Well, I've been on Susan's quite a bit this weekend.  I got the resort closed down and am almost caught up at work so I wanted to spend some time here.  Transition wise, the past few weeks have been difficult for me.  So, while reading a post about suicide attempts and passing, I began to wonder how many actually transition to the point where they settle into themselves?  What is the success rate?  Out of 100, how many of us eventually get there?  I tried the scientific literature for some survey or obscure dissertation and didn't find anything.

Any ideas?  How many of us make it?  Are there any commonalities to a successful transition? 

I don't know...

Hugs to all,

Jen

Self-acceptance, confidence, realistic expectations, support, perspective, patience, a sense of humour, the ability to act on what can be changed and acceptance of what can't, a degree of equanimity... I expect these are all qualities that are variously needed for a successful transition... and even then they may not be enough.

As for the percentage of success, I wish it were high, but I have some reservations about that.

Quote from: Ms Grace on October 05, 2014, 11:13:50 PM
Self-acceptance, confidence, realistic expectations, support, perspective, patience, a sense of humour, the ability to act on what can be changed and acceptance of what can't, a degree of equanimity... I expect these are all qualities that are variously needed for a successful transition... and even then they may not be enough.

As for the percentage of success, I wish it were high, but I have some reservations about that.

Could not have said it better myself.

One has to accept and just move on with there life.

Have no idea of numbers of success other then I feel I am one.

To be honest my transition has been pretty smooth but that's only because I put a ton of work into myself prehrt and had been working on my voice for about 2 years prior to starting hrt. So I'd say I've had a pretty successful transition so far. However I feel like once you have the depression monster in your life and you've been through a deep depression for most of your life, its very tough to truly ever shake. You just learn how to bounce yourself back and cope with it as you live while doing the best you can to minimize what can trigger it. However not everyone is able to do that even after a lifetime of dealing with depression, that's why support is just so crucial. Which society as a whole lacks. Thank goodness for the internet!

And it seems the majority of community goes through a deep depression because we can't be ourselves or we can't always transition when we really wish we could since our environments sometimes don't allow us to. A lot of our families disown us and society's ignorance and hatred for us just makes all of this even worst. So it's practically an inevitability that at some point or another we end up in a very depressive state of mind, especially those of us that figure out we're trans from a very young age.  Its more than enough having to deal with our dysphoria and the pain that comes with it, its crazy how many things we have to go through unnecessarily just to be who we're meant to be. If the world was truly accepting of us (supporting families) and we all had access to quality health/mental care then I really think the suicide rate would drop considerably. 

So who knows how many have had successful transitions since many of us end up just living our lives and moving on from the trans community. It's not so much people that are living stealth but just living their life I think. And depending on what country they live in, they could possibly be killed for "being out" We definitely need more studies done since there just isnt barely any research but as usual that all takes money and time. Those of us that fully transition I think are in the minority and there are far more gender queer/androgynous  peeps then us that go through the full hrt/surgery path.

What is a successful transition though? In my opinion its when you attain peace and a healthy perspective of yourself, not at war with your mind and body. You no longer have dysphoria holding you back from living your life and your personal transition goals have been met. Also that you're finally truly happy with who you are as an individual. 

Sitting here and thinking about it I'm at 70% there to a fully successful transition.

For many of us NOT transitioning is what success is all about.  There are many degrees of dysphoria.  My goal is to do the minimum required to keep the dysphoria down to an acceptable level.

For me that means HRT and removal of body hair.  I am hoping to avoid the expense and disability involved with SRS.  I intend to keep both my marriage and my ample breasts.  I don't want to pretend to be anything I'm not.  I'm not a woman, not really.  I'm not a man either.  I'm something else entirely.  My desire is to more fully abandon manhood and to come closer to the woman I would like to be.

I'm actually doing pretty good on that.  No one who saw me naked would think I was a man.  I'd settle for being 51% female.

Randi

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on October 05, 2014, 11:39:28 PM
. Those of us that fully transition I think are in the minority and there are far more gender queer/androgynous  peeps then us that go through the full hrt/surgery path.

What is a successful transition though? In my opinion its when you attain peace and a healthy perspective of yourself, not at war with your mind and body. You no longer have dysphoria holding you back from living your life and your personal transition goals have been met. Also that you're finally truly happy with who you are as an individual. 

What is a successful transition? Good question and I suspect the answer is different for all of us.

My therapist set me free a couple of weeks back, with the comment that he saw no need for me to have ongoing therapy. He also made the comment that I was a 'strong, happy and confident woman.' And I don't disagree. I live my life as a woman.. I'm accepted as a woman. People assume I'm a woman until I open my mouth and mention my past - and after the initial surprise wears off, things go right back to the way things were before I flapped my gums.

I've not had SRS and can't due to medical reasons. I label myself woman, even though it's not the most accurate label, as it is a simple label that most understand and it close enough to the truth.

I came out in July 2010.. And I made it.

Well based on the percentage of these responses it's looking pretty good, 60-80% 

I dare say that's not accurate though. It does make me wonder, how many do make it? But as Lady_Oracle States, what is a successful transition? I think it's a personal definition and relates strongly to peace and happiness within ones self.

Quote from: BreezyB on October 06, 2014, 01:18:58 AM

It does make me wonder, how many do make it? But as Lady_Oracle States, what is a successful transition? I think it's a personal definition and relates strongly to peace and happiness within ones self.

That's true, end of transition is set by ones own need for happiness.

I kind of wonder  if the % is a majority because of the fear of " passing ". whenever a question about the importance of " passable " is proposed the majority place an extremely high value on not being seen as transgender and its not realistic to go from one gender to another perfectly. I haven't been able to find the scientific data, but just sampling the people that come and go on Susan's and the fear of "passing " I'd be surprised  if it was anywhere near a majority. of course I could be wrong.

I've never considered this but considering that we have different goals then measuring this is a daunting task to  say the least.

Personally I'm almost there to my original goals. HRT is taking me where I want to be and electrolysis is ditching my unwanted hair. After that I plan on adding other elements to look "pretty". Not to pass. Passing is a confidence thing for me. I see so many "women" and "girls" that could pass for the opposite gender with just a change in dress and attitude that I feel comfortable. My concerns lay with how my work place will react once the cat is truly out of the bag there. Right now I just get a bunch of comments on how I should cut my hair a grow my beard out again. [shudder] And that is so annoying and hurtful to me.

Not many. I think a lot of people, just like they come and go off the forums, comes and go off HRT. Mostly go after a time. I know, I know the confidence fairy is great and if it works for you, wonderful. But for many, when being confident, head held high and being spat at with the words ->-bleeped-<- echoing off every wall nearby there's not enough confidence in the world to make some people say screw it.

I'd say there's a 75 percent fail rate, as in, 75 percent of peeps who start HRT will stop within 1.5 years or when changes become too noticeable. I also think this condition is a lot rarer than we think and a lot of people go through trauma and then identify as transsexual when they're not and eventually realize that. Then still others have families and wives that nag them off.

Maybe I'm wrong but just from being on the forums for a longish time, and the turnover rate has to be 95 percent. Almost no one on the forums now was here when I came. Maybe 1 perecent.

When I think of a successful transition what I think of is someone who lives their lives physically as the gender they identify with.

I still have stuff to do, but by that definition I am basically already finished. I mean when I go hang out with friends in a restaurant, I am Just another woman in her late 20s to the other patrons, and my friends all know me as Vera and don't mess up the pronouns hardly anymore. The only real dysphoria I have now is when I see myself naked (a certain thing, still needs to go) or during the impossibly long process of hair removal which I haven't finished.

The thing is lots of people I think get to where I am at and just leave the forums. So when people go it is hard to know if they succeeded and just want to get on with their lives or if they are throwing in the towel or such.

I do know this only a small percentage of people I hear of talk about gender issues seem to seek actual medical treatment for it and transition.

@joanna dark: having been here even longer I see the same thing, turnover is extreme there are a few people who stick around for years but the majority just don't.

I am a product of a successful transition.. my transition was a smooth one.. it does take a lot of planning. My case i was lucky, I left my home to start my female life, with one friend. I am an only child and was written off by my parents. My mother eventually came round, and now we share a special mother daughter relationship. My father never came round and passed away before accepting his daughter.

I am now 10 months post op, i look and feel female, my therapist said I am a well adjusted young lady. I now have a close circle of friends, who know nothing of my past. I am one of the girls. My SRS, well i told them that I was having a lady op..

I cant even imagine being male anymore. From that lonely shy male, I became a outgoing woman with friends.. my life turned a 180. I am very happy. All as I need now, is that special someone.. But I am not worried, I know he or she is out there.

I have actually been thinking a lot about this lately, in terms of both how successful I've been with my transition so far, and where I would need to be to be completely happy with myself. For me, I think what a successful transition would mean is to reach the point where I could go through my life just being female without having to think about being transgender and the things I feel like I need to do to be perceived as female by others. That's actually a pretty high bar in a lot of ways, because although I'm not having that much of a problem simply passing lately (or at least presenting myself in a way that I'm comfortable with that does not attract unwanted attention), I still struggle a lot with feelings of dysphoria because of the various things about myself that keep me from feeling completely female. I've mostly managed to accept the things I can't change, such as my height (six feet isn't too bad, and I do often see cisgendered women who are as tall as I am), my bone structure (my shoulders are too broad, but they could be worse, and I think it's really not as much of an issue in practice as I originally thought it would be), and that I'm never going to be completely happy with my sexual organs (I still don't really know if I want to get SRS, because I just don't know if it would feel close enough to what women are supposed to have for me to be happy with it). But the things I can change (body hair, face structure (I've been repeatedly told it's not that bad, but still...), lack of breast development, masculine fat distribution that just doesn't seem to want to change on it's own) still drive me crazy, and I still want to get them fixed as soon as I am able to. I don't think I will ever be able to say my transition is "complete" until I've taken care of those things. But even so, I'm feeling more and more confident as time goes on that my transition will end up in the success category, and I really don't see anything happening that would change that.

I think that what really defines the difference between someone who can successfully transition and someone who can't, is where your priorities are. If you want to transition because you idolize being female and you want to be an attractive girl that gets lots of attention and gets to wear pretty dresses all the time, and expensive jewelry, and gets an incredibly attractive boyfriend, and... you get the point. It's just not going to be that easy. But if you want to transition because you genuinely need to feel female to be comfortable with who you are, and nothing else really matters, then I think anyone can be successful. Since I genuinely care much more about being able to feel female than whether or not I am attractive, or anything like that, it makes it much easier to feel like my transition had gone well. If I was overly worried about those kind of things, I probably would have already started detransitioning by now.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on October 06, 2014, 08:26:21 AM
I'd say there's a 75 percent fail rate, as in, 75 percent of peeps who start HRT will stop within 1.5 years or when changes become too noticeable. I also think this condition is a lot rarer than we think and a lot of people go through trauma and then identify as transsexual when they're not and eventually realize that. Then still others have families and wives that nag them off.

Maybe I'm wrong but just from being on the forums for a longish time, and the turnover rate has to be 95 percent. Almost no one on the forums now was here when I came. Maybe 1 perecent.

Well about that... I haven't been posting much here lately either, but in my case it's really just being that obsessing over being transgender all the time was becoming tiring and I didn't have a lot to talk about in terms of new developments in my transition. Sometimes being transgender just gets a little old, and you get sick of thinking about it all the time. But I never at any point stopped hormones (nor would I ever want to), and I am still working towards doing everything I feel like I need to for my transition to be complete. Soo... I dunno, I think you are being a little pessimistic, but I haven't really closely known anyone in real life other than myself who attempted to transition either.

Quote from: JLT1 on October 05, 2014, 11:01:09 PM
Well, I've been on Susan's quite a bit this weekend.  I got the resort closed down and am almost caught up at work so I wanted to spend some time here.  Transition wise, the past few weeks have been difficult for me.  So, while reading a post about suicide attempts and passing, I began to wonder how many actually transition to the point where they settle into themselves?  What is the success rate?  Out of 100, how many of us eventually get there?  I tried the scientific literature for some survey or obscure dissertation and didn't find anything.

Any ideas?  How many of us make it?  Are there any commonalities to a successful transition? 

I don't know...

Hugs to all,

Jen

I suppose one would have to quantify and qualify what making it means!

Surely the goal posts are set at different points for different people. Many wish to attain the body and genitalia of the opposite gender they were born into and move on with their new female or male life, but for many the goal line is unattainable due to financial shortcomings or familial pressures, so in that respect I would assume that the failure rate is rather high.

On the other hand, there are many who move the goal posts closer finding peace through different options. These too can be considered a measure of personal success depending on the individual and how well their dysphoria comes under control.

Quote from: Ms Grace on October 05, 2014, 11:13:50 PM
Self-acceptance, confidence, realistic expectations, support, perspective, patience, a sense of humour, the ability to act on what can be changed and acceptance of what can't, a degree of equanimity... I expect these are all qualities that are variously needed for a successful transition... and even then they may not be enough.

As for the percentage of success, I wish it were high, but I have some reservations about that.

I don't think I could have stated it better myself.  I have done everything but SRS so far, and I already consider my transition a successful one.  I want to live now, I no longer hate myself, my wife is awesome, my friends and family exceeded expectations and I had no idea that I could rock a maxi skirt so well.

I have no idea what a successful transition would be for me. But I have been going back and forth in my mind about it.

I used to think low dose was what I'd do and maybe ramp up to full transition but now not anymore because I think I do want full transition. I do need to talk to the therapist about all of this though.

Reasons being really that all of my life I have dreamed of presenting as female and now with much of the social barriers gone compared to a few years ago it might actually be better to jump feet first and immerse myself. It's my life and I need to live it on my terms.

Just based on my own little support-group family of girls in my city who all started around the same time at the same age:

-1 never made it. He got NO results, even after 6 years of HRT and an orchiectomy, and is still living as male despite still being on HRT.
-3 successfuly transitioned and are plenty passable, but are still unemployed, chronically depressed, and still constantly bringing up suicide. I still worry a lot about them. (And one of them is still this way despite having already had SRS.)
-2 are in the camp of being relatively okay with themselves but still having a lot of depressive bouts and still trying to figure out who they are, (probably because they're still dealing with serious family issues, plus passability issues, and one was dumped by her fiance for "not being mature enough" and has been questioning herself and her gender ever since.)
-5 transitioned more or less 100% successfully, and despite losing a lot career-wise due to transition, are now working new jobs as themselves, more or less completely passable, working toward SRS, and with relatively few bad days. (And 3 of them are even in stable long-term relationships!)
-1 finally did transition successfully and happily, but has a long past history of unrest, of transitioning and detransitioning multiple times before she finally settled in.

So, out of 12 of us, only three have had identity-questioning issues, with one detransitioning and retransitioning, one ending up adopting a more genderqueer identity, and one never making it. The rest are ALL still living their lives as a girls, and pretty much unwavering in regards to their identity. But despite that unwavering identity, about half of them are still struggling with depression, image issues, family issues, employment issues, romance issues, just always some issue making them depressed despite being post-transition and more or less completely passable.

So in terms of "success," as in actually making the transition and living life in that new gender role, I'd say that detransition or not ever making it to being one's identity gender seems to be pretty rare. Usually once someone is actually on hormones, they know pretty quickly that they can't go back. Even the ones with the most trouble NEVER say "I want to be male again." All of the depressed ones are more just wishing they could be cis girls. And yeah... true acceptance of their new gender role, and acceptance of being trans, and actually being happy and comfortable and a more or less normal self-assured person with few emotional issues related to being trans, seems to be about a 50/50 tossup. (And even my "successful" friends still have their days. It's just that those days are more rare for them, where the "unsuccessful" ones are constantly complaining about their issues.)

(To be fair, though, this is a small sample size, and it's all a group of MtF girls who transitioned between the ages of 25 and 35, so it's admittedly a very small subset of the trans community. I have no idea what the "success" rate would be for FtMs, younger high-school/college transitioners, or older (35+) transitioners. I don't have many friends from any of these subsets, and thus don't know enough about them to diagnose their mental states.)

You could make an unscientific poll of your own, I suppose. Leaving it up to people to determine whether they'd been "successful," but asking whether or not they'd detransitioned.

(I'd say I was successful, and I didn't lose anything/anyone I cared about either. Just lucky, I guess.)

Based on Carrie's assessment along with what I've seen over the years full transition hasn't always been the ultimate panacea for many who have made it due to a lot of unfortunate negative familial and societal factors.