Quote from: Bunter on October 21, 2014, 07:02:39 AM
CT-
I think your posts almost deserve their own thread. It's really an important story to share.

Did you feel you were pushed into transition? Or was it just youthful enthusiasm?

I'm the older generation where everything was done to not let anyone transition, it was forbidden to even start before the age of 23 if I remember rightly. It was a horror story to be trans 30 years ago. Nowadays, as much as I am happy that people have it so much easier, I sometimes get the feeling that some people get pushed into transitioning out of misinformation or something.

For one thing, we live in very gender conforming times again. Gender variance is not seen as normal variation, but rather it's all "trans(sexual)". Even many butches and drag queens get pushed towards transition at early ages, which is a bit of a 180° turnaround from the situation in the early 1980s (not that that situation was better).

Then, there is no identity for gender variant "straight" people. While you can live as butch or drag queen, without transitioning, there is no such choice if you are "straight", esp. if you are an ftm cross dresser or gender variant. Tomboy is not really seen as a viable transgender identity for adults.
Also, straight cross dressers are in some way much more stigmatized and invisible than gay or lesbian cross dressers.

And all the talks about "trans brain" that you have in the US often gives the impression that if someone has "male brain" or "female brain", this is like a diagnosable physical condition that means you *must* transition, instead of one way to deal with gender variance.

The decision to transition should in all cases be something that we make ourselves, not something that others tell us. Especially not when they feel a person is somehow "different", a square peg, and by transitioning, that person would fit in better with the gender binary.
And we should be really aware that transitioning is only *one* way of being trans or gender variant.

I would be happy to write a complete post if a Mod might sticky it, that way I could tell my story all in a row, include everything, and it wouldn't be bits and pieces scattered throughout other threads. If so, someone just PM me and I will make a new thread and include everything I can, and really take my time to write it well. Just wondering, but are we allowed to name specific institutions? I think it's important people be aware of what they're walking into if they go to the same place I went for care...

This odyssey began when someone close to me told me they thought that I was a transsexual. I was very insistent that this was not the case - I'd often thought about how things would be 'if I was a boy' or if reincarnation was real and I were male in a past life, things of that sort, but I had never given myself the label of 'transsexual'. Yet the person was very persistent and pointed out to me the fact that many of the clothes I liked (baggy jeans, baseball hats, tank tops and t-shirts, etc) were men's clothing, that the tattoos I wanted were masculine, and that I liked having short hair and very badly wanted a mohawk although at the time I was not able to have one. He pointed out that I didn't like girly stuff or have positive feelings toward women, among other things. After arguing about it for some time, I began to see the 'evidence' piling up all around me - indeed, it did seem that I must be a guy mentally if not physically.

When I went to see a counselor and told her about my childhood, the things I liked, and my feelings toward women and men, she only met with me that one time and wrote me the name of a clinic where I could go for transgender care - meaning hormones. At this point I had never been diagnosed officially with GID but she said I seemed like I was serious and did not need to continue coming all the way to her (a state away from me) when the other place was closer. Note, she did not write me a letter of recommendation, did not give me a diagnosis, and did not contact the clinic for me. She simply told me to call myself.

At that clinic, I was evaluated on one occasion by a person who turned out to be an FtM themselves... that individual talked to me for less than one hour and I told him I felt like I was a transsexual, and that when I was a child kids had mistaken me for a boy because I'd had short hair and worn baggy jeans and t-shirts, etcetera, and that I liked men's clothing and wanted tattoos and all that. At no point did the person ever tell me that maybe I was not a transsexual. They never asked me if I thought it was okay for girls to like those things too, or if maybe I could be happy expanding my idea of what was acceptable for women to wear or look like. Instead, they reassured me that if I took testosterone I could look 'just like a normal man' (I had feared that I would not, especially because at the time I was 108lb and just under 5'4... nope! All I got was reassurance - the counselor told me that I DID NOT NEED to undergo a year of therapy, and that at the clinic they will prescribe people medications without following the Harry Benjamin standards of care!!!

At that point in time I was only 20 years old... not even drinking age!

I then saw a doctor at that same clinic and she spoke with me to ask if I understood the effects of HRT and gave me paperwork to sign, assuring me that if I initialled all of the spots on the form, I would be given testosterone. This was the first time I had seen her, and the next time I did so I was given an injection of testosterone - immediately after I had turned 21...

The story does go on, but just to let you know what they are doing in Washington DC, no there isn't any real difficulty securing hormones and they diagnosed me with a condition that has no known cure and the only treatment is to hormonally and surgically alter your body. Something I deeply regret, but even now it has been YEARS since this happened and I am not even old enough to rent a car! A 23 year old should not be picking up the pieces from trauma like this, encouraged by doctors who spent around 20 minutes talking to me and had NO real medical history on me, had only just met me... I think it's truly a tragedy.

The worst part is that when I spoke with the compliance department and asked what was being done to prevent this from happening in the future, they blew me off, saying 'We came up with our own guidelines that we follow which is that we interview patients and only treat them if we honestly believe that they are truly transgender and this is going to be best for them'. REALLY? A transgender mental health professional who does not discourage patients at all and only meets them once before sending them on their way to a prescribing doctor, and a prescribing doctor who only meets a patient once and sends them home with the consent forms... no, that is absolutely inappropriate - even if you do not consider my age or the fact that they knew nothing about my medical history, it was very negligent of them.

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on October 21, 2014, 03:30:12 PM
The worst part is that when I spoke with the compliance department and asked what was being done to prevent this from happening in the future, they blew me off, saying 'We came up with our own guidelines that we follow which is that we interview patients and only treat them if we honestly believe that they are truly transgender and this is going to be best for them'. REALLY? A transgender mental health professional who does not discourage patients at all and only meets them once before sending them on their way to a prescribing doctor, and a prescribing doctor who only meets a patient once and sends them home with the consent forms... no, that is absolutely inappropriate - even if you do not consider my age or the fact that they knew nothing about my medical history, it was very negligent of them.

And yet, this is exactly what those who promote Informed Consent want.. Can you imagine the same process applied to SRS?

For me its just been a rush of emotions because I have just recently come to the conclusion that I am transgender and that I want to be a woman more than anything but then I think about my life and what I have done in it and the jobs that I have had and how much harder it would be to live as a woman and how I wouldn't even know how to start. I mean if I was taking hormones I would have to have the confidence to be proud when I grew breasts and got more feminine and softer features, would I still be able to work in the area that I worked at without looking like a freak and being judged every single day. I am not sure that I will ever get to the point of ever having surgery because in all honesty I don't think i would ever be able to afford it.

So for now I just have decided to sit back and relax and think it out and I am like whats the hurry. I am forty years old and feel like I am younger because I am very active in summer and winter with activities such as hiking and downhill skiing which makes me feel young. My first step is to go see a gender therapist and go to a few meetings of other transgender folks and go from there and get a better understanding of what my options are and perhaps getting advice about jobs and what not. I mean the thing I think about the most about being a woman and a good job would be dressed up and working in a department store and working in the womans clothing because it would be easy to give advice to the clothes that I enjoy just as much as those real woman but I enjoy them a little bit more I imagine. I think we all have to take baby steps and not rush ourselves into doing anything.

Therapy is the first step and after a few months you'll know a ton more about yourself and what you want and need in all areas of your life. Highly recommend it!

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 21, 2014, 04:56:47 PM
And yet, this is exactly what those who promote Informed Consent want.. Can you imagine the same process applied to SRS?

Want to know something absolutely horrible and terrifying? In my search I HAD found doctors who could and did perform surgeries without requiring therapists' letters... even some of those who state otherwise on their websites will offer surgeries to you if you ask, and you can even schedule them without bringing up the forms, and neither will some of them, a 'dont ask dont tell' that can be profoundly catastrophic for those involved. Such doctors should lose their medical licenses.

I believe that no individual should be given any form of hormones without obtaining all of their medical records, speaking with any and all prior doctors available, and requiring therapy. This is the very bare minimum, and surgery should not be given before two full years of documented, uninterrupted therapy. If there really is such profound dysphoria and distress in the patient's life, they need it anyway to minimize psychological damage and teach coping mechanisms.

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on October 23, 2014, 06:08:47 PM
Want to know something absolutely horrible and terrifying? In my search I HAD found doctors who could and did perform surgeries without requiring therapists' letters... even some of those who state otherwise on their websites will offer surgeries to you if you ask, and you can even schedule them without bringing up the forms, and neither will some of them, a 'dont ask dont tell' that can be profoundly catastrophic for those involved. Such doctors should lose their medical licenses.

I believe that no individual should be given any form of hormones without obtaining all of their medical records, speaking with any and all prior doctors available, and requiring therapy. This is the very bare minimum, and surgery should not be given before two full years of documented, uninterrupted therapy. If there really is such profound dysphoria and distress in the patient's life, they need it anyway to minimize psychological damage and teach coping mechanisms.

Wow.. Way to make life even harder for trans people..

Going back through my medical records would reveal squat.. There's no records there that would be of any use.. Grommets x 3.. Tonsillectomy.. Bilateral hydrocele repair.. Frequent chest and ear infections.. Depression.. Hardly enlightening. Actually talking to them would reveal even less. So what's the point of this?

2 years of therapy? Are you a shill for the therapists? I did about 5 months before I started HRT, which is when I was ready - my therapist had been waiting for me. And 4 years later, I no longer see a therapist for gender issues - I no longer have any. All making it harder to receive hormones will do is increase the amount of self-medding and suicide.. 

CT-

this thread is completely highjacked now, and I hope the mods will separate it and make a new one. I'm replying here to you again.

It's massively problematic if someone tells you that he *perceives* you to be trans.
That's exactly the wrong interpretation of trans.
Trans is *not* something that you can see on the outside. It's about internal identity *despite* how you look on the outside.
It's deeply personal (even though it might express itself for some people in behaviour, dress etc).

When someone looks or behaves gender-noncomforming, that can mean lots of things:

1. the person is just a bit gender-noncomforming in behaviour (tomboy, sissy, etc)
2. the person has mixed or fluent or very vague gender ID
3. the person is gay/bi (butch, drag queen) but 100% cis
4. the person is a straight crossdresser/crossdreamer with a cis ID
5. the person is artistic, sporty etc ;-)
6. the person is transgender but has no interest in physical transition (some might transition socially in some way)
7. the person is transgender/transsexual but has valid reasons for not transitioning
8. the person is transgender/transsexual, and wants to transition partially/part-time etc
9. the person is transgender/transsexual, and wants to transition.
etc etc

I'm sure I've forgotten some variants.

Only the person in question can know (after some soul searching) which of the above variants refers to them (or if they belong to another variant that isn't listed). Nobody else can do that. In fact, in European standards of care for transgender treatment, it says exactly that- nobody can "diagnose" trans but yourself.

That's why it is so important to separate gender expression from gender identity. And even cross-gender identity doesn't mean that transitioning is the right way. There are a lot more people who are cross- gender identified than who are actually transitioning. A good therapist gives the patient an overview of all these options.

Since the individuals posting in this thread feel that it has been 'hijacked' and don't seem to appreciate input into my experience and the flaws with the current legality of rushing people through processes and into transition, I will stop posting in this thread. Have a nice day everybody =)

It's up to you tbh. If you draw your answers from people who aren't in the same situation as you but they tell you it will get worse, that's what you'll believe.
It's part of human nature. To believe what where told after we've heard it enough.

"Since the individuals posting in this thread feel that it has been 'hijacked' and don't seem to appreciate input into my experience and the flaws with the current legality of rushing people through processes and into transition, I will stop posting in this thread. Have a nice day everybody =)"

WTF???  I was the one asking for more input from you, CT.

I said it's "highjacked" because that's the term when a second topic takes over the initial question. The usual way to deal with this common online occurrence would be to split the thread into two, or copy parts over into a new thread. I don't know how the admins handle it on this forum?

Quote from: birdguhrl on October 08, 2014, 09:46:59 AMHas anyone made the decision not to transition and successfully lived a healthy life? Am I kidding myself that this is something that can be done?

birdguhrl Of Course not transitioning can be manageable . . . I suppose it depends on what life management skills you have to begin with? If in a happy, healthy relationship already why risk messing that up? Having struggled with GID for almost 40 years it was wanting and keeping a family (two kids now in High School) that has kept my dysphoria within bounds, self-imposed limits. You don't seem to have that problem . . .

. . . so it's your choice really. Are you the type of person that feels 'victimized' or cheated by lack of 'life choices' OR would you view 'transition', which can take on varied forms wholly dependent upon you, as a positive force in the future?

Having been divorced three years now marriage is a whole 'nuther issue not really relevant since we live in a increasingly feminist based society that tends to discourages, mitigate against 'staying together' anyway. Not a big fan of 'therapy in general' but the two gender specialists I've experienced were pretty amenable, supportive, not a 'problem' at all.

Perhaps for some non-transitioning can be workable, but I greatly disagree that it is a matter of choice. Some can handle the strain and stress, some can't. It would be foolish to assume otherwise.

Absolutely agree about the stress and strain, at least for me. I'm going slow because my marriage is important but just because you want one thing more than another doesn't mean you don't mourn the one you give up. I'm quite certain the balance will shift eventually, and I'll have to complete the transition to stay sane, but for now, I'm still trying to "boil the frog".

I am so on the fence about if I want to transition or not. Its like one day I really want to and then the next I am like hmmmm do I really. I am just at the very early stages of realizing who and what I am, I mean its obvious from my picture that I am still male but in my mind and in my soul I am female so I have a long way to go. I have yet to see a gender therapist and I am not sure when I will do that, hopefully sometime this winter. I think only you can figure out how far you are willing to go to be who you truly are and no one really can tell you what to do or not to do.

I mean when I think about transitioning I think about the changes that I will eventually feel, softer skin, getting hips and someday developing breasts which is the one thing that I think about the most. I mean if I have breasts and never have surgery to change the downstairs then I think I will be happy either way and feel like if I don't then I am not the woman that I want to be. I think if I do transition that I have to put lots of things into play like finding a TG friendly place to work where I will not be an outcast or put down or heckled or what not, just don't want to deal with all that drama. When I think about it that is the only real hurdle that I can see, it would be easy to tell family once I am confortable in dressing full time and the worse that happens is that they reject me and I still go on living my life.

Well sorry got into a vent about myself, I wish you the best and feel like you will figure it all out so that you can be happy with who you really are.

The stress and strain of non-transitioning versus the stress and strain of transitioning--
I have recently met a couple of older trans women who have detransitioned after 20 or 30 years of successfully passing, mostly because things got so much harder in older age, that they felt they had to detransition. None of them regretted transitioning or even getting surgeries, but they felt they couldn't take it anymore.
(a similar phenomenon exists for gay and lesbian elders who need to go into care in older age, and for safety reasons go back in the closets).

Dear Bunder, may I ask what things got harder?  I can imagine health issues?  Can you expand please, for us that are in the dilemma of transitioning or not transitioning.  Thanks,
Andrea.

Quote from: Bunter on October 27, 2014, 02:23:52 AM
. . . older trans women who have detransitioned after 20 or 30 years

lol taking a slow '20 to 30' years to transition in the first place is another way to go. People talk about 'stress & strains' life is difficult enough! Nowadays a 'masculine female' is commonplace, no big deal that we see everyday but presenting androgynous, nominally cis born male and getting 'ma'am'd by strangers anyway has rewards all it's own ( with drawbacks, pitfalls ZERO )!

Always Liked the Movie 'Orlando' 

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on October 20, 2014, 10:35:56 AM
It is nice to believe that transition will just make people happy, and there may be some people for whom it does, but from what I have seen, on a long enough timeline people want more, they want something different, there is an annoyance in their environment or situation and they feel that it needs to be solved for them to find happiness. It drives a lot of progress, but it does not create lasting happiness. It creates a feeling of success as each milestone is reached, but the drive to continue forward is only there because people are NOT satisfied with where they are at.

I believe this is a wise statement.

I grew up in a time where there was no internet and there was no information at all on transitioning. It wasn't at all like how it is today. Thinking back if someone would have asked me, "If you could look and be male in society, do you want that?" I would have most likely said yes. If they would have told me the only way to do that would be to inject myself with hormones for the rest of my life and undergo surgeries, that definitely would have given me pause. Yet I was diagnosed with GID at one point and my hesitation and not wanting to have to rely on medication my body didn't physically need to survive kept anyone from saying I was trans. Because by their logic, if I wasn't gung ho about that stuff, I wasn't trans. Which I came to believe wasn't actually true. And so, here I sit as a trans person who never transitioned.

Even with hormones and surgeries, I'd never have the body that would make me "happy" like the body I picture myself with in my mind. So if you're never going to be happy after putting yourself through all of that, why do it in the first place, I thought. You have to come to your own terms with yourself that there's always going to be something that you're going to want that you're not going to be able to have. That's life. If you don't find your own, unique way to deal with those feelings, you're not going to do so well. You're always going to be chasing something and you may obtain it, only to find that, well, now you want this ... or this ... or this.

Finding ways to be okay (not jumping for joy happy, but simply, okay) with what I've got was a difficult step because I'd gone for years hating myself and the so-called hand I was dealt in life. That's not productive. That doesn't make you feel good. It makes you make really crappy decisions. It makes you depressed or angry. It's a sure fire way to make a mess of your life in many ways.

So it's not just about transitioning or not transitioning, it's about finding some sort of inner peace and acceptance with your life in general and living in the moment.