I have now had over 100 hours of galvanic multiprobe electrolysis. The most painful bit (upper lip) is as yet untouched. I have so far tried a few different pain killers and my current method is Topicaine 5% applied 1hr before treatment. My sessions are 3hours long, so they do 3 separate areas with 2 more applications of Topicaine gel while I am there.  I am trying to avoid having to go to the dentist for injections for the upper lip.

I have tried some things off a compounding chemist here in Australia which were:
10% Lidocaine gel
3% Prilocaine 4% Lidocaine and 3% Tetracaine gel
5% lidocaine 5% tetracaine and 0.05% adrenaline gel

None of them were even close to Topicaine in their effect. I have drawn the conclusion that its the actual base and not the amount of active ingredient that makes the difference. The chemist said he could not add anything that would improve the penetration of skin without a prescription.

My doctor only knew of EMLA which the electrologist said was less effective on their customers than the topicaine and a lot of their EMLA users have switched. They also said that with multi probe, the EMLA caused a lot of problems with probes slipping out of follicles.

So does anyone know something I could order online from anywhere - or ask my doctor to write a script for that would likely help?

I'm interested in this topic for when I start electrolysis. Please keep this post updated with what ever you find.

You said "The chemist said he could not add anything that would improve the penetration of skin without a prescription." - its sounds like he knows what to add, so why not ask him to write it up, then get a doctor to write the prescription for it.

Perhaps you could get a prescription for Panadeine Forte or Digesic tables. They are really strong painkillers, and I've had them after surgery. I've no idea if they would interact with the anesthetic creams though, and I'd expect you'd want to use both. I've had stronger tablets, but I don't think you can get them outside of a hospital.

I have a fear of injections, and once did a tooth filing without anesthetic. It was incredibly painful. No way I'm doing that again, so the next time I had an anesthetic injection. I was was surprised that I could hardly feel the injection itself. The dentist started with a numbing cream.

Also, if anyone knows any good electrolysis places in Sydney I'd like to hear about it.

I can totally recommend Permanence (they have a website). I go to their place in Drummoyne. They also have an office in the city. Hoda and Richard who will work on you at Drummoyne are absolutley wonderful people - love them both dearly. The city office has the founder of the company - Noreen - who I have met on occasion. She is probably the most highly trained electrologist in Australia. I chose to use the Drummoyne place mainly due to the availability of parking in the back streets. Its not a good look walking down the street or taking public transport after 3 hours or more done on the face. Its not even a good look on the way in with topical anaesthetic smeared all over the face.

As for what they can add to the gels - I have found out that Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) and Urea are the main agents used to allow chemicals to penetrate the outer skin (stratum corneum). I will try and get the doctor to either contact the compounding chemist or to write me a referral to a pain management specialist to see if they can recommend/devise a proper compound for the purpose.

Your list is all topical, topical is helpful, but the electrolysis heat/pain goes well below their reach.
Systemic pain medicine is a good idea, I use prescription Tramadol, and a prescription compound mix of tetrocaine/lidocaine. I combine those with OTC ibuprofen and acetaminophen. All together, they help a great deal, there is still plenty of pain, but I've gotten through any electrolysis treatment with them.
from south pole and perineum to the upper lip.

Thanks bernadette, I think I'll give them a call. I'd also be interested to hear how you go with the anesthetic.

I have tried oral ones too, but for the most part they made me feel quite ill.
Tramadol 50mg - had leftover from an old back complaint
Ibuprofen - up to 800mg (=4pills)
Ibuprofen + codeine (4 pills 800mg Ibu + 51.2 codeine)
Paracetamol (=acetaminophen) - 1000 mg

The last one I tried was Stematil - which I was prescribed when I had a touch of vertigo 2 months ago.

The Tramadol makes me feel nauseous which does not go away until I have had a sleep. I tried 100mg of it once and I vomited. Stematil made me quite drowsy - which is OK while my partner is able to drive me to and from the appointments. I don't think I am safe to drive with it in the system. The drowsiness and light headedness did indeed seem to help.

The Ibuprofen+Codeine - well the ibuprofen bit anyway - has helped with the swelling, although it still takes 2 days for the swelling to go down completely.

I came across a site with some interesting advice on pain (among other things)

http://hairzapper.com/about-pain/

There's a formula for a compounded topical medication, and suggests that oral medication is risky due to increasing tolerance and dosage given the length of time electrolysis takes.

Thanks. I think the http://www.buy-otc.com/more.aspx?Z=91006&; is similar if not identical to that formula. Its certainly identical in active ingredients.

I just did 4 hours worth of electro last week including 1 hour on the upper lip. I used bio-evolve numbing cream which worked very well for the first hour. The second and subsequent hours were not so good as the application of the cream by the electrologist wasn't quite as good as what I managed. I guess I have a vested interest in getting it right. We agreed from here on for me to do the appliction of the cream myself every hour. I can say that the bioevolve was definitely the strongest of the topical anaesthetics I have tried so far and its effect when correctly applied and left on for 90 minutes was good enough for the upper lip to be managed.

Thanks for that. I'm pleasantly surprised its available so easily.

Unfortunately I've not started yet, a bit torn between wanting to and some personal issues.

I came across this site yesterday, and there's sub-forum about pain reduction. But is also got a huge amount of info and forums about removing hair in general.

http://www.hairtell.com/

http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php

Hi bernadette,

how much of the bioevolve do you need? There's lots of different ordering options, but I've no idea how much long any of them would last, and international shipping is expensive.

I found a couple of other websites selling it, but they are all the same company.

Not sure what else to suggest. When you use EMLA, you are putting Saran wrap over it to seal it in, right?
I "only" needed about 100 hours of electrolysis over a year. I think I was lucky as some people need much more. I was able to suck it up using only EMLA for about 3/4 of those sessions. What got me through the sessions is just reminding myself "one more hair, one more hair." In time you'll finish as well and you'll look back and think it went very fast.
No pain, no gain

For my first session, I took an aleve and drank quite a bit of water and was given a fat acting numbing cream. Also, I did something that a lot of people advise you not do before electro... caffeine...and lots of it.

I'm not totally sure I'm going to start soon, or if I do I'll go very far with it. Maybe. Its complicated.

I'm not a big believer in suffering though if I can avoid it. I research a lot, but I don't recall reading another other posts with these kinds medications in them, so its a good chance to learn something at the very least. I'll buy some anyway.

How much do I use?

Well - it depends on the area to be worked on. I think a 30g tube gets through 3-5 sessions. Mine are 3 hour sessions with a 5 minute break every hour. The shelf life is 6 months, so you can't buy loads in one go. I store mine in the fridge since out here in Sydney Australia summer temperatures in the shade reach 40C.

The recommended maximum dose it says is 0.5g but it will easily be exceeded if you do any more than the upper lip. I have not had any ill effects from it so far.

I tried emla cream but eventually I didn't think it was doing much. In the end I just sucked it up and overcame the pain by force of will. I used nothing at all for my upper lip and did blend (about 10 seconds per hair). Eventually I didn't feel anything from electrolysis. The only part that was a pin was genital electro since it left my crotch feeling like it was on fire.

I usually use tylenol + ibuprofin + EMLA cream + saran wrap.  But it still hurts like hell.

A few times I tried Tylenol 3's (prescription tylenol + codine) and the EMLA cream.  The tylenol 3's helped a lot.  It still hurt, but it was tolerable.  The trouble is, I had the Tylenol 3's left over from a previous issue.  When the last couple of pills are gone, I'll be SOL. 

Kim

Quote from: bernadette on February 28, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
Well - it depends on the area to be worked on. I think a 30g tube gets through 3-5 sessions. Mine are 3 hour sessions with a 5 minute break every hour. The shelf life is 6 months, so you can't buy loads in one go. I store mine in the fridge since out here in Sydney Australia summer temperatures in the shade reach 40C.

Thanks, just what I was after.

I'll look into it, but I expect the shelf life is specified at room temperature, and given that the speed of chemical reactions halves for every 10 degrees temperature drop, it should last a couple of years in the fridge.

What happened with the local compounding chemist? I assume it didn't work out, but I'm curious why.

Quote from: KimSails on February 28, 2015, 09:35:03 PM
I usually use tylenol + ibuprofin + EMLA cream + saran wrap.  But it still hurts like hell.

A few times I tried Tylenol 3's (prescription tylenol + codine) and the EMLA cream.  The tylenol 3's helped a lot.  It still hurt, but it was tolerable.  The trouble is, I had the Tylenol 3's left over from a previous issue.  When the last couple of pills are gone, I'll be SOL. 

Kim

You're doing everything I did, and yes, the pain was there. But just think, each session is one session closer to being done. It is so worth it. I finished four years ago....you'll be there soon enough

Quote from: KimSails on February 28, 2015, 09:35:03 PM
A few times I tried Tylenol 3's (prescription tylenol + codine) and the EMLA cream.  The tylenol 3's helped a lot.  It still hurt, but it was tolerable.  The trouble is, I had the Tylenol 3's left over from a previous issue.  When the last couple of pills are gone, I'll be SOL. 

That's good to know. I've had the a similar product in Australian called Panadine Forte. It's pretty effective.

Have you tried to get another prescription?

I've been looking into these topical anesthetics a bit and though I'd share what I found. Perhaps its of interest to others.

I found a couple of journal papers that make for interesting reading. There's quite a lot about the dangers of these anesthetics. I get the overall impression that some of these anesthetics are dangerous with certain medical conditions,  the difference between a safe level and dangerous is not very large, and that's if you're not careful its relatively easy to use too much. Whats safe would vary from person to person, but these products are supplied where everyone who uses them is safe.  It probably explains why electrolysis hurts so much as well. There's anesthetics that will fix that, but then you'd be in a hospital under the care of an anesthesiologist for the duration. That's well out of my price range.

Topical Anesthetics for Dermatologic Procedures: A Review
JOSEPH F. SOBANKO, MD, CHRISTOPHER J. MILLER, MD, AND TINA S. ALSTER,MD
Published in American Society for Dermatologic Surgery in "Dermatologic Surgery Journal"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22243434
http://www.skinlaser.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/2012AnestheticReviewDermSurg-AlsterSobanko.pdf

Review of Lidocaine/Tetracaine Cream as a Topical Anesthetic for Dermatologic Laser Procedures
Pain and Therapy Journal, April 6, 2013
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs40122-013-0010-2

These papers talk about some topical anesthetics banned by the FDA. Here's one of the letters

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2006/ucm076195.htm

I was interested in the one with DMSO as it sounds like would be very effective as part of an anesthetic, but it doesn't say much. I didn't find anywhere it was available as part of an anesthetic either. DMSO itself is not overly dangerous (or hard to buy), but mixing it with other things can be.

The one bernadette found looks to be on the upper end of things. I'd certainly use it, but I'll be re-reading these papers before I use any topical anesthetic. I'm overly cautious.