I always try to engage in discussions about religion, god, and the nature of reality as peacefully and non-biased as possible, because I didn't used to. I was very preachy in my Christian years, and when I found my home in paganism and occultism I was very hostile towards Christianity. Not the people, just the religion, but attacking a religion is often taken personally, anyway.

Today, I see the value in all sorts of belief systems, and I see where they all can connect on common ground. It's easy to be angry with a religion where people have done terrible things in its name, or when you really don't understand the metaphors being used in scriptures; and the big one is associating tragedy with the God of Abraham even when you don't believe he exists. People base their opinions far too much on mythos rather than taking responsibility for their own actions.

So, whether one believes in God or not isn't nearly as important as how we choose to treat each other, and how we choose to live our lives.

Spirituality is a personal matter, and should also be a very private matter. Those beliefs will be in vain if people go into the world with judgment and self-righteousness. Smiting wasn't the lesson of Jesus, or Buddha, or Mohammed no matter what anyone proclaims to justify their behavior. It's also not the lesson in any esoteric path. We are to shine a light so that others may see and come to find their own light.

Spirituality, under any name, is your own revelation in your own time. It is not a military protocol for occupation and conversion. You just cannot make someone enlightened. They are either ready for it and accept it, or they are not. From my own experience, God is not a needy child who has tantrums when nobody gives him/it attention. God just is. We either discover it or we don't. Either way, no one is in danger of some eternal punishment. Heaven and Hell are things we allow within ourselves. Hell just happens to be less likely when you live a spiritual life, because you have that guidance with you like an astronaut has mission control. Without it, that astronaut is lost in the cold, dark space, navigating on a whim, and depending on hope.

Hope is not the way of the enlightened. Hope is for the lost, the helpless, and for those who have given their power away. Enlightenment and spirituality is about knowing, because what is there to hope for when you know that everything is as it should be? When you think "like God" your perspective changes dramatically, and you understand that good and evil have a symbiotic relationship. One can transmute to its opposite in either direction. For an excellent expression of this concept watch The Dark Crystal and pay attention to its meaning, especially at the end.

"When religion is experienced as a wall that blocks us from others by thinking our way is superior than someone else's, we are restricted from the all-encompassing 'true religion' that serves as the primordial foundation of all religions (universal law) and all benefits that we would enjoy if we were living in harmony with said law. A religion is a failed religion that doesn't teach the unity and interconnectedness of everything and has supremely failed when they have withheld certain things that prevent people from discovering who they are and living their life to the fullest all in the name of 'power' and 'control'."

— Bret Trismegistus

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i don't want to believe in god but i have been taught to believe in god since my childhood, so it is kinda difficult to remove that "belief" from within. it is imprinted in my mind, lol

Quote from: evadenzin on November 10, 2014, 11:46:14 AM
i don't want to believe in god but i have been taught to believe in god since my childhood, so it is kinda difficult to remove that "belief" from within. it is imprinted in my mind, lol

We're raised to believe in only one limited idea of God, and punished for questioning it. That's what ruins it for people. It makes us unreceptive to spirituality, and I'd like to think that's by design. Organised religion is too often restrictive and oppressive, but spirituality is liberating. You can't have a world of unthinking, unquestioning, subservient automatons when we're all awake and can see through the dark.

Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 09, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
I know there is a positive, healing, pure, and wonderful energy out there but I do not believe there is an intellectual and/or intelligent being, deity, or 'God' in control. There is FAR too much anger, rage, violence, murder, hatred, etc in the world and its only getting worse. How could ANY 'God' allow or desire this? It's ridiculous to think there's a grand plan here that benefits humanity.

Not trying to go against susans policies but, We have turned our backs on God so why should he do anything for us I mean look how we act, this world isn't getting any better so no don't expect God to move for you or anyone we can't even follow simple commamdments if I was God I wouldn't do anything for humanity either unless you deserved it tbh.

Quote from: Jess42 on November 10, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
But that is exaclty what it means Brandon. Our life experiences dictate what we believe. There is no difference between non belivers and believers. Bith want to have and deserve a comfortable happy life. Lived to their fullest potential. If there is a heaven and a hell, who has control over who goes where? I have seen some non believers that would go to a heaven and I have seen some blelievers that would go to hell. I have seen some non believers that have live more "righteous" lives than some believers.

We can't judge. I won't even try to. I have no authority or Devine power to Judge anyone who is right or wrong. Me personally, I am in no way deserving of a Heaven. If I burn in hell then fine. But I will stand with my brothers and sisters. If I burn, according to some, then so be it. I did and am doing what I think is right. Right? That is the first part of Righteousness?

Sorry Susan. I hope I didn't break any TOS.

I completely understand that but who puts you through thoes experiences and most of the time its only to make you stronger if anything by me giving you trials and tribulations it shows that I care about you more instead of letting you be weak in this world, its only getting worse and worse tbh and it will never get better I'd rather be strong thamd weak and I have grown strong from my situation and this whole process.

Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Not trying to go against susans policies but, We have turned our backs on God so why should he do anything for us I mean look how we act, this world isn't getting any better so no don't expect God to move for you or anyone we can't ven follow simple commamdments if I was God I wouldn't do anything for humanity either unless you deserved it tbh.

When you wait around for a deity to come in and save the day then you completely miss the point. God isn't separate from us. We are all each divine expressions; shards of the whole. We create and destroy our own world. We are responsible for the outcome. There is no saviour besides ourselves.

Imagine looking into a mirror and you take your brush to its surface as if to touch your hair. You keep doing that over and over and wonder why your hair isn't changing. That's basically the way we go about our lives. We keep combing the mirror; projecting everything away from us; giving up responsibility to someone else and expecting to see results. You don't change the reflection, you change what's being reflected. Faith without action is useless.

Quote from: Illuminess on November 10, 2014, 03:42:28 PM
When you wait around for a deity to come in and save the day then you completely miss the point. God isn't separate from us. We are all each divine expressions; shards of the whole. We create and destroy our own world. We are responsible for the outcome. There is no saviour besides ourselves.

Imagine looking into a mirror and you take your brush to its surface as if to touch your hair. You keep doing that over and over and wonder why your hair isn't changing. That's basically the way we go about our lives. We keep combing the mirror; projecting everything away from us; giving up responsibility to someone else and expecting to see results. You don't change the reflection, you change what's being reflected. Faith without action is useless.

I am sorry but I disagree with almost everything you said, God indeed created this world while it is true we have definately destroyed it. There is a savior and that is my lord and savior Jesus Christ. Sorry I love God and you will never change my mind if it wasn't for his grace and mercy I wouldn't be here I am just stating the facts. But you don't have to agree with me. And if we are really our own saviors than why is everybody dying all the time, why has the love of man waxed cold we can't even love eatchother instead we judge eacthother oh I know why its because God is the only one who can step in and help we can't do everything ourselves, we need some type of guidance.

 
Just a reminder to everyone to keep things calm and civil. That is all I ask! 

The beauty of individuality is the choice to believe however you choose. It's when someone tries to insist you believe a certain way — condemning all others — that suspicion arises, and your individuality becomes nil. Nobody has to be in complete agreement, because each experience is our own. One is not better than the other. Different perspectives make for some amazing diversity. The challenge is learning to coexist within it, without judgment.

Religion has been the cause of MORE violence, murder, mayhem, and mass confusion and manipulation than anything else known to mankind. Religion is slowly falling to the wayside because it's simply NOT working.

Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 10, 2014, 08:14:32 PM
Religion has been the cause of MORE violence, murder, mayhem, and mass confusion and manipulation than anything else known to mankind. Religion is slowly falling to the wayside because it's simply NOT working.

The basis of those religions is mystic in origin, but men have stripped away that essence and turned them all into tools of war: physical, mental and spiritual. So, what we need is to reconnect what was removed, not throw it all in the bin. What is written in holy books has one perfect meaning, but we all end up finding our own that best fit our worldview or agenda.

All religions have value if you know how to look. It's just not easy for people to shake their biases and become receptive to the mystical. Just research Gnostic Christianity and you'll see how very different it is to what Christianity has become. If Jesus existed he was most definitely a mystic, not a vicar or an evangelist. He said the Kingdom of Heaven was within. It doesn't look like many are heeding that advice. Everyone is too busy puffing up their chests and pointing fingers. That's not spiritual behaviour.

People do NOT need organized, or disorganized, religion to have a relationship with 'God'. Religion, in MANY cases, brainwashes people. Spirituality is a direct connection to the power that IS and does very well without religion. Yes, men screw up religion and at this point it's screwed up almost beyond the point of no return. Religion has been around a LONG time yet the world is NOT in ANY better shape. Religion is just as much a disease to mankind as politics is.

Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 10, 2014, 08:41:33 PM
People do NOT need organized, or disorganized, religion to have a relationship with 'God'. Religion, in MANY cases, brainwashes people. Spirituality is a direct connection to the power that IS and does very well without religion. Yes, men screw up religion and at this point it's screwed up almost beyond the point of no return. Religion has been around a LONG time yet the world is NOT in ANY better shape. Religion is just as much a disease to mankind as politics is.

It just depends on what you consider to be a religion. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the major ones that are always trying to one-up each other, preaching fear and defending immoral behaviour in the name of God.

My personal path is Thelema, and whether or not it's a religion is debatable. Some people take it in that direction, and some don't. The Thelemic order of The A.'.A.'. has the motto, "The Method of Science, The Aim of Religion". Their use of the word has nothing to do with dogmatic barbarism. Religion is simply the structure that surrounds a belief, and the foundation that keeps it unwavering.

The problem that has made that word into a vulgarity is the self-righteousness in claiming authority or superiority over others. Thelema forbids anyone to interfere with another's personal path. It's a "religion" that embraces individual liberty, and the act of restriction (to oneself or to others) is the greatest sin. The pillars that uphold this philosophy are Will and Love. Follow your unique path, and do so under the law of Love. It's a shame this ideology isn't practiced in most other religions.

Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 10, 2014, 08:14:32 PM
Religion has been the cause of MORE violence, murder, mayhem, and mass confusion and manipulation than anything else known to mankind. Religion is slowly falling to the wayside because it's simply NOT working.

No there is just no love in this world anymore. Just look around ya, I agree that they could teach better and not condemn everyone though.

Quote from: Illuminess on November 10, 2014, 08:04:34 PM
The beauty of individuality is the choice to believe however you choose. It's when someone tries to insist you believe a certain way — condemning all others — that suspicion arises, and your individuality becomes nil. Nobody has to be in complete agreement, because each experience is our own. One is not better than the other. Different perspectives make for some amazing diversity. The challenge is learning to coexist within it, without judgment.

I understand that 100% and agree its just people can be really rude about there beliefs and I try not to..

Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2014, 09:25:28 PM
I understand that 100% and agree its just people can be really rude about there beliefs and I try not to..

That's good. I know my words can often come across as blunt, but I never intend to offend. I like to look at religion/spirituality like Mexican food: it's all the same core ingredients, just arranged and prepared differently. However you ingest it, it's all going to the same inner place and filling you with goodness.

Brandon, there's plenty of love in the world but we aren't talking about love, we are talking about religion and they don't necessarily go hand in hand. I run into many good, decent, and loving people but religion has a way of twisting and distorting people's views, beliefs, perceptions, and feelings. I'm not anti religion but can clearly see it just doesn't seem to be making a positive contribution to the planets population.

No I don't believe in god and no disrespect to people who do. I believe in karma I treat people how I want to be treated


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