Howdy, and sorry to intrude on y'alls sub-board. I just had a question that's been eating at me, so I thought I'd finally ask:

I'm transmasculine, I think, but sometimes I wonder if I'm "really just" a crossdresser -- if my relief at taking off my male accoutrements at the end of the day is less about the energy requirement of being trans, and more because I'm just interested in the performance aspect of it all. I love passing as a guy, but a part of me can't help but wonder if the thrill I get is all part of the deception, and if I'm only just tricking people into thinking I'm a boy. The idea of not being able to "go back" kind of scares me, and I think that's true of a lot of ppl who cross-dress.

But whatever! My question is less about me specifically, and more about the lack of guys/female-assigned people on the cross dresser board. Does anyone resonate with the feeling I'm trying to describe? Or does the crossdresser vs. trans question not really exist for people like me? After all, "dressing as a man" isn't exactly taboo for me; jeans and a t-shirt are pretty de rigueur for female bodied folks. But at the same time, I'm mighty curious as to why a trans guys don't seem to go through the same MAYBE IT'S CROSS-DRESSING phase as trans ladies do, and and where the line exists for some of y'all.

I'm not sure if I have an answer to that, but I can relate something that happened just this morning that seemed a bit odd.  An experience that never occurred before.

Like most weekends, I spent this one from Friday night to this morning attired as myself (Dani).  On Sunday mornings, I start easing myself back into the dreaded guy mode for work on Monday.  (remove polish, perfume, make-up etc)

This morning, after performing the routine I showered and got dressed for going out to breakfast.  I was startled when I walked past the full length mirror and had to do a double take.

The person I saw in the mirror looked like a girl trying to look like a man!

That cracks me up, because it is so true to my experiences. When I put on feminine clothes and check myself in the mirror, I sometimes freak out because I don't see a """""normal""""" girl, I see a boy in drag!

You bring up an interesting question, Cameron. Women who adorn some form of male clothing is considered clever or creative in some circles. Women have more freedom to dress in the opposite gender, whereas men are given grief for wearing a feminine article. Can you say double standard??

It's something I've been thinking a lot about actually as I've started to make first steps into trying to pass - boy clothes on a female body... the way I've always worn them anyway, pretty much just reads as "casual" or even "childish" (jeans, nerdy tees, hoodies etc - even when reading and identifying totally as "just a tomboy" there's nothing unusual there) not as crossdressing. It's frustrating trying to figure out what needs to change to be read more male without any medical transitioning - partly I guess down to the cut of jeans, binding and hair, but I guess there's a reason that a lot of tips/tricks you see around online suggest either suits, or slouchy skater style because those are typically more associated as male at first glance maybe? Interested to see what else comes up on this thread.

Quote from: Dani Davis on October 26, 2014, 02:51:54 PM
I'm not sure if I have an answer to that, but I can relate something that happened just this morning that seemed a bit odd.  An experience that never occurred before.

Like most weekends, I spent this one from Friday night to this morning attired as myself (Dani).  On Sunday mornings, I start easing myself back into the dreaded guy mode for work on Monday.  (remove polish, perfume, make-up etc)

This morning, after performing the routine I showered and got dressed for going out to breakfast.  I was startled when I walked past the full length mirror and had to do a double take.

The person I saw in the mirror looked like a girl trying to look like a man!

Yes! That's how I've been feeling lately. When I see my pictures now, I don't see a girl. I see a guy in girl clothing (usually if my mom is around), and it feels very weird.

I've always tried to be passable when I'm dressed as a woman, but when people know who I am is that still considered being passable? Or should I just go somewhere where I'm a complete stranger to be more passable? 

I think cross dressing as a "condition" doesn't exist for women because it's just not as taboo as for men. Men have to hide it from early age which might create something of an "obsession/guilt" dynamic that just can't develop for women to that degree.
I know that male clothes have a bit of a fetish function for me because there were situations in my childhood when certain items were taboo, and there was a struggle/secrecy/shame/fascination dynamic. Certain male clothes were also difficult to come by and forbidden for me, so they became more interesting. If they had been easily to get and nobody would have batted an eye if I tried them on, they wouldn't be that symbolic for me. I think for men this dynamic is much more intense.

CAM WE REALLY ARE ON A WAVELENGTH WHAT THE HECK. I came poking around here to ask this same question! I see you posted it about a month ago, but still.

For me, I worry that my preoccupation with fashion and clothes means I'm "really just" a crossdresser and not trans after all. I'm a HUGE fashion nerd, and clothes are a big deal to me because they're how I express myself. Also because I'm a fashion nerd, I strongly prefer to wear clothing that flatters my body type, size, and personality. Transitioning would give me the ability to wear the clothes I love and look good in them, but because I'm genderfluid, I'd miss looking good in my old dresses and such. I try to comfort myself by saying I'll still have the same bone structure.

I don't think my transition is all about the clothes or my presentation; I think my preoccupation with the clothes is due to the fact that I AM obsessed with fashion. (I'm an artiste, after all. *hipster glasses on*). But what if I'm wrong? What if it really is just the thrill of "deceiving" people? I don't think I'll know for sure until I've been doing this for awhile. Actually passing as male might help me figure this out, too, but I think I just need practice.

I've also learned through these forums that there are apparently females within lesbian culture who are a lot like me, and pass as male, although they don't identify as male. I didn't know about these people because I'm not a lesbian. :/ So...I'm not sure what that says about me. (I like everyone, but I tend to prefer men.)

So now I'm exploring the butch community, as well as crossdressers in general, to see if I like any of those identities better than FTM. Unfortunately, we seem pretty barren in the FAAB crossdressers department around here. I agree with gennee that it has something to do with double standards in society in general.

I'm glad to see this conversation here. I am a lesbian and while I do not necessarily identify as butch, I almost exclusively wear men's clothing. I shop in the men's section and it's horrifying. I imagine it must be the same for men shopping for women's clothing. But anytime you deviate from what's considered "normal" there are social repercussions. I remember being a kid and wanting to wear the clothes that my cousins (boys), brother and even my dad wore and being told "girls don't wear those shoes" or "girls have to wear dresses." Even mannerisms like how a girl should sit, or speak or that girls aren't supposed to whistle. For me, it felt very oppressive. It wasn't until about a year ago that I allowed myself to finally begin to express myself in the ways that I've always wanted. To wear the clothes that I was never allowed to wear, to buy men's cologne, wear bow ties and cuff links. I live in the south, so I get disapproving stares and odd unwelcomed questions about my attire all the time. I'm not trying to pass. I don't want to be a man, and while I enjoy being masculine (and even occasionally wearing a packer/prosthetic), I also enjoy being a woman. And for this reason, I don't think that a double standard exists. I think anytime you color outside of the lines, people get upset, and it doesn't matter the sex, gender, or gender expression of the artist holding the crayon.