Whelp, here's some nasty thing that I've just realized: I've been helping this gal come to terms with herself, start dressing, you know-she's in the very early stages of accepting who she is, and is a very repressed person right now.  She doesn't take care of herself, doesn't put any effort into how she presents herself, and is deeply depressed.  However, she won't admit to that.  She's in complete and total denial about how depressed and repressed she is.  And...I sort of hate being around her.  We have nothing in common.  She's obsessed with animae, has no sense of humor, having a conversation with her is like trying to squeeze water out of a stone.

I don't feel any attachment to her other than the fact that she needs me.  And we wouldn't be friends otherwise, that's for sure!  Being around her just depresses me SO much, and I'm getting to the point where I can't keep helping her.  And I'm beginning to give up on her.  She is just so, so repressed...I can't see her ever transitioning, to be honest.  I can't see her ever changing, she's so resistant to it, even though she admits she needs too!  Anyhow.  Yeah.  I hate her, and she's probably gonna die if I don't help out.  Fun times!

i m a bit like your friend , i believe there are cis women who can be depressed like that too and would put little effort in their presentation , do you know why she is deppressed or does she knows ?

I mean, she's not transitoned.  Not at all, she's just waiting for her mother to give permission which is never gonna happen.  She's depressed because she's stuck in guy mode, gonna stay that way forever probably.  I think she's given up on herself.  I'd love to give up on her myself.

she still lives with her mother ? does she sees a therapist ? maybe she needs to do things slowly (i m just saying that because i needed),maybe she is scared of the reaction of her mother without her permission ?

No.  She's a sudent...but doesn't really have any friends, and it way to close to her mother.  She sees a therapist, not a gender one.  I doubt she has access to a gender one (I can't find one close enough).  Yup, she's scared, but isn't getting that permission.  I just wish she could be her OWN PERSON for ONCE.  And could hold a conversation.  it's like pulling teeth.

how is her mother about her "trans issues" other than not giving permission, does she knows or consider her a daughter ,, its possible she rely a lot on her mother emotionaly and for life other than theses issues and that she does not wants to lose that

Hmm. It sounds like she's got to figure out what she wants. I'd suggest pointing out that you really dont have very much in common with her but your there When she needs help with "Taking the next step" but she needs to figure out what that is - you can't force it on a person. Maybe she's just not ready yet. Also don't burn yourself out on a relationship where you have different priorities. Think of it as offering fashion advice to a friends little sister.  You don't have to be BFFs.

Try setting her expectations with things that you'd help her with. And let her know that you don't really like anime just like she doesn't like getting a mani-pedi once a month (or what ever - mostly to make a point) but you'd be happy to help with dealing stuff like with family rejection (? Or what ever)

I did the androgynous thing for many years, then I got tired of being broke, cut my hair and lost myself in the corporate world, then after almost 8 years I relized I needed to take the next step. Sometimes it takes time to realize you're not screwed up, you're just You - so enough with the guilt and self hate.

Just my 2 cents worth...

  Ello, and thank you for putting effort into her!
Protege, but introduce her to more queer folk..
She is not truly a protegè if she does not identify with your route..
I honestly am in transition, and I am feeling myself out.
Sure, we may identify a certain way. But our outcome as to who we be-come.. Takes time
Respected time at that.. People could claim I am confused.. But shoot, I am happy no matter the look on my face.
Others, COUNTLESS others have doubted my identity and authenticity of my transition..
She can be a very sensitive and talented person, who not just has to figure out her transition, gender, sexual orientation.. she has life.. and this world is figuring it out, but also lost in its on bs.. Give her time.. Be honest.. Tell her your concerns honestly.. I "secretly" have been visiting this site for years, I would dislike to come across seeking help to have it brought to me through self discovery..
She is needs time.. Months, Years or days..

Just saying if she wants a full beard and to wear a dress, mix feminine and masculine clothing, shave bald, whatever.. Being "fishy", "passing" is a societal pressure expected to be a goal amongst our community.. Not a good or bad.. Just if we push certain agendas upon others, and to shame others.. Or be ashamed of OUR family...

Take time, be away from her.. But then again, you will figure it out.. It will come.. What to do or not.

Much Love 

Also just to clarify.. Feeling myself meaning: I have traits and mannerisms that are undesireably masculine.. But that can be due to lack of experiencing my full femininty and plain laziness.. Feeling it out.. Is meta to me.. Comprehending what I do not like.. Setting goals.. and naturally growing within.. in return becoming me.. wherever me is.. but ultimately reaching my Ulimate Feminine!

Is she a local, or someone you only deal with online?

I have been in some similar situations, but I think my tolerance for people is probably abnormally high.

I have found in people who are resistant to loving themselves, and doing what they want to do to better themselves, one of the best things that can be done is to push them with peer pressure, get a group that they can be a part of, that can support their confidence for them....It is a fragile thing to be sure when one doesn't have lots of confidence. My friends really pushed me, when I felt I wasn't quite ready, but it turns out I really was ready, I just didn't want to admit it to myself, since it was scary and new.

I don't know if any of that helps, helping her out is a good thing, but ultimately, don't let yourself get depressed over it. I do my best to help people, but I care about myself more than anyone certainly, and I think that is only reasonable.

Fifi/Kova-This goes beyond advice.  She's cried in my arms more than a few times before...this isn't "what should I wear" level of issues here.  She's dealing with a lot of heavy stuff, and repressing her trans-ness has really messed her up in a lot of ways.  But despite that, she just can't bring herself to take the next step.  She wants to transition, but just can't get out of her shell.  I'm not trying to impose anything on her, but seeing just how stunted a person she is, you'd understand what I mean when I say she needs to start transitioning now, or at least expressing her femmimity in some way  Right now, she expresses NOTHING.  Literally, completely nothing-no thoughts, no feelings, nothing.  I'm not trying to impose anything on her at all, but she needs a nudge and a hand to hold.  And I've helped her a bit so far, but she's too scared of the next step, and waiting isn't going to make her any more emotionally ready.  She doesn't want to deal with this, but she needs to.  It's killing her.

Hikari-She's a local, a student here.  Which means there isn't much distance to speak of...  I don't know, if not for the fact that she would never be able to make it on this road without someone to help her (and sadly there are no other trans women on this campus who aren't absolute bitches) she'd probably end up-I don't want to think about it.  And yeah, that's exactly what she does need.  But I can't really get that for her.  I don't have any friends I see (regularly) on this campus (or, probably people who can even tollerate me), which is another huge problem I need to deal with, but yeah...I can't provide her with that.  We have an LGBT group, but it's all very impersonal/I don't have time to go with her and make sure she actually talks about gender stuff.   

I've experience a similar situation and I found out that someone that isn't putting in the needed effort isn't going to succeed. It's great to help a friends in need, but there comes a point where they have to willing to make that effort. Sometimes people are professional victims and they like the attention of being helped, but always want conflict and don't want to stay in a non-conflict situation by either putting no effort or getting themselves into conflicts that could have been avoided.

I had a protegè so to speak that I also experienced similar issues. She is 25, served as a marine, divorced with a 18 month boy that the mother has full custody 600 miles away in NC. We met on a Facebook NJ Trans group and just started talking. She started HRT 2 months after I did, but hadn't gone full time yet. She was living at home and going back to school and active on the campus LGBT group. Her parents weren't the most accepting, and only tolerated her transitioning. There was a month period where she stayed at her god parents who are very accepting, but moved back. She kept wanting to go to support groups and every time one came up, it was always some excuse. Especially if it was in Manhattan, she would claim that she was scarred of being attacked for being trans even though the support group was in the LGBT Center in Manhattan in the Gayborhood and I offered to drive and park a block away. (I take the Train or Subway all the time and never had an issue.) I did finally get her to one, but she didn't talk much and said she didn't like it. (It was a very diverse group and I found out later, her father was a racists and she was uncomfortable with different ethnic groups.) Her issues were more personal non-trans issues than anything else. She always complained about no money, but every time a job opportunity came up, there was always an excuse. She complained about not passing and all she needed was to stop smoking (an expensive habit) a more feminine hair cut (it was already long enough). It wouldn't take much effort, but I started to realize that she was just lazy. Her HRT was being paid by the VA.

Anyway, the only time she wanted to go out dressed was to a gay or trans friendly bar to drink. My wife went out once with her and a friend of hers. Another time she wanted to go to a very friendly trans bar and I changed plans for her to only have her cancel the last minute with a lame excuse. A week later I try to message her on FB about a PLAG meeting she had been wanting to go to and her FB account was gone. I texted her and she said she was no longer that person and they they were now known as <old male name>. I though someone was playing a joke, but no, they shaved their head (military style) and said that they were only transitioning to hurt their parents. I did find out that it was really her that basically de-transitioned just like that.

I did offer for them to talk if things changed and just kind of left it at that. I do feel she is trans, but isn't ready yet. I learned that you can only help help someone that want help themselves. They have to do the work and can't have everyone do the work for them.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't help, but you should limit the help. I've helped many other transgender women with resources, advice, relationships and I only had this one go wrong. Just know when to limit things so your energy isn't wasted.

maybe her shell and being scare to come out of it and her being depressed is her way to express her feminity , maybe she just need to repaint it or talk of it,

I'm sorry, I didn't understand. So you're also her 1-person support group in addition to the mentor/protégée thing? Wow and it sounds like she is at a really hard point in life. I can see how that could make you go a bit crazy. It sounds like she really needs you but it also defiantly sounds like you could use a tag-team partner for helping her get though things.

Could you help her with finding and scheduling an appointment with a therapist? Some places will offer aide to people who can't afford it.

Are there any support groups around that you could both go to for alleviating some of stress that's driving you crazy? It helps to hear what other people are going through and that could help crack her shell. If she's as closed off as it sounds, she may not be open to sharing her problems at first.

Good luck girl

children usually act needy when their mother is around.
you being easily available might be a reason why this woman keeps doing nothing.

sometimes tough love is needed.
you provide options, but leave it up to her to make use of whatever help is available.

limit the time you have available. she's using you.
it would be one thing if she was desperate for a moment.
but this sounds like she's just using you every time she feels a little down.

kids only learn independence when they're left on their own.
give small tasks, offer to talk after the task is done.
give praise for any positive behavior, be cold and uncaring about the negative.
be compassionate when things are bad, but make sure you always have something else to do when she clings just to cling.

think about it as training a dog, if you take on this woman any further.
or recommend her to go to someone who does cognitive behavioral therapy.
her problems are more than you can take on alone, and the current therapist doesn't seem to be of much help.


sorry for being cold about this, but i've seen this kind of behavior before.
professional victims are very effective energy vampires. they'll suck you dry in no time if you let them.
it is necessary to tell them that their life is never going to change unless they do something to change it.
you can't be the magical "something" that they keep waiting for to happen in their life.
nobody has ever suddenly woken up as their desired gender.

life is not an anime, and that is exactly what makes it possible for us to be whatever we want to be.
but it also gives us responsibility for our own lives.

will you feel responsible if this woman does the unthinkable?
if the answer is yes, alert medical professionals both at school and in other places, and hand the responsibility over to them.
i don't want to see you let another person ruin you.
some attempt suicide in order to hurt people, an act of misplaced bitterness, blaming others for their own inability to take the steps needed to get a better life.
it's a result of mental problems that can be treated, but treatment should be left up to professionals when it's that severe.

support when you can, but without exhausting yourself.

Just jumping in here, but Taka, that sounds like reasonable advice and Sydney_NYC has a good point. It does seem like there are many other issues getting in her way. Maybe those issues are caused by the underlying issue of gender, but maybe not.

What I see on top of this is that she is seeing a therapist now. Gender specialist or not, there doesn't seem to be much progress on that level. androgenouspainter, how does she feel about the therapy she's receiving? I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly, that she's seeing a therapist because her mother sees issues. Is the mother thinking the therapy is to 'fix' her gender issues? Does this girl think she's making any progress; does she feel good about the therapy; is she opening up at all with the therapist and about what?

There just seems to be far more questions than answers here. This is a situation where you want to be helpful; what a wonderful thing! You want to be a friend, confidante, mentor, adviser, whatever and yet you're feeling stymied on so many levels. It sounds like you are trying to weigh what you can do for her against what trying to help is doing to you. Giving up on her now - if that is needed - doesn't mean that you're a failure nor does it mean doom for this girl. A good therapist hopefully could make progress with this girl's issues. If there is no progress, that person may not be a good match for this girl or her issues may be so huge and complex a lifetime of therapy may be needed just to keep her going day to day even without noticeable progress.
If the issues are huge, helping her in any meaningful way may be beyond the scope you or any non-professional can give. You could be a support, but you don't seem to feel a connection other than through the TG relationship.

Another question. Does she continue to come to you or are you seeking her out to help her? Maybe you're the cub scout helping an old lady across a street she doesn't really want to cross. Maybe the old lady was just watching the cars go by... You can't help this girl do something she doesn't really want to do at this time. Have you tried to help her set her own goals (not what you think is right) and develop even a rudimentary sense of timeline? If you can get her to think long term, then help her break that down into smaller steps that she can buy into, then further break things down to one tiny thing she feels she could accomplish this week. If she can't or won't even do the smallest thing, then helping her is beyond your ability but more importantly her own ability to help herself. On the other hand, if you can get her to take even the tiniest step that she can buy into...and if she can see success in that one tiny step, there may be hope for a next tiny step.

You may have to go to what Taka suggests to get her moving. If she won't respond to that, you probably need to be firm with her and tell her you're willing to help when she's willing to make an effort herself. Then you may need to walk away, proud of yourself for having done all you possibly could do, even if you're sad that she was unable to do for herself. Good luck!!

Hi Painter

Morally, the answers to this situation are those which only you can provide.  Practically, this person has a therapist and, together with the therapist, they should be developing coping mechanisms at the very least.

If someone is paralysed through depression or a deep fear of moving forward/backward/anywhere there are very few options.

A pep talk is one option, but I think it may be useful to consider accompanying her to a session with her therapist and, frankly, performing a handover.

You're a professional artist, not a therapist.  Many of us try to mentor, but we can't help those who aren't willing to help themselves.

Julia

Perhaps you could encourage her to travel. Traveling is great medicine, and being alone in the world might be great for her.

Im sorry

Well if you need a third person to hang out with who is Trans maybe to act like a buffer or peer pressure I might be available. I mean if you are in Baltimore that isn't far for me.