Is this normal? I'm barely 20 days post op, is it normal to be having wet dreams that result in not one but two orgasms?? First one didnt wake me up, but the second one was so intense I woke up and was completely awake from it. Wasn't a 'sort of' orgasm but a full out double orgasm from my dream.

Also, is it normal to be lubricating this early? Like I get -really- wet when flirting with my girlfriend via skype and after my dream I was soaked. Was worried I actually may have pee'd but it wasn't right and dried up rather quickly just like normal girls lubrication does. Is this normal to happen so fast or should I just be very thankful and not question it?

I figured I'd self lubricate at least some what since I would get sort of "wet" down there since post orchi, just never expected it to happen so fast or so much. But it's literally enough that if I get myself turned on I don't need to lube the #2 dilator or even bother using the #1 first and can go straight to the #2 and it slides right in no problems for dilation time.

Everyone is different but yes with my experience and known knowledge possible for anything.

Quote from: mrs izzy on November 12, 2014, 08:16:18 AM
Everyone is different but yes with my experience and known knowledge possible for anything.

ok! It had me worried, I've always had an insanely high libedo, post orchi it got even higher and now 20 days post srs I'm turned on -way- too easily it's a bit scary and I'm completely off meds >.>

Biggest fear is I'll wind up trying to... play, a bit too soon. But according to the nurses I'm healing really well and really fast. I did sadly lose an inch in depth which is apparently from the swelling going down but still, I'm happy with 6 tho 7 would have been more entertaining.

Quote from: Samantha007 on November 12, 2014, 08:35:03 AM
You may have orgasmed as in ejaculated, but getting wet/ self-lubricating for post-op women is out of the question. We simply don't have the glands responsible for this. I had a long discussion, regarding this, with my endo who's been treating transwomen for over 10 years!  It is sad but it's the truth hun.

hugs,
Samantha

Your endo is very wrong,  I would get wet prior to my final surgery after my orchi slightly, and know a few post ops who get wet just fine and have tested this even more and with some imagination I can get myself wet enough to dilate without using lube. The Prostate, Cowpers gland http://www.innerbody.com/image_repmov/repo16-new2.html and a few other things can all help.

http://openmindedhealth.com/2014/02/transgender-qa-vaginoplasty/

My question wasn't if post op women can lubricate, merely if it's normal for it to happen so fast. It's not the -exact- same thing as a cis, but it functions the exact same way

I don't know about typical, but it's not abnormal. I had my first orgasmic dream at 3 weeks post-op, and was definitely lubricating then (I was still too scared of breaking the equipment to get turned on while awake, so I don't know what would have happened there). You're just one of the lucky ones who has functionality come online early, I think!

And I have no question but that I can self-lubricate, yes. It's mostly coming from the urethra rather than seeping through the vaginal walls as in a cis vagina, but it's real and adequate at least for initial penetration. Not to mention that my clitoral hooding was formed from leftover urethral tissue, and remains mucosal and very lightly lubricating (that's enough to keep the area comfortably moist, not enough to stain my panties).

Can't say normal or not. Even on full T, I never had wet dreams, and an orgasm was always a matter of will and not something that happened to me.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 12, 2014, 10:47:53 AM
I don't know about typical, but it's not abnormal. I had my first orgasmic dream at 3 weeks post-op, and was definitely lubricating then (I was still too scared of breaking the equipment to get turned on while awake, so I don't know what would have happened there). You're just one of the lucky ones who has functionality come online early, I think!

And I have no question but that I can self-lubricate, yes. It's mostly coming from the urethra rather than seeping through the vaginal walls as in a cis vagina, but it's real and adequate at least for initial penetration. Not to mention that my clitoral hooding was formed from leftover urethral tissue, and remains mucosal and very lightly lubricating (that's enough to keep the area comfortably moist, not enough to stain my panties).

Exact area it originates for me as well. So that's a relief, was secretly worried it could be a bad thing even though it didn't feel bad at all

One can read about stuff all the time, but once it starts happening it's a very different experience!!! I'm hoping I don't have to wear panty liners, but I know as of right now they are an absolute must but I'm assuming that's just from the current healing phase I'm in. I figure I'll speak more with Dr Chet when I see him next week!

I have a random question.

The last time I had a wet dream I was 13 so I am curious does srs somehow bring out a sexual desire from your body finally being complete or did you all just have these pre-srs. As i said random but I am curious especially as HRT wipes out libido.

Samantha007, there are many cis girls who wear a mini liner almost all time because they have a small amount of leakage quit often and don't want it on their panties or even possibly show on tight pants they maybe wearing.  I hope you enjoy having a vagina, it does take some maintenance.

Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on November 12, 2014, 12:46:10 PM
I have a random question.

The last time I had a wet dream I was 13 so I am curious does srs somehow bring out a sexual desire from your body finally being complete or did you all just have these pre-srs. As i said random but I am curious especially as HRT wipes out libido.

For me I've always had a very high libedo. Wet dreams have been very common for me since actually touching myself pre-op was such a turn off. I learned many ways to get myself off while leaving the prior donor material alone. Wet dreams have always been a very common event in my life, I just didn't expect it to happen so soon post op.

Quote from: Samantha007 on November 12, 2014, 12:39:35 PM
It's the bartholin's glands, located slightly below and to the left and right of the introitus (vaginal opening) that secrete mucus to augment vaginal-wall secretions. We DO NOT have these glands, sweetheart. 

Ok, we'll just assume that myself and every other post op girl who's lubricating are hallucinating then.

I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing for, or why, but you seem to be determined to make me believe that self lubricating isn't possible, yet since I know several post ops who do, there are several post ops on here who do, and now myself I am experiencing it, I'm going to say thanks for your feedback, but please refrain from further cause I'm getting a bit irritated with you parroting some random doctor that thinks he's got answers to something he definitely doesn't.

As I said, it's not the same type of lubrication, but it works the same way. Am I going to continue to lubricate? I don't know, I am unsure if that's what this is at such an early date which is what brought my question to here to try to hopefully find one of these girls who had a similar experience to shed some light on it for me. Which was done just a few posts up, telling me everythings fine

Samantha Marie : Nope, and in fact that makes sense, anatomically! We have, as you noted, the analogous structures to Bartholin's and Skene's glands (that's the Cowper's gland and prostate, respectively*), which produce similar fluids at similar times - but unlike in cis women, the Cowper's gland is hooked up to exit via the urethra. The good news is that as you also discovered, the lubrication will drip down and enter the vagina quite easily, since the urethra should be only the tiniest distance away from the vagina. (And even in cis women, the Skene's glands do in fact use the urethra too.)

Glad to be reassuring.


*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homologues_of_the_human_reproductive_system Personally, I don't have any trouble believing that since the fluids in males and females are *similar* to begin with, estrogen can influence a trans woman's secretions juuust enough to make it more or less identical to a cis woman's. I've heard enough stories of trans women whose genitals (pre-op) develop the lubricating tendencies and even odor of a cis woman, for example.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on November 12, 2014, 01:10:40 PM
Samantha Marie : Nope, and in fact that makes sense, anatomically! We have, as you noted, the analogous structures to Bartholin's and Skene's glands (that's the Cowper's gland and prostate, respectively), which produce similar fluids at similar times - but unlike in cis women, they're hooked up to exit via the urethra. The good news is that as you also discovered, the lubrication will drip down and enter the vagina quite easily, since the urethra should be only the tiniest distance away from the vagina.

Glad to be reassuring.

+1 <3 <3  Yup, seems this is what is going on! I spent a bit earlier today(actually prior to my walk, then after you left my room doing further testing), to discover exactly where it was coming from and what it was(smell+taste+lubrication ability). Smells and tastes normal(yea, I'm weird but I was curious what things tasted like, wanted to make sure it wouldn't be gross to my girlfriend), and is lubricating for a few minutes before drying up off of my fingers.

*Edit*How funny, you were editing in about smell and such for your last paragraph as I was posting this, yes, smells and tastes well within normal range, very light in fact and not even remotely over-powering so +1 to good genetics

20 days post op and you dilate without using any lubricant?

Samantha007 : I seem to have hallucinated puddles on my sheets *and* that Wikipedia article, then.   Biology does also like to repurpose things (that's what homologous structures are), so there's a lot of overlap between "male" and "female" organs etc. (The only thing cis women have that a trans woman cannot have any homologous structure for is a uterus; even the ovaries are analagous to testicles.)

Of course, I don't generally use Wikipedia as a serious reference, but that's the most straightforward chart I could find in a quick search. I'm confident that any medical or biology textbook would back that up. Or, if you prefer, my endocrinologist has been treating trans patients for almost 25 years and says she has had many post-op trans women report self-lubrication, and has no trouble believing it - I know this because *she* started the conversation, to ask me if I was among them.

But honestly, if you've decided we're making this up, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

​
Samantha007 : Actually, yes, I do, although I admit I haven't spelled it out very well yet, so I take the blame for the lack of clarity. First of all, many cis men produce *slight* lubrication on sexual arousal; it's "pre-ejaculate," the little drips that show up long before orgasm. This fluid is produced by the Cowper's glands, which is analogous to the Bartholin's glands. The location is, as I noted, different, and the delivery mechanism is via the urethra, but that's an inarguable biological fact : even cis men's Cowper's glands make fluid during arousal. It seems fairly straightforward that trans women, with the same set of internal glandular equipment, should at the very least be able to produce the *same* fluids at the same times via the same mechanism as cis men, right? And since the amount produced varies by man, it stands to reason that it might also vary by trans woman (some trans women report producing more on HRT than they did before, but that's admittedly anecdotal). The main difference in a trans woman's anatomy is that the urethra, leaking fluid and all, has been repositioned so that it will [incidentally] drip into the vagina directly.

That established, the only point of contention is how much that fluid can come to resemble a cis woman's instead. To me, it makes sense that since both mucus and other liquids produced by the body can vary somewhat based on something as simple as how much water someone has had to drink, estrogen might well change the consistency to something thinner and lighter and more "lubricating" than a cis man's. Therefore, as I said, I don't have any problem believing HRT might do that - but I can't argue if you disagree with that part.

Also, though I prefer not to think of it this way, if any liquid is produced at orgasm it is also analogous to semen; everything that produces semen *except* for the small component that is sperm is intact in a trans woman, including the urethra (albeit shortened).

Personally, I don't find that either liquid resembles semen in me anymore, but I don't have any way to prove it and I accept if you don't believe it.

Quote from: Samantha007 on November 12, 2014, 05:47:44 PM
The hard biological data I have supplied was not sourced from wikipedia. My endo, who is a senior consultant endo for the National Health Service here in the UK discussed it with me. Not only he is a qualifed specialist consultant in this matter, but he's been treating trans-people for the last 12 years. I have also done my own research. It is IMPOSSIBLE  for us, transwomen, to self lubricate. We simply DO NOT have the glands hun. Call it what you want, but we can only produce moisture down below. Self-lubrication resulting from arousal IS the property of ciswomen. Do you have any scientific evidence to back up your claim or is it just wishful thinking, sweetheart? 

I see a couple of things possibly going on here.

I have a feeling you're quoting science as if its infallible, but the scientific method is about the opposite. When reality contradicts scientific theory it's the theory that gets changed, and science progresses. Like scientists, doctors get it wrong, probably more so. There's huge differences in the way doctors treat transgender people - its not possible for them to all be correct. I've seen enough clear mistakes not place too much trust in what they say.

I've also heard enough people saying they get lubrication to find it hard to doubt. Possible, but hard to imagine. I could imagine many potential issues with scientific facts you're quoting. Perhaps it was very old data, when surgery was less advanced? Was it a really small sample, and not accurate? Was it from British patients only, and reflects British surgery results rather than the international responses here? Perhaps their definition of lubrication is different, so that it only means lubrication by one means and not what everyone is actually experiencing? No doubt there's heaps more.

I'm not sure there's much point in arguing over it, unless perhaps you could get the research paper the doctor is quoting.

Quote from: Samantha007 on November 12, 2014, 08:35:03 AM
You may have orgasmed as in ejaculated, but getting wet/ self-lubricating for post-op women is out of the question. We simply don't have the glands responsible for this. I had a long discussion, regarding this, with my endo who's been treating transwomen for over 10 years!  It is sad but it's the truth hun.

hugs,
Samantha

Would love to know what's happening to me when I get turned on then.....

Quote from: doll89 on November 12, 2014, 03:17:07 PM
20 days post op and you dilate without using any lubricant?

Missed this in the prior... discussion.

Yes, hence part of the reason for making this post. I got surprising results from day 1 of my transition, and after doing research the last few days plus applying experience, while it's abnormal to happen this fast, as the nurses from Chet's office put it, I'm very lucky!

Keep in mind tho if I'm not turned on. while things are moist down there, the dilator won't go in. I've actually got to get turned on for around 5 mins at least before it slides in.

Quote from: Samantha007 on November 13, 2014, 06:15:24 AM

Jenna Marie,

The precum you are talking about in cismen that would provide lubrication for us post-op's would go down the urethra. That couldn't possibly provide lubrication for the inverted scrotal and penile skin. What would happen there naturally, however, is the moisture from the mucosa (a few months post-op) from the constant rubbing of the internal skin, not from arousal. Ciswomen do have the glands to produce this. We don't. I know this can be upsetting for many of us here, but it's the truth.

hugs,

Samantha

You're arguing a point that many of us know for a fact, because we have actual proof, that you're wrong. You're not experiencing it so you're going with what your doctor said, what you're experiencing and what you seem to want to believe. Let's not forget that science once believed that "bleeding" out patience was a good cure method, or that we couldn't go faster than 50 mph else we'd die. I could go on an endless list of "facts" from professionals that have been disproved as time goes on that it's absolutely ridiculous how anyone could hold such faith in the words of one person who can't actually prove anything. There are lot's of "facts" that are theory and eventually disproved.

If you were here I could convince you that I self lube in around ten seconds since that's how fast it starts to be noticeable once I am turned on, and around the 5 minute mark when I use my dilator without applying any lube and it slides in fine and dry, and comes out wet and like it's on rails, your doctor and you would both easily be disproved

Samantha007 : I did in fact mention that it was delivered through the urethra rather than internally, but the thing is, it's impossible to get something *inside* the vaginal vault without first going past the urethra. Try putting some lube on the outside of the introitus and see if you can dilate without getting lube inside. So for all intents and purposes, the delivery mechanism is different, as it's via the penetration itself carrying lubrication inside, but the end result is the same. I'm not arguing about the glands etc. anymore - as I said, we can agree to disagree on that - but that lubrication can indeed quite easily end up inside the vagina where it's supposed to be.

Unless your urethra is a greater distance away from the vagina, and you can't picture how this happens? It's supposed to be literally millimeters away, which means liquid dripping out of it will basically smear right across the introitus.  The really fascinating thing is that it's highly controversial whether the inverted skin becomes mucosal, a thing which you have stated as fact yet a lot of people here and elsewhere will argue about it!  I am actually wondering at this point whether it's true, as another poster suggested, that this is partly down to differing surgical results and/or medical theory in different countries.

(My wife, who was born with a vagina, says things leaking down there can get past the anus, to her great irritation. Everything's in the same general location, and it's not like moisture has to travel for miles. And again, please note that *some* cis female lubrication is produced by glands deeper in the pelvis and delivered by urethra as well.)