i know here in OKC, that out of 30 TG people FTM/MTF, that pretty much 80 percent have found their comfort zone - one committed suicide, the others like myself reverted back temporarily... even though i did my HRT at first to the point of my breast grew to a barely a B-cup, which after that point i had to goto my family and let them know what i was doing "so i wouldn't freak them out showing up as a women", "they live in california and im in oklahoma". After their acceptance, transitioning wasnt a driving force anymore and the fact i didnt want to look like a man in a womens dress... that was in 2006-2008. at 2014, i want to start transitioning again with full force and are going to do the HRT again...

so you might say i havent found that comfort zone of self acceptance yet, because i still look in the mirror and just want to cry.

pretty much the same here in okc - but as described earlier, what is a successful transition...

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 06, 2014, 11:01:22 AM
Just based on my own little support-group family of girls in my city who all started around the same time at the same age:

-3 successfuly transitioned and are plenty passable, but are still unemployed, chronically depressed, and still constantly bringing up suicide. I still worry a lot about them. (And one of them is still this way despite having already had SRS.)
-2 are in the camp of being relatively okay with themselves but still having a lot of depressive bouts and still trying to figure out who they are, (probably because they're still dealing with serious family issues, plus passability issues, and one was dumped by her fiance for "not being mature enough" and has been questioning herself and her gender ever since.)
-5 transitioned more or less 100% successfully, and despite losing a lot career-wise due to transition, are now working new jobs as themselves, more or less completely passable, working toward SRS, and with relatively few bad days. (And 3 of them are even in stable long-term relationships!)
-1 finally did transition successfully, but has a long past history of unrest, of transitioning and detransitioning multiple times before she finally settled in.

So, out of 11 of us, only two have detransitioned and retransitioned, with one ending up adopting a more genderqueer identity. The rest are ALL still living their lives as a girls, and pretty much unwavering in regards to their identity. But despite that unwavering identity, about half of them are still struggling with depression, image issues, family issues, employment issues, romance issues, just always some issue making them depressed despite being post-transition and more or less completely passable.

So in terms of "success," as in actually making the transition and living life in that new gender role, I'd say that detransition seems to be pretty rare. Usually once someone is actually on hormones, they know pretty quickly that they can't go back. Even the ones with the most trouble NEVER say "I want to be male again." All of the depressed ones are more just wishing they could be cis girls. And yeah... true acceptance of their new gender role, and acceptance of being trans, and actually being happy and comfortable and a more or less normal self-assured person with few emotional issues related to being trans, seems to be about a 50/50 tossup. (And even my "successful" friends still have their days. It's just that those days are more rare for them, where the "unsuccessful" ones are constantly complaining about their issues.)

(To be fair, though, this is a small sample size, and it's all a group of MtF girls who transitioned between the ages of 25 and 35, so it's admittedly a very small subset of the trans community. I have no idea what the "success" rate would be for FtMs, younger high-school/college transitioners, or older (35+) transitioners. I don't have many friends from any of these subsets, and thus don't know enough about them to diagnose their mental states.)

Also, I thought I'd share this:

Out of that group of girls who are post-transition, here's an interesting statistic to chew on:

Out of the 5 girls who are chronically depressed, a whopping 4 of them are unemployed and on Social Security Disability. Only 1 of them is working.
Out of the 6 girls who aren't depressed, 5 of them are working, and the other one is in college working toward her eventual career goal.

Employment: It gets you out of the house, away from your own self-destructive thoughts, and REALLY helps you feel like you have a purpose in life and aren't just a miserable self-loathing pile of crap who nobody wants to talk to and who will never be accepted.

Get out of the house. It helps.

Quote from: Shantel on October 06, 2014, 11:12:58 AM
Based on Carrie's assessment along with what I've seen over the years full transition hasn't always been the ultimate panacea for many who have made it due to a lot of unfortunate negative familial and societal factors.

As an afterthought to try and expand on my previous brief comment, those negative familial and societal factors quite often never really go away and frankly I think many of us have our head in the sand concerning that and assume that once we're post-op and up and running that all will be just fine and go away as if we were born cis types. The resultant depression comes from being unable to cope with that reality and can turn into a train wreck, in which case it might be better for some to follow up with continued therapy to develop some coping skills rather than to resort to drastic measures like de-transition or suicide.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 06, 2014, 11:51:53 AM
Also, I thought I'd share this:

Out of that group of girls who are post-transition, here's an interesting statistic to chew on:

Out of the 5 girls who are chronically depressed, a whopping 4 of them are unemployed and on Social Security Disability. Only 1 of them is working.
Out of the 6 girls who aren't depressed, 5 of them are working, and the other one is in college working toward her eventual career goal.

Employment: It gets you out of the house, away from your own self-destructive thoughts, and REALLY helps you feel like you have a purpose in life and aren't just a miserable self-loathing pile of crap who nobody wants to talk to and who will never be accepted.

Get out of the house. It helps.

Being unemployed and not getting out has been a big problem for you in the past. Your current job seems to be helping you.

  I really don't know how to quantify success.  Right now, part way through transition, I'm already feeling better in mind and body than at any point in my entire life.  At some point along the way I stopped caring almost entirely about whether or not I passed.  Not sure why but probably because I never experienced any negative reactions from anyone anywhere while presenting female in my 'unpolished' state.  Do I pass?  I actually have little idea because no one has made an issue out of it.  This doesn't mean I consider my transition complete - it just means that I'm a lot less stressed out by what is still to come.  I'm seriously considering going full-time soon even though I'm not a finished product.  In this way I treat every achievement to come as a bonus and it means I don't have to drop a sudden bombshell of a finished product on the last wave of people I have to come out to and betting everything on being convincing-enough to them.

  I guess I am successful because success for me represented a change of mental state, most importantly as it concerned shedding the awful and unwarranted self-consciousness I grew up with.  At each step of the way my mind seems to be positively in the lead over the other elements of my transition.  I other words, preparation has been key.  I understand that I could live out the rest of my life happily the way I am now but that the rest of my transition will proceed as matter-o'factly as puberty did and can only get better from here on.  I went into this at the beginning with the realization that I could go on and be at peace even if I lost every family member and friend.  So far everyone I've come out to is still with me.

  I think it's important to keep in mind that there are a lot of people out there that either had other unresolved issues before starting transition or that don't handle bad situations well.  I don't mean to sound insulting when I say this because transpeople do often end up in some really nasty spots that are unavoidable.  What I mean to say is that in the population as a whole there is a significant percentage that are overly emotional about everything and allow small stresses to affect them far to much or avoid dealing with personal issues until they explode.  I see it every day around me - it's what makes the world run like a soap opera.  So I would suggest that the percentages of depression and turmoil probably aren't that much different from everyone else cis whether or not the transperson is bringing some of it on themselves.  Let me qualify this better:

  I remember back when I was in a therapy group there was one person who blew up a meeting because they were a drama queen and also had a number of unresolved personal problems.  But there was also another who claimed to have come out successfully to everyone they knew and had a stable, rational mind, but then weeks later left a meeting in tears because something was going very wrong socially for them.  Both were doing very well at passing as female.  I think it is really important to look at your transition and separate the negatives that don't have anything to do with your achievements, particularly if those situations are beyond your control.  If you can make a very successful physical transition and pass to most people but your life is still full of theatrics, it doesn't mean you failed or should halt your transition or medication or revert your identity.  If there are people in your life that are causing you grief it's time to cut the cord and move on.  As difficult as it may be it can't be worse than staying swimming in the shark tank.

  Employment problems, housing access and poverty are a whole different beast.  I know well about these issues because my clinic is open-access to the whole community.  Still, backing out of transition isn't going to help in those respects.

I have an advantage in my field of work and my employer. I'm a nurse at the VA which has a very inclusive policy in regards to employing people with alternate gender identities (as stated very clearly in the mission and employee handbook). I also have very firm support from my mother and the friends I've told so far. I think my outcome may be pretty decent with work, friends, and family support.

Quote from: Wynternight on October 06, 2014, 12:58:48 PM
I have an advantage in my field of work and my employer. I'm a nurse at the VA which has a very inclusive policy in regards to employing people with alternate gender identities (as stated very clearly in the mission and employee handbook). I also have very firm support from my mother and the friends I've told so far. I think my outcome may be pretty decent with work, friends, and family support.

Congrats  VA nursing is a pretty secure field to be working in. I'm having cataract surgery Wednesday at VA Puget Sound, they've taken pretty good care of me.

Quote from: Shantel on October 06, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Congrats  VA nursing is a pretty secure field to be working in. I'm having cataract surgery Wednesday at VA Puget Sound, they've taken pretty good care of me.

  Ah, so now rather than us seeing a clearer picture of you, you'll be seeing a clearer picture of us!   (...says the girl behind the mask, cheekily...)

Quote from: Shantel on October 06, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Congrats  VA nursing is a pretty secure field to be working in. I'm having cataract surgery Wednesday at VA Puget Sound, they've taken pretty good care of me.

I'm happy to hear you're getting good there and very best wishes for your surgery. 

Quote from: Shantel on October 06, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Congrats  VA nursing is a pretty secure field to be working in. I'm having cataract surgery Wednesday at VA Puget Sound, they've taken pretty good care of me.

As an aside I've been thinking if I ever move out of Alaska it will be to WA state since it's a much more trans-friendly state.

Throughout my life (56 now), I've known many girls in our situation and I've seen only one revert back to male and one who became female outwardly but identifies as a hetero male inside but can only cope with the loss of his wife in this fashion (oddest case I've ever seen).  Most of the girls that I've known have gone on to have successful lives. Of all my t-peers, I am the only one who has not yet had surgery but look forward to the day I decide on a doctor whose technique and results appeal to me.

What is successful to one, may not be the case with another. I speak for myself when I say that I've never been happier in my life because of my present husband. I was first married at 18, then again at 27 and my third in early 40's.  With the latter, I've raised a wonderful son, and to them I owe the gift of motherhood.

So a successful work life working for well know individuals as executive assistant, a wonderful husband and son, working in community groups, Yes I would say I am successful to date.  Success however one interprets, is something that I wish for all the girls starting out, or going through whatever difficulties in life we face.

Quote from: Wynternight on October 06, 2014, 01:21:12 PM
As an aside I've been thinking if I ever move out of Alaska it will be to WA state since it's a much more trans-friendly state.

The west side of the state surely is, maybe you'll be my nurse some day!

Quote from: Shantel on October 06, 2014, 02:11:04 PM
The west side of the state surely is, maybe you'll be my nurse some day!

It could happen.

I'm thinking of going to UW for my BSN and MSN since their student insurance now covers trans-related healthcare.

Quote from: Wynternight on October 06, 2014, 02:25:04 PM
It could happen.

I'm thinking of going to UW for my BSN and MSN since their student insurance now covers trans-related healthcare.

Good plan, let me know when that happens, we'll do lunch and I'll show you around.

Quote from: Shantel on October 06, 2014, 02:28:37 PM
Good plan, let me know when that happens, we'll do lunch and I'll show you around.

Sounds good.

I'll probably be there in March for my two year followup visit from my bariatric surgery. I think I'll take a loot at the clinic there if I do make it.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on October 06, 2014, 08:26:21 AM

Maybe I'm wrong but just from being on the forums for a longish time, and the turnover rate has to be 95 percent. Almost no one on the forums now was here when I came. Maybe 1 perecent.

And that is good news! This is a SUPPORT site. People leaving presumably no longer need support. So them not coming back is a sign of success!
some also rejoin under different user names *cough cough*

Quote from: JLT1 on October 05, 2014, 11:01:09 PM
Well, I've been on Susan's quite a bit this weekend.  I got the resort closed down and am almost caught up at work so I wanted to spend some time here.  Transition wise, the past few weeks have been difficult for me.  So, while reading a post about suicide attempts and passing, I began to wonder how many actually transition to the point where they settle into themselves?  What is the success rate?  Out of 100, how many of us eventually get there?  I tried the scientific literature for some survey or obscure dissertation and didn't find anything.

Any ideas?  How many of us make it?  Are there any commonalities to a successful transition? 

I don't know...

Hugs to all,

Jen

What a great question and probably one of the reasons why I ended up coming here. Back in the day when I was doing my thing I was helped by others who were successful in their transitions. When I neared the end of my journey I helped a few others. Of course you first have to start by saying what successful is. Is it just surviving? Or living a good life afterwards? Or career success? or a combination?

Since you asked, I will offer my 2 cents for whatever it's worth. To be successful in this endeavor requires a number of things:

* Being brutally honest with oneself. When I started off I knew I needed FFS or there wasn't a chance in hell that I would be where I am today. It didn't do anything EXCEPT to give me a boost in confidence, which it actually did do.

* realizing that all of this talk about passing is horse poop if you have the right mind set

* realizing that getting clocked is part of life and will happen all the time regardless if you have 1 or 50 surgeries or none, M2F or F2M

* realizing that by virtue of one's birth we do not fit the ideal mold of men or women.

* realizing that hormones are not miracle girl (or boy) pills. They don't solve anything.

* this process isn't about SRS. The standards are there to make sure that the right people get this surgery based on the best scientific evidence that existed when they were created.

what it takes to be successful at this endeavor: patience and lots of it, resolve (I was amazed at the number of people who wanted to talk me out of SRS when the day approached), a level head, realizing that one might lose it all, a good plan and a back up plan in case plan A fails.

The most important thing is cash, lots and lots of cash. It took me unbelievable sacrifices to get too where I am. I went for years with a busted up pickup truck, no cable, bills running from month to month just to keep the lights on. But electrolysis costs boatloads of money and took me 3 years, even though I thought I wasn't hairy. In the beginning I was doing 3 - 4 hour sessions per week. Want to talk about expensive! I got up at 4AM every day and would be at work at 5:30AM, so i could walk out at 3PM and hop in my car and drive all the way to Boston from Hartford, just so I could do electrolysis. I was so busy I lost all of my friends, I fell out of touch with supportive family. I was too busy gestating in my own little cocoon until the day I was ready to face the world.

Saving up for surgeries was crazy and having to pay for therapy was ridiculous. I paid for my own therapy, blood work, doctor visits, endo visits. I was poked, prodded and turned over with a fine tooth comb as I'm sure anyone else can chime in on.
I literally feel like I have to spit in the eye of mother nature every day and say "You know you screwed up right? I was made to be this way." and just go live a life.

The whole process was very life affirming for me. I feel I came out the other side a better person. I am amazed at how much more social and easy going I am now compared to the timid and introverted person I was before. I feel like I can hand with anyone. And you want to know something interesting, people love that, especially successful people.

So here I was living a life, doing my own thing, disappeared from the community for many a year, and then I wondered one day. Am I the only one like me in the world? Am I the only one happy and contented and made my peace with the world? Or are there others like me? So I came here. You know what I found? I'm not alone, there are others who have done it all, survived, made their peace and living a nice quiet life.

So that's it in a very small nutshell, money, resolve, daring to be different, daring to step out the front door and say "Hello World here I am!". That's just my perspective.

Here is my situation

Physically, much remains to be take care off... SRS is a must in the bucket list. However, the voice surgery is at the top of the list. It is the only thing that gives me away. SRS is a must because of the boyfriend, and the fact that I do not want to die with that thing between my legs. My will stipulates that the penis must be removed before any funeral services shall I die before SRS....

Socially, I am done with the transition as I am fully accepted and respected in my community, temple, and places of employment... that is despite the deep voice...

Emotionally, I have never been so happy in my life... I would not be here have it not been for my five kids who relentlessly push me down the path of transition

Have I made it ? Well, despite the physical short coming I would say, yes I have made it.

I read somewhere that the % of people who have genuine regret about pursuing transition is in the single digits. I believe that our overall success rate is quite high.