You know, this entire thread has been a sobering reminder for me about just how much of a struggle it is to live as an eternally "out" trans woman.  I agree with Learningtolive-as easy as it is to say that passing isn't important and the world needs to grow up, if you are an unpassable trans woman, as I am, everything in your life is going to be second rate.  Nobody will ever hire you, you will never have a relationship, you'll have to worry about your safety at all times no matter where you go-I thought I wouldn't have to face any of this after two years, but here I am and apparently (though I have a hard time believing it) I still don't pass-I lost a prestigious job last summer for being visibly trans for god's sake.  So for all of you who don't care about passing, I'm happy for you and I dream of a world where we can all afford to live openly, but since living openly means sacrificing literally every other positive thing you could have in your life, passing is still very important, even if it shouldn't be.

Quote from: stephaniec on October 04, 2014, 01:56:45 PM
honestly , I think if we'd stop this nonsense of pass/no pass and come out and show the world we're the same as everyone else. society needs to grow up. there would be no difference with the general population if society would wake up an fulfill its evolutionary potential

Yep I definitely agree with this. Just a hypothetical. Evolution takes a lot of time. What if we are the new human beings? If in a thousand years what if biological males were the fairer sex and biological females the providers of the species? If the gender roles totally reversed? I mean really women having babies, I can't think of anyone that is stronger than that. Just what or where can we be in a thousand years? Personally I think mankind goes from paternal to maternal and back and forth. And to me it seems like females are getting stronger and male becoming more fragile. Emotionally, on the social ladder and so on. But again I am kind of out there so... 

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Amen!!! I truly hate the "do i pass" "am i pretty" undoubtably it goes to i passed three months before hrt..etc it eas so easy la la la. Being trans has nothing at all to do with being passable or whstever. I survived, im me and happy with that..wishing people would just be human to each other.

Quote from: stephaniec on October 04, 2014, 01:56:45 PM
honestly , I think if we'd stop this nonsense of pass/no pass and come out and show the world we're the same as everyone else. society needs to grow up. there would be no difference with the general population if society would wake up an fulfill its evolutionary potential

today it is just hypothetical , but we need things to change, what do you tell the % that will never "pass " sorry you can't do this because you'll just commit suicide  , so just let those who " pass " through the gate and into the garden.

Quote from: stephaniec on October 06, 2014, 10:40:15 PM
today it is just hypothetical , but we need things to change, what do you tell the % that will never "pass " sorry you can't do this because you'll just commit suicide  , so just let those who " pass " through the gate and into the garden.

Things will eventually. It is changing even now. I won't go into it but there is one industry that is pretty successful for trans women. Since the US is a capitalist country still for the time being, if there wasn't a demand for it, it wouldn't exist.

But we are gaining ground. For now at least.