Quote from: adrian on October 15, 2014, 05:23:27 AM
I just wanted to recommend Sam Killerman's book on gender. it's a free e-book available from his page itspronouncedmetrosexual.com.

Thanks, Adrian for the recommendation.

Great topic!
So here's me, jumping in.
I'm a product of the 70s and 80s. 
Here's an embarrassing factoid.  I didn't know what transgender was until about 6 months ago.  Yeah, really.  Apparently, I live under a rock.  By accident, (are there really accidents?),  I saw a youtube video of a guy pre-T to 2year T  and my stomach dropped.  it was like --hey! That's me!  Or could be me?  Or something?  Anyway, I got fascinated and watched hours and hours and hours of videos.  And then did a lot of thinking and talking it out with my bff who is really proving that she is an extraordinary woman. (she had to learn what transgender was, too.  Then she says, of course you are!) 

So, anyway: 
My mantra growing up is 'Gender doesn't matter.'    Remember, I've been saying this since the first time my 1st grade teacher told me girls  couldn't stand on desks, only boys could.  And my mom, feminist that she was, said girls could do anything boys could do.  So, apparently, that's how I've protected my psyche all these years. 

Yes, I think like a guy.  Explaining it makes me sound like I believe in stereoptypes (which I don't--repeating mantra, Gender doesn't' matter.)  Okay.  I'm starting to kinda believe in stereotypes.   Because I'm starting to see patterns.  I have very few friends that are girls. I am very logical.  I have to fake emotional swings to fit in with 'the girls' and be accepted by many of 'the guys' who need a feminine around to define their masculine.  I make these guys uncomfortable as they try to do masculine things for me like tell me I'm cute and open doors for me.  They make me uncomfortable, too. 

For the guys that don't need that femme to play off of, I'm definitely one of them. When I'm around the women that exude femininity, I move out of their circle (physically) and my mind drifts as they talk.  I just can't do that much emotional swing.  It makes me itch and twitch and I need to back away.  Around those women (and most women) I feel very protective.  I'm not very big, physically, but I am ready and in 'watch mode' and have often caught myself opening bottles and doors, picking up stuff, etc, without thinking about it.  Protection/herding mode.

Did I mention that I'm an engineer.  Very male dominated field, right?  I've been an engineering supervisor in the past, too.   That femme/not femme stuff gets interesting there.   

Here's the funny thing--about that scent or vibe that Taka talks about.  When the guys I work with get comfortable enough w/ me,  many of them treat me like one of the guys.  I can tell when their  protection/herding mode drops (which is a total relief!) and they don't even think of  opening a door for me or offering to carry my gear.  I live in the deep South. Those manners are ingrained from the cradle. It's some powerful stuff when the guys forget their manners because their psyche is telling them I'm one of them.

So, how did I explain all this to my repressed self all these years?  'Gender doesn't matter.'  But, you see, it does.  It matters that I'm the protector and not the protected. Otherwise, I feel like I'm not fulfilling my purpose.  It matters in a lot of other ways, too, but that's the one I'll talk about for this too-long post.

So, anyway, ever since I said the words out loud, to my empty room, 'I am transgender', I've felt this huge relief.  Like I'm not guilty of being wrong anymore.  Like all the pretending I've been doing, pretending to like girl things and act and feel girl ways, is not because I'm doing something wrong, it's because I've had to do it to survive.  And now, I am taking painfully slow, logical, calculated steps to no longer have to pretend.  Some days (more hours than days, really), when I am surrounded by the two friends who 'know the real me', when I don't have to pretend to be a girl--On those days, I feel sheer bliss.  I didn't know that kind of happy existed.

So, I am a guy.  Transgendered.  Through hormone flood in the uterus, or DNA or fairy dust or whatever.    I'm not rebelling on purpose to make my mother uncomfortable (notice how I throw this in at the end so I didn't have to say too much about it!).  This is just the way I was put together.  And soon, as soon as I can make it happen, I'm going to go after that bliss full time.

End of too long post!
Chris   

(edited for spelling)

Quote from: Taka on October 15, 2014, 06:53:44 AM
i'm not buying it either, but mostly because it's not for sale.
even the free versions are flawed, if tested against society's standards.

Thanks, that made me smile, which is rare these days As the saying goes, there's no such thing as a free ... gender role.

Chris, I'm having the same internal debates - I'm still trying to figure out what makes me (want to) act and dress in a certain way, and why I have done so even before I had figured out that I'm trans (I had a similar epiphany as you did not too long ago). So how do I reconcile my desire to be perceived as an average male and my wish to subvert gender stereotypes? Argh!

really interesting post, chris!

it's an interesting feeling when guys drop their guard around you and forget you're of female build. doesn't happen to all. some are weirded out, others never manage to see past the exterior (or the genitals which they don't even see).

the smell thing is something that can make forming sexual or romantic relationships difficult. some gay men only get attracted to men who smell like men. doesn't matter if they look and act male. some women probably have it the same way. or hrt could change a spouse's level of attraction. these things are unfortunately impossible to know from person to person. it could be that very strict monosexuality is actually not as frequent as general monosexuality. i don't think any research has been done on this yet, outside confirming that smelling male pheromones will trigger a reaction in the part of the brain that seems to control sexuality, in androsexual people.

Be you.

Quote from: White Rabbit on October 15, 2014, 09:48:49 AM
Be you.

I've got to admit here, White Rabbit, that being me sometimes takes some thinking and self-discovery.  I have to question if many of my first inclinations are from societal learning/survival/approval or if they are really me.  I'm also having to make sure I don't go stereotypical macho to prove a point to myself or others.  Throwing in that I'm a gay guy who looks like a girl doesn't help with that much.  Layers upon layers of society expectation and years of conditioning have taken a heavy toll on who I am.  It's kind of amazing there's anything of me left, really.  I definitely sympathize with the OP.  I've been through some heavy months of self-questioning and enough inner turmoil to make my stomach roil twenty-four/seven for a while.   Lots of trying to compromise with myself of maybe I can keep all this in and nothing will change.  Yet I am changing in attitude and in body (even pre-T, mind over matter is working here. Disclaimer: I take female level T due  to medical  hysterectomy, but I have for a few years now and no physical changes until recently.)   And I haven't even gotten to the transition and out stages of this yet. 

So, to the OP, I've had moments of total panic with this revelation.  The hardest part is finding who I am.  My litmus test is, do I feel relaxed or anxious internally even if I'm not comfortable breaking the norm?  I'm still looking for a large part of me that I stuffed in a safe box before I even started kindergarten, but am having an easier time recognizing what makes me less anxious,  more content, and more balanced. 

So, OP, best of luck to you on figuring this out! You are not alone in your confusion and unrest!  For me, looking back, while not every day is better, every week has been an improvement in my peace of mind.

Chris

I must admit I was getting ready to write a long post trying to be supportive without coming across as insensitive and I realized most of what I was trying to say could be summed up in 2 words. To expand a little bit on what I meant. Find out what makes you happiest, in the end that is who you were meant to be. If what makes you happy changes day to day that is also who you were meant to be.

I unfortunately understand how you feel. I've been struggling with this myself, even before going on T. I constantly feel like I'm damned either way. My parts won't be functioning like a cis male's, yet I feel ridiculously uncomfortable being in female spaces, even those with butch lesbians because, honestly, I don't think I've ever seen myself as female. It sucks to be a part of this straddling fence. Some people can easily say "It doesn't matter about chromosomes, defects happen and I know who I am", and I honestly wish I could too, but when you're in a world (especially in an ethnic culture) that's constantly putting you in 1 of 2 boxes and explaining why it must be so, it's hard to really understand our point of view. This is honestly something you (and I) will have to work out for ourselves. Something that's slowly been helping me is the fact that we only have 75ish years on this earth. Do we really want to be on our death beds wondering what life would've been like if we didn't have this cloud of discomfort toward our anatomy hanging over us? Will what others think truly matter when it's said and done? Science isn't all-knowing as can be shown from the changes from homosexuality being a mental disorder to a sexuality. More and more evidence is surfacing that despite physical anatomy, trans people have brains that resemble that of the sex they wish to transition to. Idk if this helps, but I truly hope you do find peace in the end.

Watching this thread as someone very similar to the OP, with the same doubts and fears. I didn't know, I don't know, and I'm scared, I'm really scared. What is it that makes me think that I cross the line from boi to boy? Tomboy to man? Is it just because I want a dick? Because jesus christ, self, you ain't never gonna have one, not like you want.

I can't pretend I've always felt male. I'm glad there are some who have always known, b/c the daily grind of panic I feel over it is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But at the same, shamefully, I'm sick-in-my-gut jealous. I hate this. I hate myself for this. I really believe that if I knew who I was, I'd reach out and go for it, embrace it, take charge of my life, but I don't have anything concrete. Just a lot of wasted time in front of a mirror.

I'm a girl. I know I'm a girl. I want to be a girl! Except, I'm just ... not. This is really, really weird, but I swear to god, some days (MOST DAYS) I feel closer to MTF than FTM. Like I'm a girl, or I'm trying to be, but all anyone can see is a man in a dress. It's a spooky feeling, because I'm an XX female without any masculine features ( ). I know that when people look at me while I'm dressed as female, they're not "seeing through my disguise," and they're not about to point and shout. But. God, I don't know. I don't know. When I bind and pack, I still feel like a transparent try-hard, just in the other direction. Too short, too babyfaced, unreal and all wrong.

I'm sorry you're struggling, thereishope. I hope the answers come soon.