Curious what our social presentations are as opposed to what it would be with no social pressures.

Thoughts dear ones?

,Nails out hair growing...
Satinjoy

with no social pressure, i would not censor my speech.
i think that is the only part of my social presentation which is restricted.
i'm not thinking of swearing more, that is unnecessary.
it's just that there are things i can't say or talk about simply because i am seen as a woman.
it confuses people, and can make them turn away from me.

of course, other things would be different too if transitioning were easier.
but i do present my own way within the limitations of my own body.

If there was absolutely no social pressure or judgment whatsoever, I would present as more feminine. I would grow my hair long again while shaving it from much of the rest of my body. I'd go for a more androgynous or feminine wardrobe and experiment with makeup/cosmetics. I'd probably ask people to switch pronouns, or actually, in this ideal world, I wouldn't even need to ask.  I am sure that my speech mannerisms, voice tone, level of expression, hand gestures, etc. would be different. Last, I would consider hrt.

At the moment, I present as 100% male/masculine.

With no social pressure, no judgement, and no "it's not halloween" comment? I'd dress however I want whenever I want. If I had no dysphoria to boot, it would be even better.
I'd dress like a pirate. I'd dress in patchwork, piebald rags like the vocalist from In Extremo. I'd wear long skirts because long skirts are hot as f*** on guys in an "I want to look like that" way not to mention comfy. And somedays I'd still wear the jeans and band shirts I've been wearing lately.

the devil king wears skirts, edge. i'd love to see those things on more guys.
i've forced two guys into a halloween black widow dress. one looked very feminine, and kind of terrified and uncomfortable in it (fear of not being man enough).
the other was my brother, a guy who sees no reason to fear female clothing because there's no way they make him into a woman. looked great in it, but nothing other than manly. even with the long curly hair.

come to think of it... if there was no pressure at all, i'd be wearing so much more than i am now. or less, if i could get rid of boobs.
pirate is one thing, but about about vampire, corpse, or pan?
or just a demon king. something heavy metal at least.

I'd wear long skirts too, something I've always wanted to do. Other than that I am myself full time presenting androgynously as I wish to for the day, sometimes more and sometimes less.

Quote from: Taka on October 19, 2014, 01:44:59 PM
pirate is one thing, but about about vampire, corpse, or pan?
or just a demon king. something heavy metal at least.

Not sure what you mean by pan or demon king, not that interested in corpse, and vampire depends on the vampire. I may go back to liking eighteenth century aristocratic type clothing, but for now, it's a little too fancy for me.
I like a more rough, feral, trollish look. Or pirate.

Quote from: Taka on October 19, 2014, 01:44:59 PM
the devil king wears skirts, edge. i'd love to see those things on more guys.
i've forced two guys into a halloween black widow dress. one looked very feminine, and kind of terrified and uncomfortable in it (fear of not being man enough).
the other was my brother, a guy who sees no reason to fear female clothing because there's no way they make him into a woman. looked great in it, but nothing other than manly. even with the long curly hair.

The guys I knew who wore skirts didn't look feminine. They just looked hot. My favourite was probably the guy with the dreads and the long, patchwork skirt. That was cool.

pan is pan. kind of a god.
a demon king looks something like demon kogure. you'll find him and seikima-ii on youtube.
corpse is just something i'd like to try. looking dead, not rotten.
any vampire is good, as long as it doesn't glitter.

the guys i've seen who wear skirts of their own free will all looked like men. not feminine, unless they intended it so.
i hope you'll get to a point where you're comfortable in skirts. they're awesome on guys. some guys even look better in them.

Quote from: Taka on October 19, 2014, 02:12:30 PM
pan is pan. kind of a god.

The greek dude? I don't think I have the legs to pull that off.

i don't either, but with no prejudice, i'd still try.

Quote from: Taka on October 19, 2014, 02:12:30 PM
the guys i've seen who wear skirts of their own free will all looked like men. not feminine, unless they intended it so.
i hope you'll get to a point where you're comfortable in skirts. they're awesome on guys. some guys even look better in them.

Skirts is where I veered off the path of the One True Manliness* a decade ago, which eventually led me to the Unicorn Forest.  (Try googling "contra dance men in skirts" sometime.)  I now only wear pants ("trousers" for the UKers) when I have to.

To answer the question in the OP:

I think I would wear "girlier" clothes -- more ruffles, lace, bows, etc., maybe try adapting Lolita or "little girl" fashions to fit my shape.  I'm working on it, but the fear of being cast into outer darkness for being just too weird holds me back more than anything else.

I might work on making my body look a little more feminine: shaving or removing body hair (electrolysis of neck and facial hair is already on my to-do list.)  Actually, I might be more willing to try some M-to-F body modifications if I weren't afraid of looking like a failed attempt at looking female, since I don't like seeing the more masculine aspects of my body.

I also wish I felt free to say how I feel and to touch people more.  I'm very conscious that because I'm seen as male, a lot of the things I feel would, if expressed, be taken as more intrusive or threatening than if I weren't seen as male.

I wish I felt okay with expressing vulnerability or neediness.  Or just wanting some attention.  ("He just wants attention" was a popular put-down in my family.)

There's also how I interact with men.  I wish I could feel free to simply be myself.  Unfortunately, the way men tend to interact with men triggers my "I'm going to get hassled for not being sufficiently manly" defenses.  This mainly means reining in any behavior which could be interpreted as weak or vulnerable and getting myself psychologically ready to defend myself from attack.

[Edited to add:]
* -- Actually, what happened a decade ago was that I stopped trying to pass as male.

I think I hinted at this in a topic this morning in another forum here.

If I could be anything, with no social pressures, and could pull it off physically and mentaly, I'd be perfectly androgynous, and be able to pass as any gender I felt like.. I sense myself very much lately feeling that way, sliding back and forth between feeling more male, and feeling female..

That is the source of the dysphorea I feel sometimes, my body not being able to follow my gender moods back and forth, and I have no idea how to solve that dilemma.

i feel that same problem, mark. a short curvy body doesn't pass well as male.

if physically possible, i'd present as everything thinkable (and some unthinkables for many or most).
not at the same time though, that would be a bit much.

if presentation were respected, i'd be doing that already.
but people don't look at my presentation to determine my gender at any given time.
they take it from their memory, and believe it will be true every single day of my life.
doesn't make sense to me, but that's just how people are.

I pretty much do my own thing and then pull it off with a fair old dose of skate punk attitude.

Seriously contemplating going all tank girl with my hair, but it would mean losing the locs.

Quote from: Taka on October 19, 2014, 03:53:36 PM
if presentation were respected, i'd be doing that already.
but people don't look at my presentation to determine my gender at any given time.
they take it from their memory, and believe it will be true every single day of my life.
doesn't make sense to me, but that's just how people are.

Yeah, I get that sometomes to..

Our genders seem more flexible than most peoples minds.!

Thanks Taka.

I'm exactly who I want to be.

I am doing more than I have and less than I want to do or will do.

I rushed into ffs and transition level hrt which required a considerable rethink and surgery  (bilateral breast reduction) when I realised that I was non binary.  I won't do this again.  Each step is conscious.  I now test my footing before I transfer my weight.  Beard removal, tick.  Longer hair, tick.  Manicured nails, tick. Andro brows, tick. More andro casual clothing, tick.  Experimenting with tinted lashes, brows and neutral makeup, tick.

At the same time I can't help wondering why I need to be concerned with my presentation.  Why isn't nuance sufficient for me, why must I really go to an extreme to be seen to be or recognised as, non binary/ andro when a female presenting andro would dress identically to me without going to an extreme?

Complicating this, is a growing sense that I feel most authentic when I respond to different folk and to different situations in different ways ie my identity and expression are situationally influenced or dependent.  This sounds a lot like gender fluid.  If this is the case then I suspect that I will over time wish to present socially as I feel is appropriate to my mood and to my situation, masculine, andro, queer and feminine.  Sounds like I may need to need to extend my wardrobe

Safe travels

Aisla

I'd burn give away my suits and get away with doing laundry less often (because dresses).  If we can generalize freedom beyond just non-binary, I'd also wear shorts (instead of pants) a lot more, because I have a much easier time acquiring comfortable good-fitting cargo shorts than cargo pants.  I'd also start racking up a more substantial dry-cleaning bill, but it'd be worth it.

I dress, and live pretty much as I wish to.  Today I went to a drag show.  I looked better than the queens.    Yesterday I was wearing rubber boots, jeans and a sweat shirt for working in the garden.  At work I wear jeans, sport shirts, skirts and tops, leggings and boots. Drag and drab.  With me, nobody seems to care much.  I like that.   

My body is pretty feminine,  my face not so much.  But I seem to be ambiguous enough that I pass either way when I want to.  I just recently discovered this.  It surprised the hell out of me.  I use the women's rest room though.  I'm actually a little afraid of the men's side and isn't that odd?

Julie

   I pretty much echo Julie's thoughts. Dress feminine all the time except when working ( see avatar) even then my nails are painted , and I am wearing comfortable under garments.Have not been in a male restroom since coming out (can't stand pee on the seat ) the girls room is so much cleaner. My two sides are at peace and happy with each other which moved me to NB which is great.I am able to present as a feminine male or as I always do an ugly female.Freedom is wonderful and I love it, the ability to be who I always was, an exhilarating unbelievable feeling  saying I am happy is totally and understatement.   Patty