New Times
By Ashley Harrell
Published: October 11, 2007

That's right, Berke used to be a woman who used to be a man. He's an MTFTM, male to female to male. An ex-->-bleeped-<- who took a surgical U-turn. No, it never got to the big one. He's still got "Snoopy." But add up all of Berke's other surgeries, including breast implants, a brow lift, a nose job, cheek implants, and more and it equals about $80,000. Call it bankruptcy, as far as Berke is concerned. All for a big mistake.

That's what happens when a person who is not transsexual has SRS/FFS/BA etc for the wrong reasons.  I have said it before and I will say it again, I don't have any empathy for people like this individual.  I won't read the article because my mood will change to this =  , but I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to file a law suit against the surgeons who performed his surgeries. 

tink

Quote from: Tink on October 10, 2007, 08:35:02 PM
That's what happens when a person who is not transsexual has SRS/FFS/BA etc for the wrong reasons.  I have said it before and I will say it again, I don't have any empathy for people like this individual.  I won't read the article because my mood will change to this =  , but I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to file a law suit against the surgeons who performed his surgeries. 

tink

And that's what happens when a person doesn't read the article.   

He was moving through transition, seemed to be generally pretty happy, and got talked out of it by an evangelical church with their "God doesn't make mistakes" rhetoric.  No, he's not going to bring a lawsuit against the surgeons -- although he says he's thought of suing the church.

Should he have talked to an actual gender therapist?  Yes, that's what they're there for.  Would he have been able to have a happy life as Michelle had he finished transition?  Maybe.  That admittedly isn't a good enough answer (see the previous question) but nothing he did deserves your condemnation.

Quote from: ChildOfTheLight on October 10, 2007, 09:06:24 PM

Quote from: Tink on October 10, 2007, 08:35:02 PM
That's what happens when a person who is not transsexual has SRS/FFS/BA etc for the wrong reasons.  I have said it before and I will say it again, I don't have any empathy for people like this individual.  I won't read the article because my mood will change to this =  , but I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to file a law suit against the surgeons who performed his surgeries. 

tink

And that's what happens when a person doesn't read the article.   

He was moving through transition, seemed to be generally pretty happy, and got talked out of it by an evangelical church with their "God doesn't make mistakes" rhetoric.  No, he's not going to bring a lawsuit against the surgeons -- although he says he's thought of suing the church.

Should he have talked to an actual gender therapist?  Yes, that's what they're there for.  Would he have been able to have a happy life as Michelle had he finished transition?  Maybe.  That admittedly isn't a good enough answer (see the previous question) but nothing he did deserves your condemnation.

It's the same thing.  It is always SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAULT.    Either the church, God, the devil, the angels, the saints, the surgeons, the therapists when in reality it is each person's responsibility to know what they are or aren't, especially if we are talking about irreversible surgeries such as the ones I mentioned.

tink

"She [Michelle] had so many purses and things," Berke says, unsealing a blue plastic bin. He lifts out a knee-high black XOXO boot and studies it. "These were Michelle's favorite pair of shoes," he says, petting the leather.

IMHO, he wasn't a transsexual.

~Kate~

And again that is what happens when people try to circumvent the system, when people try to avoid therapists, when people do whatever they want without professional supervision, when people try to follow their own agenda on such delicate matters such as TS'im.  Well, basically it comes down to one thing; it sounds harsh but as the famous Spanish proverb says "you get what you look for"

tink

Quote from: Laura Elizabeth Jones on October 10, 2007, 09:44:33 PM

Quote from: Kate on October 10, 2007, 09:29:45 PM
"She [Michelle] had so many purses and things," Berke says, unsealing a blue plastic bin. He lifts out a knee-high black XOXO boot and studies it. "These were Michelle's favorite pair of shoes," he says, petting the leather.

IMHO, he wasn't a transsexual.

~Kate~

True, but having a lot of purses would be this little girl's dream come true. hehe 

LOL... I'd settle for a couple of pairs of shoes that actually FIT, were actually shaped in SOME resemblance of the shape of the human foot, and which STILL looked good when on.

It's a dream I have...

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on October 10, 2007, 09:56:30 PM

LOL... I'd settle for a couple of pairs of shoes that actually FIT, were actually shaped in SOME resemblance of the shape of the human foot, and which STILL looked good when on.

It's a dream I have...

~Kate~

ROLF - that is to funny.

Alice

QuoteRobin said only that her brother is too unstable to be part of their lives and that he's been unstable and destructive for as long as she remembers.

Maybe this quote made by his sister says it all.  His problems are way out of the spectrum of just gd, allowances have to be made for mental illness, changing genders back and forth are part of that, he will probably say he is the King of England next. 

Quote from: Tink on October 10, 2007, 08:35:02 PM
I won't read the article because my mood will change to this =   

tink

though, however...but you're not really mad about it, right Tink?

Quote from: Ell on October 10, 2007, 10:11:06 PM

Quote from: Tink on October 10, 2007, 08:35:02 PM
I won't read the article because my mood will change to this =   

tink

though, however...but you're not really mad about it, right Tink?

Not because of the article, but because of something else that you may read perhaps today or tommorrow...?

tink

Quote from: Tink on October 10, 2007, 09:15:20 PM
It's the same thing.  It is always SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAULT.    Either the church, God, the devil, the angels, the saints, the surgeons, the therapists when in reality it is each person's responsibility to know what they are or aren't, especially if we are talking about irreversible surgeries such as the ones I mentioned.

Well, yes and no. The thing is, you seem to be claiming that if one has any other mental problems that interfere with transition, it's their fault. I'm sorry, but that seems a bit too harsh to me.

In this case, the person did make a couple of mistakes. First of all, e didn't see a a therapist with real experience on gender issues, but rather a general therapist who eventually agreed to eir transition. Still, e seems to have been a borderline case: could have managed without transition, but might have been happier as a woman. The second mistake happened when e hit a rough spot after transition. Instead of talking to eir therapist e went to a weirdo church instead, swallowed their worldview and accepted their offer to pay for the removal of eir breast implants (with less than optimal results, as it turned out). This was the much more serious mistake -- but considering that e was clearly in an unstable state of mind at the time, I'm not sure how much blame you can dump on em. The church using the opportunity to brainwash em is another matter.

Yes, e made a couple of mistakes. Still, it's just these mistakes the SoC are supposed to prevent. Just barely following them didn't prevent the first one; not following them made the second one possible.

  Nfr

I have just read the whole article.

At 1st I was worried as he got access to HRT so quickly. But then I thought I have been a lot more careful and have indeed seen a gender theripst. I will also do one year FT if need be to follow the SOC. I need to ensure I am doing everything correctly if my transistion is to work.


After reading about his second transistion I was very sad. The interference of the church was just horrendace and then to disown him shows why I never have trusted religous instutions (sorry if I offened).

If I transistion I will do everything to ensure it is sucessful.

Alice

Quote from: Seshatneferw on October 11, 2007, 04:36:22 AM
Still, e seems to have been a borderline case: could have managed without transition, but might have been happier as a woman.

I don't think he'll EVER be happy. He's reckless, acting on every whim and fantasy that occurs to him OR gets fed to him. He has no sense of personal responsibility or accountability. First he's a macho man, than a slutty woman, than a macho man AND religious zealout... tomorrow it'll be UFO cult, end of the world survivalist... whatever whim or fantasy occurs to him.

And DARN it, IMHO, envying clothing and makeup and looking pretty doesn't necessarily mean someone is a woman and needs to transition, though I realize many people use it as an "indicator" of being TS. I think that's a scary, dangerous assumption which leads to cases like this one. It seems people like this transition in order to justify wearing the clothes and playing with girly accessories, instead of the clothing being a *consequence* of living as, and being, a woman.

~Kate~

One of the common questions I receive about transition happens to be if I wear makeup everyday and that one comes from the women. Of course the answer is no. I do not always have the time or the desire to throw some on although most days I can be found with a thin coat of foundation and some lip gloss.

There are plenty of guys in the goth scene who wear more makeup than I probably ever will. 

Quote from: ChildOfTheLight on October 10, 2007, 09:06:24 PM
He was moving through transition, seemed to be generally pretty happy, and got talked out of it by an evangelical church with their "God doesn't make mistakes" rhetoric.  No, he's not going to bring a lawsuit against the surgeons -- although he says he's thought of suing the church.

It's called "Repairative Therapy."  Yes, he should sue the church.  Therapists who use RT can lose their licenses.  There should be consequences for anyone who practices it.

Posted on: October 11, 2007, 11:36:38 AM

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Quote from: LostInTime on October 11, 2007, 10:36:02 AM
One of the common questions I receive about transition happens to be if I wear makeup everyday and that one comes from the women. Of course the answer is no. I do not always have the time or the desire to throw some on although most days I can be found with a thin coat of foundation and some lip gloss.

I never wear makeup.

I would love to know how these "God makes no mistakes" churches explain birth defects in general.  Idiots.

Stormy

Quote from: Stormy on October 11, 2007, 01:17:45 PM
I would love to know how these "God makes no mistakes" churches explain birth defects in general.  Idiots.

Stormy

They're a test to make your faith grow stronger.  You need to learn to live with them.

A cross-dresser that went the wrong path most likely.

Quote from: Seshatneferw on October 11, 2007, 04:36:22 AM

Quote from: Tink on October 10, 2007, 09:15:20 PM
It's the same thing.  It is always SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAULT.    Either the church, God, the devil, the angels, the saints, the surgeons, the therapists when in reality it is each person's responsibility to know what they are or aren't, especially if we are talking about irreversible surgeries such as the ones I mentioned.

Well, yes and no. The thing is, you seem to be claiming that if one has any other mental problems that interfere with transition, it's their fault. I'm sorry, but that seems a bit too harsh to me.

No, I am not claiming anything.  I never said anything about mental illness or problems.  My reference to angels, the devil, demons, etc was ironic in nature.  Why?  because all of the people who regret transition seem to blame their ineptitude/lack of responsibility to somebody else when the truth is that they are careless.

Besides if anyone thinks that they are women because they enjoy makeup, silky lingerie, soft pantyhose or because they love "feeling" like a woman, they have another thing coming...

tink