Hello all, my now 15 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD/Mild Autism at age 4, growing up at around maybe 8 years old, we noticed he started liking a few certain feminine things like the color Pink and would be more comfortable with girls around him. Last September he started having anxiety/depression symptoms and even though I had seeing a Therapist, within the last 2-3 months or so, those symptoms started getting progressively worse. Last month he told myself and his mom that he "sometimes" sees or thinks of himself as a girl and had an online facebook account using a girl's identity but he's so confused as to what he really is or likes and he's tired of having to lie to people and now it all came to a head and attempted suicide 2 times on the same day last week but did not tell us. I twas after hearing him talk of "wishing he was dead" that I told myself enough is enough and took him to the ER which referred him to a Hospital which handles suicide issues.

He is making progress with the meds and strategy at the Hospital so hoping he will be home by the end of this week. The Psychiatrist said to us that usually a child would know at around age 3 or 4 which gender they see themselves at but in mike's case he's not sure and that no one can predict what he will think as he grows up, that he could like boys at one point then he could like girls then he could want a gender change e.t.c. My biggest fear as a Father will be all of the bigotry and hurt he will have to endure the rest of his life by the general public if he should choose not to be a boy so I am seeking any advice/info on what our options are and how best to handle this situation please?

It's pretty well known, at least among us that 41% of us attempt suicide without treatment. That treatment may not be any more than councilling, or it may be a full transition. At a minimum, if I were in your shoes, I would get him to a therapist with experience with transgender youth. Psychology Today has a website which is pretty good for doing those searches. He may end up your son, or she may end up your daughter, or somewhere in between, but isn't that, even with possible discrimination, better than burying him? At 15 there's good hope for an acceptable outcome even with a full transition. Those of us who realized much later have a more difficult time.

there is hope society is making slow  progress , therapy is the best route though.

Quote from: frustratedparent on October 06, 2014, 09:55:28 AM
The Psychiatrist said to us that usually a child would know at around age 3 or 4 which gender they see themselves at but in mike's case he's not sure and that no one can predict what he will think as he grows up, that he could like boys at one point then he could like girls then he could want a gender change e.t.c.

In my case, it was around age 50, so there is a wide range.

Please take the "Sometimes I..." statement seriously. A kid that age might not want to say straight out "I want to be a girl", might try to sugar coat it for you. Make sure he knows you'll believe whatever he says and will not invalidate his perceived gender. Gender is wired into us, and if he's trans, he can't change that. If he is indeed trans, the feeling will not go away, though often kids will try to ignore it for a while.

Quote from: frustratedparent on October 06, 2014, 09:55:28 AM
My biggest fear as a Father will be all of the bigotry and hurt he will have to endure the rest of his life by the general public if he should choose not to be a boy so I am seeking any advice/info on what our options are and how best to handle this situation please?

I transitioned last year. I'm now living as a female in a place where everyone knew me as a male. I am a schoolteacher, so I work with all sorts people.

I have never experienced any bigotry, so it's possible to find places where trans people are well accepted. I'm proud of being transgender and having transitioned. I have a clearer view of both sides of the gendered world than someone who spent their whole life as a male or as a female. I enjoy my life and my job and my family, friends, and coworkers all accept me and respect me as I am.

I recommend reading this short book "Mom, I Need to be a Girl"  written by a mother in your exact position.  It's a free PDF from http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Evelyn/Evelyn.html

What everyone has said so far is spot on.  First step is to find a therapist who has experience with transgender youth.  They will help your son to better understand himself and the feelings he's likely had his whole life, and they'll help you to plan a course of action.

From one father to another, you're doing this the right way.  And I commend you for coming here to seek advice.  This is not something that any of us wanted...but it's the hand we were dealt.  And many of us have been able to move on and have normal, successful lives despite a rough beginning. 

Transition isn't easy.  But it's much easier than it was just 20 or 30 years ago.  Society is different, and there are so many more resources than there have ever been.

Best of luck to you.  And please do keep us updated.

I was perfectly cool with being a boy at that age.  I liked wrestling, comics, cars and all, but there was always a part of me that was disappointed that I was a boy.  I was just too young to understand.  At 10-12 is when I really began to feel that I wanted to be female.  I prayed to god, looked up spells and everything.  I'm 26 right now, but I've really only just begun to realize that I myself am transgendered.  I sort of always thought it was just a curiosity.  In retrospect I can say that I really have no idea if I've ever had a moment in which I didn't hate myself for who I was, or more so who I wasn't but could have been.  I spend most of my time these days dreaming of being 15 again.  At 15, your kid still has a really good chance.  When not dreaming of a squandered youth I'm almost always thinking of killing myself.  I've tried a couple times in the past and got really sick.  I've had a belt tied around my closet coat rack for a couple years now and have, more times than I care to remember, been inside that closet with that very belt tied around my neck.  I want to die.  I don't want to want to die, but I want to die.  It's not because I'm transgendered, it's because I'm transgendered and I didn't get help sooner.

Quote from: frustratedparent on October 06, 2014, 09:55:28 AMMy biggest fear as a Father will be all of the bigotry and hurt he will have to endure the rest of his life by the general public if he should choose not to be a boy so I am seeking any advice/info on what our options are and how best to handle this situation please?

The earlier he/she gets intervention the better. It is good that you are concerned enough about this to seek help. My parents largely tried to suppress it and ignored it. I was deathly afraid of dressing and my dad was irate if my mom or anyone else even put me in clothes that even looked a bit girly.

Also, bigotry is a fact of life... not just for transgendered people. I experience it as a non-white person, and some of it is institutionalized. You learn to deal with it, but if your child is 15 years old and starts transitioning relatively soon (if that is the route that needs to be taken) then chances of living fully in the correct gender are much, much better.

Really appreciate the help everyone! As a father my main wish in life for my 2 boys has always been from day one that they are happy, I have had many small wars with my older son choosing to become a musician instead of and passing on great secure jobs here in NY but he has always told me he 'wants to be happy" so I told him in all honesty as his father and seeking his best interests and security in life I am not 100% happy with his career choice but I will as I have always have supported him 100% in whatever choices made.

With Mike, it's more or less the same deal. I have had arguments with one or two people with Gay children in the past telling them that if any of my 2 boys were to ever turn out to be gay it would be then that they would need my support more than ever because the world will do enough harm to them. This is as mentioned at the heart of my concern, I won't be able to protect him from the stares, snickers, teases and especially here in the heart of NY sometimes bad physical beatings.

@suzifrommd
I am super glad that you are in a good situation but unfortunately here in NY is one THE worst places for a transgender person to live, NY can be a very brutal for less, if Mike should choose to become a girl most likely we would need to leave our family and friends here and move, for his protection, that is the reality.
@ Dee Walker
I will ask the Social worker who is setting up everything for Mike when he comes home to look into a "therapist with experience with transgender youth experience" [thank you very much!] No, burying my son is not an option. The only negative thing my sons have ever accused me of is being "too attached" to them so support from me will never be an issue for as long as I live and breathe.

To everyone here, I would like to also speak with "parents" of transgender kids to get some advice on how I can best handle this situation, any forum or other for this please?

Quote from: frustratedparent on October 06, 2014, 09:55:28 AM
My biggest fear as a Father will be all of the bigotry and hurt he will have to endure the rest of his life by the general public if he should choose not to be a boy so I am seeking any advice/info on what our options are and how best to handle this situation please?

My parents shared the same fears.

Transitioning does have its challenges and difficulties, but probably not as bad as you imagine. There are many (thousands) of us out there living good, happy, productive lives. Its not an automatic life sentence to being hurt, treated poorly and looked down upon. I know so many who are thriving after transition.

But it sounds like this is all still a big if for you and your child. He may not or may not be transsexual.

A qualified gender therapist really is in order I believe. As for what you can do, you seem to be starting in a good direction. Supporting your child to find out what they need is fantastic. Take this time to learn more about the transgender experience so that you can be there for your child.

First of all, welcome to the forums hun.  As you can already see, we're all more than happy to give you as much help and advice on your situation as you need

You obviously don't need me to point out that you've got quite a serious situation on your hands there.  If your son is indeed suffering from Gender Dysphoria then it's clearly going to be a source of frustration for them.  Bear in mind though that ADHD/Autism is also something that can produce significant amounts of frustration, so that does muddy the waters somewhat.

As the others have rightly suggested, get your son in to see a Gender Therapist / Councillor as soon as you can.  They will help bring out your son's true feelings regarding their gender.  They will also help in getting the right treatment to ease (and hopefully ultimately eradicate) the dysphoria, should it turn out that's truly what they are feeling.  That might mean simply therapy, it might mean various degrees of transition.  There are many forms transition can take, and it's not just a case of "boy or girl" either.  A therapist will help them to find out where they need to be, even if it turns out that where they need to be is right where they currently are, or the opposite end of the spectrum, or some shade of grey in between

Also, I'd love to just take a moment to commend you - you're clearly very loving and supportive parents who want to do what's best for your child.  Many around here have not had that support from their families, and would give the world to have had parents like you   I just want you to know that your son (or daughter) will be very appreciative of you for being this way with them.  People like you make the world a better place, don't ever forget that ♥︎*hugs*♥︎

As for a place to speak with parents of trans* children - I don't know any sites off the top of my head, but give me a minute and I'll see what I can dig up.  Hang tight


EDIT: Ok so first of all, you're obviously more than welcome to ask questions here at Susan's.  The Significant Others section is a resource for partners, friends and (most relevant here) family members of trans* people.  It's not specific to trans* children though, so the information you seek may be a little scattered.

Next up, I found this: http://www.transgenderchild.net/resources/support-for-trans-kids-north-east/
It may be worth getting in touch with one of those support groups there (note the New York section in particular - there seems to be quite a few groups right on your doorstep, which is always a good thing )

Finally, there's good old mermaidsuk.org.uk/
It's a UK based organisation, but if you get in contact with them via email, I'm pretty sure they will at least be able to point you in the right direction.

Hope I've been of assistance hun.  All the love in the world to you and your family, and don't hesitate to ask us if you have any further questions ♥︎*hugs*♥︎

*I* knew at 4. I couldn't even hint it to my parents until I was 24. These things aren't black and white, and some people aren't confident enough in themselves or their situations to be able to say definitively. A good trans friendly therapist is a great start, so that either way, your son will feel comfortable no matter what.

Quote from: KiraD on October 06, 2014, 03:52:58 PM
As the others have rightly suggested, get your son in to see a Gender Therapist / Councillor as soon as you can.  They will help bring out your son's true feelings regarding their gender.  They will also help in getting the right treatment to ease (and hopefully ultimately eradicate) the dysphoria, should it turn out that's truly what they are feeling.  That might mean simply therapy, it might mean various degrees of transition.  There are many forms transition can take, and it's not just a case of "boy or girl" either.  A therapist will help them to find out where they need to be, even if it turns out that where they need to be is right where they currently are, or the opposite end of the spectrum, or some shade of grey in between

Thanks for your very kind words and info. Also, thanks for the links, will definitely look into each of them. Well my kids are what I live for, you take their life you take mine, I can't put it any other way. Their happiness is my ultimate goal even though I may not agree with some of the choices they may make in life I have no choice but to fully support them and learn to live with it as long as they don't get into any bad stuff. I will ask the Social worker today to seek out a qualified Gender therapist and will keep you guys up to speed as we go along, thanks for the support everybody!

Quote from: frustratedparent on October 07, 2014, 06:33:22 AM
Thanks for your very kind words and info. Also, thanks for the links, will definitely look into each of them. Well my kids are what I live for, you take their life you take mine, I can't put it any other way. Their happiness is my ultimate goal even though I may not agree with some of the choices they may make in life I have no choice but to fully support them and learn to live with it as long as they don't get into any bad stuff. I will ask the Social worker today to seek out a qualified Gender therapist and will keep you guys up to speed as we go along, thanks for the support everybody!

I think many people would still be here with a parent like you

puberty is often a very stressful time for trangender people. many don't experiemce any dysphoria until their body starts changing away from that of an androgynous child. another problem is that a person's mind usually gets unstable with the changing hormone levels, so even those who are not trangender might grt feelings of wishing they were something else even if that means changing ones sex and kind of eradicate the person they feel uncomfortable with being. it's difficult to know really, and feelings may or may not change with therapy or towards late puberty and adulthood.

i'm really glad to know you care ao much for your child, and i hope you take them seriously enough to also listen when they talk about their therapist being good or bad. a therapist will do no good unless the child feels they're taken seriously and can trust the therapist.

one thing special for children is that they usually aren't permitted to transition even with their parents' consent, for the fear if later regret and that thay may have been wanting transition for other reasons than actually being transgender. what is more oftwn done, is to give hormone blockers in order to stop puberty from changing them too far towards the gender they still may not want to be when they grow up, but without taking them in the other direction either.
just thought you might want to keep that in mind as a way to lessen dysphoria while feelings are still being aorted out, and your child is still to young to legally consent to any largely life changing procedures.

i also would like you and your child to consider the possibility of not being either gender in particular. we are some people here who identify as something other than man or woman, and often go through different changes than the ones yiur stereotypical transsexual individual would do.

i personally have a near 10 years old daughter who says she's half boy and half girl. to me this mostly means i have to be very observant of how puberty affects her and give her options at an early stage, so she knows that the choice exists if she wants to make it. she doesn't experience any dysphoria as far as she tella me, but that might be because i'm accepting both her and him equally.

That's a lot of and very helpful info Taka, thank you very much for sharing! I asked the social worker about getting a Therapist for Mike who specializes in Gender issues but she said "when he goes into therapy all of this will be worked out"? Is she taking this too lightly? I wanted to ask her if it was her child would what she's suggesting suffice but I held back because she is helping us set up a much better system for Mike this time and we need her help. The main problem here with finding a Gender specific therapist here will be  if they will accept our insurance so I may have to end taking whatever I get which means a general therapist.

Good news for now is Mike is scheduled to be released tomorrow morning as they say he's out of danger now which is what I have seen too for the past few days, I can hardly contain myself and I'll get no sleep until he's here tomorrow going back to his normal routine which is bugging me a few times during the course of the day and lying down half on top of me with his head on my chest, I miss those simple things. Having said that, I had joined one forum and one parent of a child with Autism and similar issues had said that "parents cause their child's situation" and I got really steamed at this and had it out with him/her but now I have to wonder? Since day one at birth when he came home from the Hospital he has slept with me, his father and even now 15 years later he still will [not every day] but sometimes come lie down with me on my bed and he nestles up to me in the way a baby chick goes under the mother hen. Mike has always said I way too attached to him

I now have to wonder if my smothering or closeness or whatever you wish to call it may be contributing to the gender confusion? Meaning could my closeness to him may have been sending him a message that I am treating him more like a girl rather than a boy and should I step back? Thing is, I had been the exact same way with my older son who is now 26 with never any gender issues but he didn't have Autism.

A 'general' therapist in this case would likely be no use, other than the fact that if they are good at their job they would be pretty quick at referring you to a gender therapist.

Don't worry, nothing you did contributed in any way to your child's condition. My Father used to/ still does (I'm 18 and still live at home) do the same cuddly over the top fatherly stuff with me as well. Its kinda cute, I have 3 brothers whom he treats exactly the same way, one of whom is autistic and has not had any gender struggles. Nothing you have done or could have done could have possibly altered his/her fate.

when she/he comes back make sure to hug her extra tight
and reassure him/her that its all ok. By the sounds of it she/he is fond of them as well even if she/he won't admit it.
P.S. you sound like an amazing dad by the way

There is no way you can cause your kid to be transgender (or not). But your concerns about the sleeping and/or affection can be addressed through therapy.
I would also ask your social  worker what they mean by "worked out" and what their experience is with Trans youth.

a general therapist might be very good in addition to a gender therapist. your child likely has other problems than just the pissibly transgender feelings. having one to figure out gender and another to deal with other aspects of their mental health could be better than just having one. unless the gender therapist does more than gender therapy.

there is nothing you can do in order to change your child's gender identity. there have been cases where infant boys had their genitals badly mangled, often because of an accident during circumcision, and had their genitals rearranged to appear female. the boys were raised as girls, always told they were girls, treated like girls by family and others. but they still started ibsisting thwy were really boys. it's impossible even for the person themselves to change their internal gender identity.
a person's peraonality can't be changed either, all you can do is try to guide thwm in a direction that will enable them to function well in society and deal with negative aspects of their personality in constructive ways.

something you can affect a whole lot thoughus your child's happiness. letting your child be who they are and like or dislike what they do, rather than pressure them into pretending to be someone else, would be the better way to keep them happy in childhood. a norwegian sociologist who has studied a whole lot of nature/nurture theories and studies, once said something like you can't raise a child into becoming the way you want, but how you raise one will decide whether or not they'll visit you when you grow old and lonely..

you might want to ask your child whether they want you to speak of them as your "son" or not. i consequently use "child" when gender is unknown or undcided (as you've probably noticed). that is because the words that parents and the closest family use to speak about their children often carry a sense of expectation that will easily make a child feel bad ir ashamed that they don't feel like they can live up to the worda you call them by. and when they have told you about their wishes to be something else, calling them the same as befor, will make it sound like you don't take them seriously, or that you don't want them to change.

i will not refer to your child as a son or daughter until you can tell me what they want. my own daughter still wants to be refered to by female pronouns and words, but i only know this because we've talked about it. she considers herself both my son and daughter though, so i'll have to ask her once in a while in case she changes her mind and suddenly wants male pronouns. she has a male name which she can use whenever she wants, the one she'd been given if she were born with male genitals. do you have an option like that to offer your child?