A serious question, for those couples who have remained happy and married, are you Mrs and Mrs (or Mr and Mr for the transmen)??  This is something that WILL happen to Marcy and I, sooner or later.  We are as happy as can be, still married (there was never a question for us, luckily) and show our affection openly, as we always have.  Yes, we ocasionally get looks, but for us, things have never been better.  We are closer than ever, in all ways.

I wonder though, what would happen, for instance, if one of us were in the hospital, and the other came to visit, or make decisions for the other, etc.  Why should I be allowed in?  Well, because I'm Mrs ____ , her wife? 
How would that fly?  In my case, maybe it would, because my middle name is Beverly, and so, I did not change my name.  It is the same name that appears on our marriage license.  The only change I made was the gender marker on my driver's license which is now the cherished 'F'.

Seriously, folks, what do you think?  Is there reason for concern? 

Hi Beverly, I don't live in the States so I don't know the legal ramifications of that kind of scenario, I see as you being next of kin, so you should have the same rights as family and permitted in hospital room etc.
Very interesting situation though, could bring about some comical moments I should say.  It reminds of the movie 'You've got Mail', where Tom Hanks is introducing his Aunt (who is about 6) and his brother (about 4) to Meg Ryan, while she was trying to guess the family dynamics as well.  I love it when he says "Wwwweee're an American family."  I always laugh at that bit. 
I just hope you and Marcy are always treated with respect and like any other married couple.


buttercup 

Quote from: buttercup on October 11, 2007, 06:28:35 PM
............I just hope you and Marcy are always treated with respect and like any other married couple.


buttercup 

Generally, we are always treated with respect....at my job, at the market, at church, at the library, etc.....  We get ocassional looks, especially from younger people....kids, really.  Then there is the ocassional psst! One construction worker type, gets the attention of another, so he can point out the lesbian couple going by arm in arm.  I make sure we're safe, then just smile at them warmly.

Bev

Bev, Brenda would be a good person to ask about this. 

One thing you might look at is actually exchanging powers of attorney but check with a really good lawyer in your state about that.  In Georgia for instance, there are actually two different forms of power of attorney that could be used.  One has limited scope and the other gives a more all encompassing authority including medical decisions, etc. 

Beverly

Quote from: Beverly on October 11, 2007, 05:44:25 PM
The only change I made was the gender marker on my driver's license which is now the cherished 'F'.

I'm wondering if that might create problems, if you tried to show ID to prove you're legally her "husband"..." you'd just be proving you're female and thus can't be married?

As for titles, we just use "friends." We sometimes use "aunt" too for each of us, depending on who we're dealing with. But we're not intimate, in public or otherwise, so it's a bit easier

~Kate~

I never actually embraced the "Mrs" title when we got married.  (Oddly I am Mrs. Smith, which is just... amusing to me hehe)  It just felt like a title and made me feel old.

However - I use the terms "partner" and "spouse" I don't often use "wife".  I do let folks know (doctors, the pharmacy, the electric company whoever) that we are married.

Quote
I wonder though, what would happen, for instance, if one of us were in the hospital, and the other came to visit, or make decisions for the other, etc.  Why should I be allowed in?  Well, because I'm Mrs ____ , her wife? 

Well instead of Mrs. Jones, you could say "I'm Beverly Jones, Jane Jones' spouse"  ..  Unless you like the title Mrs. then by all means go for it, "I'm Mrs. Jones, Jane Jones' wife"    You might want to carry a copy of your walking letter and possibly marriage certificate in case you run into problems.

Quote
We are as happy as can be, still married (there was never a question for us, luckily) and show our affection openly, as we always have.  Yes, we ocasionally get looks, but for us, things have never been better.  We are closer than ever, in all ways.

I'm always really happy to hear about other "success stories"   I'm really happy for you both   You learn to deal with the looks, we get them on occasion to, as we are also open and affectionate in public.

We use partner in our relationship. We do have our marriage license and you should keep it close by along with your name change from the courts. Just in case you are confronted with the problem. I haven't had to deal with it at all. I have been in the hospital and Pat was let in. We consider ourselves married and call ourselves partners. She still uses Mrs. and I use Ms. Other than that we have no problems. Oh, I don't call her my wife and she doesn't use the term wife or husband either.
Sheila

Quote from: Alison on October 11, 2007, 08:28:40 PM

Well instead of Mrs. Jones, you could say "I'm Beverly Jones, Jane Jones' spouse"  ..  Unless you like the title Mrs. then by all means go for it.....You might want to carry a copy of your walking letter and possibly marriage certificate in case you run into problems.

I'm always really happy to hear about other "success stories"   I'm really happy for you both   You learn to deal with the looks, we get them on occasion to, as we are also open and affectionate in public.

Actually, that's what Marcy and I decided on.  She introduces me to others as her spouse, Beverly, and I introduce her as my spouse Marcy.  I'm not exactly crazy about the Mrs, Ms, Miss thing either.  The question really was about presenting as same gender marriage partners, a mostly illegal arrangement   

On the phone, with companys that take my money and have power over me, I use my usual female voice, and my given name, Michael Beverly ...'Jones'.  They don't seem to care that I sound female, all they want is my money or something.

I think maybe I might carry my Vehicle Administration letter that grants my gender change from M to F, and that should be sufficient.  We're pretty used to the ocassional looks, and ignore them.  They seem to be far out numbered by looks of approval we get from various people, usually women.


Also, Alison, I am so happy for you and your spouse.   It's wonderful to hear other success stories out there!  So so many other stories without really happy endings.



Bev,
Spouse

Spouse and I have discussed this scenario extensively.  We basically decided that if push came to shove we would access our marriage certificate, which is in my old name, along with my name change court order.  The combination proves that we are legally married even though it outs me.

As far as the Ms, Mrs, etc, titles are concerned.  We've never really considered the point.  I lean towards Ms. for myself.  Spouse does refer to me as her husband, when speaking of me in the past.  Heh, she outed me (with no negative effect, thank goodness) at a luncheon we attended at my old university last weekend by using the word while describing our life on campus to the two couples we were sitting with.  She didn't realize it until later and was very apologetic.  She's started to use "spouse" now while referring to me in the present.

I think maybe we'll talk about that today.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Quote from: Sheila on October 11, 2007, 09:02:36 PM
Oh, I don't call her my wife and she doesn't use the term wife or husband either.

Funny thing is, *I* have almost slipped a few times, calling myself "her husb..." and quickly correcting myself to "friend" or whatever. It's just so instinctual still, so habitual.

When we have to out me to someone, she introduces me with, "This is Kate. She used to be my husband."

(although in private, she doesn't think of me, Kate, as ever having been her "husband." She in fact doesn't think she ever HAD a husband)

The confusion goes beyond marriage too, as my mother-in-law can't figure out what to call me either to people. People she talks to assume I'm part of the family SOMEhow, but we can't say I'm her daughter's spouse anymore. I usually end up being Aunt Kate who lives with Aunt [wife].

~Kate~

Quote from: Emelye on October 13, 2007, 10:48:45 AM
Spouse does refer to me as her husband, when speaking of me in the past........ She's started to use "spouse" now while referring to me in the present.

I think maybe we'll talk about that today.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Emelye, if you were talking about her, and referred to her as 'spouse', it would still be correct.  I think spouse is gender-neutral.

Bev

Quote from: Beverly on October 13, 2007, 11:25:12 AM
Emelye, if you were talking about her, and referred to her as 'spouse', it would still be correct.  I think spouse is gender-neutral.

Bev

I use "spouse" now almost like a proper name for her, lol.  We talked about it and she said she still prefers Mrs. W.  I said, "Well then should I use Mrs?" and after a beat she said yes!

It went well, so unlike other conversations in the past that made her upset.

This morning she told me, "I'm falling in love with you in a different way!"  omg, scrape me off the ceiling!!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Quote from: Emelye on October 13, 2007, 12:42:06 PM


This morning she told me, "I'm falling in love with you in a different way!"  omg, scrape me off the ceiling!!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Yea!  Another success story!


I'm very happy for you both,
Bev

I've never been married and I imagine it must be a bit of a problem for those who are / were married....

And then there are those who are not quite so successful. Which reminds me, I'm supposed to be writing a letter to my former spouse's lawyer.



Karen Lyn

Quote from: Beverly on October 11, 2007, 05:44:25 PM
A serious question, for those couples who have remained happy and married, are you Mrs and Mrs (or Mr and Mr for the transmen)??  This is something that WILL happen to Marcy and I, sooner or later.  We are as happy as can be, still married (there was never a question for us, luckily) and show our affection openly, as we always have.  Yes, we ocasionally get looks, but for us, things have never been better.  We are closer than ever, in all ways.

I wonder though, what would happen, for instance, if one of us were in the hospital, and the other came to visit, or make decisions for the other, etc.  Why should I be allowed in?  Well, because I'm Mrs ____ , her wife? 
How would that fly?  In my case, maybe it would, because my middle name is Beverly, and so, I did not change my name.  It is the same name that appears on our marriage license.  The only change I made was the gender marker on my driver's license which is now the cherished 'F'.

Seriously, folks, what do you think?  Is there reason for concern? 

.......Am I in a minority for never getting married or ever wanting to be married as a 'male'......the thought always made me feel sick.....

I don't know how people manage to go through that whole marriage process knowing that they feel they want to be female but haven't got the drive to go through at the time with it until years later......

I imagine this problem does cause confusion but again it was a decision made by the couple at the begining.......but I also understand that many transsexuals are only attracted to women from the outset even though they eventually want to look like them.  It's nice if married couples do manage to stay together and shows the love and compassion of the original female partner...

Quote from: Emelye on October 13, 2007, 10:48:45 AM
Spouse and I have discussed this scenario extensively.  We basically decided that if push came to shove we would access our marriage certificate, which is in my old name, along with my name change court order.  The combination proves that we are legally married even though it outs me.

That should be all that is required.

I'm not going to express any opinion of my own on this topic since I am currently married to someone who I would actually prefer not to be able to make medical decisions for me.

Quote from: Berliegh on November 01, 2007, 12:43:00 PM
I don't know how people manage to go through that whole marriage process knowing that they feel they want to be female but haven't got the drive to go through at the time with it until years later......

In my case being bisexual removed a lot of those issues.

Hi, Berliegh,

QuoteI don't know how people manage to go through that whole marriage process knowing that they feel they want to be female but haven't got the drive to go through at the time with it until years later......

I can tell you how I got through that whole marriage process.

1.  Societal expectations based on external gender presentation;
2.  I am 56 years old.  When I fell asleep crying and praying to wake-up as a girl it was 1964 or thereabouts.  Try telling anyone, parents, doctors, anyone, that you were really a girl, in 1964.
3.  Violence was inflicted on those like me if they were caught being themselves.
4  I was ignorant of advances in the understanding and treatment of transsexuality. I was not born IS or with ambiguous genitals.  Had I been I would have ended up with my parents choosing the male gender for me.  When I got my first computer in 1995 I began to search for everything I could find about transsexuality.
5.  Acceptance on the job would have been zero.  I would have been fired.  I worked with a woman who was in her transition and RLE in 1984/1985 and she took a verbal and emotional beating.  She had the guts that I didn't.

Those who are significantly younger than I am might have been able to tell the world to push off with no repercussions.  I might have been wrong but I didn't feel that I could have done so when I came home from the military in 1974.  Gay men were still the object of beatings by "real men."  A TS woman didn't have a chance.

Thank you for allowing me my ramblings.  You were born as you are and you have always been true to yourself because you might not need to change your outer gender to make it match with the inner.  I was blessed in a different way.  I had to make the outside congruent with the inside.

Thanks again.  I shall now leave Speaker's Corner to the next rabble rouser.

Wing Walker
Blessed to Have Seen Life in Both Genders in the Same Lifetime

Quote from: Wing Walker on November 04, 2007, 01:23:23 AM
Hi, Berliegh,

I can tell you how I got through that whole marriage process.

1.  Societal expectations based on external gender presentation;
2.  I am 56 years old.  When I fell asleep crying and praying to wake-up as a girl it was 1964 or thereabouts.  Try telling anyone, parents, doctors, anyone, that you were really a girl, in 1964.
3.  Violence was inflicted on those like me if they were caught being themselves.
4  I was ignorant of advances in the understanding and treatment of transsexuality. I was not born IS or with ambiguous genitals.  Had I been I would have ended up with my parents choosing the male gender for me.  When I got my first computer in 1995 I began to search for everything I could find about transsexuality.
5.  Acceptance on the job would have been zero.  I would have been fired.  I worked with a woman who was in her transition and RLE in 1984/1985 and she took a verbal and emotional beating.  She had the guts that I didn't.

Those who are significantly younger than I am might have been able to tell the world to push off with no repercussions.  I might have been wrong but I didn't feel that I could have done so when I came home from the military in 1974.  Gay men were still the object of beatings by "real men."  A TS woman didn't have a chance.

Thank you for allowing me my ramblings.  You were born as you are and you have always been true to yourself because you might not need to change your outer gender to make it match with the inner.  I was blessed in a different way.  I had to make the outside congruent with the inside.

Thanks again.  I shall now leave Speaker's Corner to the next rabble rouser.

Wing Walker
Blessed to Have Seen Life in Both Genders in the Same Lifetime

I'm around 10 tears younger than you are but I still experienced beatings when I was at school in the 1970's...

I don't know what you mean by 'me not needing to change my outer gender?

Quote from: Berliegh on November 01, 2007, 12:43:00 PM
.......Am I in a minority for never getting married or ever wanting to be married as a 'male'......the thought always made me feel sick.....

I didn't "want to be married as a male." The thoughts of being married as a male broke my heart. However, the thoughts of enjoying life with my best girlfriend was very appealing, it being the closest thing to actually living a female's life I could have. Plus, I'd never so much as kissed anyone before my wife. I had no idea of the sexual problems in store for us in the years to follow.

QuoteI don't know how people manage to go through that whole marriage process knowing that they feel they want to be female but haven't got the drive...

As some of us keep pointing out, it WASN'T A LACK OF DRIVE. It was a lack of knowledge that transition was even possible. I wasn't as feminine-looking as you - no amount of trying to force the issue would have allowed me to be accepted as a girl. So I did the best I could within my limitations.

~Kate~