular label or term. I am simply me, Shana. While my life has had quite a lot of challenges over this journey of the past few years, I am truly happy to be who I am.

I continue to work towards a world in which any person is free to be, and express, whatever gender feels right to them!

Shana

To answer the question, androgyny could be the first step for some who intend to transition from one binary to another, however androgyny often times has more to do with certain individual's born looks, preferred outward presentation or both. To assume that it leads to full transition is like arguing about whether or not marijuana is a gateway drug for everyone who uses it. Some can smoke marijuana and never become a drug addict, some can consume alcohol and never become an alcoholic, therefore some can live androgynously and never be driven to transition fully to either gender.

[There are no rules that say you cannot be androgyne or non-binary and then discover that you have moved on to binary, or the other way around.
We've seen this many times over the last two years since this thread was started.
If a persons understanding of themselves is as such, it is true to them and in respect for them, it is true to me as well.
Our paths are our truths for each of us, regardless of where they take us.

For me, it is also a reminder how many of us have refined these perspectives, have discussed and answered a lot of what was unknowns.
It was a very good thread.
I still like the reference to Schrodinger's gender...
Ativan]
A great thought and one which I share
Aisla

It doesn't have to be, though it is for some people. For me, slightly androgynous guy is the only look I feel comfortable with, I've tried pushing my comfort zone, and it can only go so far. What I'll publicly feel comfortable wearing seems to have to be both something some binary guy would wear, even if this guy was gay, and also something similar to something a woman would wear...guy's skinny jeans, sneakers, and T-shirt seem to work the best, although weather and other issues sometimes force me to deviate from this, I hate business casual as it is so binary, and anything more formal I hate even more as it is even more...

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on October 05, 2014, 11:59:38 PM
I hate business casual as it is so binary, and anything more formal I hate even more as it is even more...

Ditto!

Quote from: EchelonHunt on October 06, 2014, 12:05:26 AM
Ditto!

Same for me

Increasingly I am favouring dress shirts in nice patterns and fabrics unbuttoned over an appropriate fancy T-shirt.  It is Andro enough to keep me happy, counts as business casual, and the lines of it let me hide my chest bumps quite nicely.  You can find male models dressed like that and modify it to taste.  I find just having airy layers and extra accessories makes me happier.  That and a shirt that has a nicer than average fabric to it.

Polo shirts which I used to like are no good for me now.  Weird that they flat display the boobs in a way that a near identical t-shirt doesn't...

I just need to try not to reach the gay pirate level of jewellery that I prefer when I am not at a renaissance festival...  lol

Formal, maybe a Kilt?  I can claim Scottish legitimately, so maybe I should...  Traditional Scottish dress also doesn't preclude long hair...   

For formal there are also the various metro-male options, it is just the traditional stuff that is near impossible.  some of the formal fashion plate stuff looks better than traditional formal, and gives the social cover of being better dressed than anyone likely to give you crap. 

I just need to drop 30lbs before I drop coin on the clothes I want...

But goodwill can be great for dress shirts.  Selection is completely random, and 15-45$ shirts for 5-10$.


- Jaded (Starting to like fashion for the first time in the history of ever...) Jade