I am deeply troubled by recent events in the forums. A banned member started a competing website, and a number of other members left for the new site. Some had been here far longer than I. I need to share my feelings about what happened.

The ban itself is not a problem. Users get banned all the time – it's a hazard of running a worldwide support site. The terms of membership need to be enforced. Nor is the existence of a competing website. Susan's Place will continue to provide a safe haven for folks who need support, information, and advice. Variety is good. Maybe it will benefit people to have a choice between several sites. And I certainly don't begrudge anyone the prerogative to move on when remaining is no longer right.

The timing makes me uncomfortable. The new site was created nearly a full day BEFORE the post that drew the ban. Learning that information sent an uncomfortable chill through my body. It's not that I think the member in question deliberately made an offensive post to draw a ban, so the outrage would cause other members to leave. I have too much respect for that person to believe that. But the whole thing has a bad smell.

What bothers me more is the loss to our community. I have developed a respect and affection for the people here, people who are overcoming obstacles and solving the puzzle of how best to live their lives. It's impossible not to get emotionally intertwined with people's stories. When a member abruptly departs the site for good, and you realize that the person you communicated with daily, you will probably never hear from again, it's like experiencing a death. In this case a number of deaths at the same time. I'm in mourning for the way my life was touched by their presence and will no longer be touched in the future.

I was invited to join the new site and I decided not to become an active member. I am still here at Susan's Place chiefly to help out people in the way I was helped when I was first starting out, confused and uneducated. I will best be able to continue those efforts by remaining. But I am left with a sense of loss I must sooth.

Suzie, there is no competition, and you know more than I about a banning.  I have not read the post nor do I wish to.  Susan's is a support site.  The other is a discussion forum.  Some have left because they did not feel welcome.  I am mostly elsewhere because I'm too emotionally vested in the people involved to behave sensibly.  You are a voice I admire, I'm glad you are here but It is not an either/or condition, nor is there animosity towards anyone.  I wish you fair winds.

Julie

Well what can ya do? I don't know about the specific banning incident you speak of (though I'm really curious whats going on now and what this new site is), but whatever the case may be people disagree and come and go as they please. It's just something we've got to deal with.

It's not the first time it's happened, Suzi, at least not since I joined.

Although, I must say the timing of all this does seem a little conspicuous..

Stuff happens. Just try and let it go.

Stuff happens. Just try and let it go.

I too have been a bit disturbed by what has been happening within our community lately. Despite it tho I have no plans to leave or join another site. The people here and this community gave me my life back. And like Suzi I can be of best help to others and pay forward the gifts given me by staying here. Besides, I'm not one who's known to quit just because things get a little rough. We're a community who supports one another and I'm confident we'll get through this as long as we respect each other and support each other. I myself am proud to be here. however I too am sad to see some of my friends go, and I wish them well.

Ally

On other types of sites I've seen things get wild and wooly in the fall when people start college for the first year and get the freedom to access things on the internet they didn't have before. Some of them see the perceived anonymity as a license to behave as badly as they choose, others, using black and white thinking, feel that if things aren't perfect (to their perceptions) then they're absolutely awful. These people get comfortable or move on. I haven't been here a full year, but I've been wondering if that's been happening here. Not that these people aren't genuine. I've seen a few posers come and go and they haven't been hard to spot. Just that some come here and don't seem to realize that this is PEER support, people give what they can, and not everyone sees or experiences trans the same way.

Personally, some of the threads here hurt me deeply. I'm a very compassionate person so I always want to help and I've also been going through a very tough time right now, so I'm more sensitive. I often have to back out of threads that trigger me. Some days are worse than others. All any of us can do is give the support that we feel capable of doing, accept or refuse the help offered in a kind way, and be gracious when we don't get what we're looking for. Life is too short and our lives are too hard to make them worse by overreacting.

You may agree with me, you may not. All I can tell you is that this works for me, and it may work for you.

Quote from: Dee Walker on November 19, 2014, 07:36:51 AM
On other types of sites I've seen things get wild and wooly in the fall when people start college for the first year and get the freedom to access things on the internet they didn't have before. Some of them see the perceived anonymity as a license to behave as badly as they choose, others, using black and white thinking, feel that if things aren't perfect (to their perceptions) then they're absolutely awful. These people get comfortable or move on. I haven't been here a full year, but I've been wondering if that's been happening here. Not that these people aren't genuine. I've seen a few posers come and go and they haven't been hard to spot. Just that some come here and don't seem to realize that this is PEER support, people give what they can, and not everyone sees or experiences trans the same way.

Personally, some of the threads here hurt me deeply. I'm a very compassionate person so I always want to help and I've also been going through a very tough time right now, so I'm more sensitive. I often have to back out of threads that trigger me. Some days are worse than others. All any of us can do is give the support that we feel capable of doing, accept or refuse the help offered in a kind way, and be gracious when we don't get what we're looking for. Life is too short and our lives are too hard to make them worse by overreacting.

You may agree with me, you may not. All I can tell you is that this works for me, and it may work for you.

To me that point is everything. I think a lot of newcomers think we are a discussion site, and don't fully understand the support mission we embrace. Of course we can discuss things, as long as it's done in a supportive manner. Supportive of all makes and models of people.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 19, 2014, 08:53:43 AM
To me that point is everything. I think a lot of newcomers think we are a discussion site, and don't fully understand the support mission we embrace. Of course we can discuss things, as long as it's done in a supportive manner. Supportive of all makes and models of people.

I agree completely.  But the 100% genuine and non-facetious question that comes to mind is:  what do we mean by "support?"

I have no idea whether the mods/admins here would agree with Suzi's description of another site as "competing."  But Suzi's description of it makes me wonder . . . does support involve trying to make sure everyone stays on one site and keeping them from going to others?

Many know that I run a support organization offline.  At the last support group meeting we had a newcomer who drove about two hours to get to our support group meeting.  There is another support group right in the town this person lives in.  So yesterday I sent the person an email telling them they are most welcome in ours, but I wanted to make sure they knew about the one right there in their hometown because they might find it more convenient. 

I sent the email because I'm unaware that my organization's support group--or any of the other things we do--has any competitors.  Competing with other support groups, professionals, advocates, community builders, and others in our service area is not part of our mission.  I don't believe it is possible to have too many trans* support resources.  And if I'm supporting the other person, then I think my goal should be about helping them find the thing that works best for their needs, even if it means they no longer join in the stuff I'm doing.  I think I should even be helping other support groups and other things if I can because it means more resources for the people I'm trying to support. 

Of course maybe I'm doing support wrong.  If I am, let me know. 

I see "competing" sites the same way.  I am a member of all of them (except TransTruth) because I want to support there being lots and lots of support resources for trans* people.  I hope that sharing some of the stuff I do as an activist, like some of the conversations on health insurance here, among others, is a helpful contribution that provides support to the sites by making them a teeny bit more useful resource for the users.  And selfishly, I'd like to find some support for myself.  If I find a site that provides the kind of support I need, I will probably post about my own stuff more.  But these days I tend to confine myself on all sites to activism stuff for a variety of reasons.

Question:  Is that because of support?  What is support?

With very much respect to all.. I have no horse in the race here or at any other site, I don't know the past here, and have absolutely no ill feelings towards anyone here. I've never been a member of any other gender oriented message board of any kind except Susans, and now the site you are referring to..
I don't feel that the other site which you are talking about has anything to do with, nor any desire to compete with Susans site or any other.?
Read the name of the other site, "Non Binary".. Look at which forum here is now empty, and which members have left..?
There is no competing message board, no attempt to cause any loss or harm here, just a simple place made for the the non binary family here and others who feel part of that family to be able and stay together, instead of disapearing.. The other site was made with love and as a gift for the non binary family that was here at Susans, who would have left whether it was there or not..

I just want to say that our site is not in competition with anyone, we display a link to Susan's Place prominently.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 19, 2014, 12:11:48 PM
I just want to say that our site is not in competition with anyone, we display a link to Susan's Place prominently.

I hope I didn't imply that it was.  If so, I apologize.  The implication was not intended. 

I think we're in agreement.  I see support organizations as perhaps overlapping each other but not competing. I like that you were more concerned with that member than your attendance.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Mark3 on November 19, 2014, 12:03:50 PM
With very much respect to all.. I have no horse in the race here or at any other site, I don't know the past here, and have absolutely no ill feelings towards anyone here. I've never been a member of any other gender oriented message board of any kind except Susans, and now the site you are referring to..
I don't feel that the other site which you are talking about has anything to do with, nor any desire to compete with Susans site or any other.?
Read the name of the other site, "Non Binary".. Look at which forum here is now empty, and which members have left..?
There is no competing message board, no attempt to cause any loss or harm here, just a simple place made for the the non binary family here and others who feel part of that family to be able and stay together, instead of disapearing.. The other site was made with love and as a gift for the non binary family that was here at Susans, who would have left whether it was there or not..

Over the years I've been here, I've seen many "All the good people have left" threads. I feel compelled to put this out there every time I see the sentiment. There is a constant turnover here. Very few people are here for the long term. To call the Non Binary section empty because some of the members have left  does a disservice to the ones who haven't. I miss the people who leave, I wish them well. But my overriding concern is the members still here and coming in through the door every day.

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes, didn't mean much by the choice of the word "competing". It just came to mind. Didn't meant to say that gender sites should compete with each other. I know they don't. Can we forget I used that word?

I more wanted to share my unhappiness at the departure of a number of members who I will deeply miss, and at the event that coincided with their departure.

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 18, 2014, 08:48:06 PM
I am deeply troubled by recent events in the forums. A banned member started a competing website, and a number of other members left for the new site. Some had been here far longer than I. I need to share my feelings about what happened.

The ban itself is not a problem. Users get banned all the time – it's a hazard of running a worldwide support site. The terms of membership need to be enforced. Nor is the existence of a competing website. Susan's Place will continue to provide a safe haven for folks who need support, information, and advice. Variety is good. Maybe it will benefit people to have a choice between several sites. And I certainly don't begrudge anyone the prerogative to move on when remaining is no longer right.

The timing makes me uncomfortable. The new site was created nearly a full day BEFORE the post that drew the ban. Learning that information sent an uncomfortable chill through my body. It's not that I think the member in question deliberately made an offensive post to draw a ban, so the outrage would cause other members to leave. I have too much respect for that person to believe that. But the whole thing has a bad smell.

What bothers me more is the loss to our community. I have developed a respect and affection for the people here, people who are overcoming obstacles and solving the puzzle of how best to live their lives. It's impossible not to get emotionally intertwined with people's stories. When a member abruptly departs the site for good, and you realize that the person you communicated with daily, you will probably never hear from again, it's like experiencing a death. In this case a number of deaths at the same time. I'm in mourning for the way my life was touched by their presence and will no longer be touched in the future.

I was invited to join the new site and I decided not to become an active member. I am still here at Susan's Place chiefly to help out people in the way I was helped when I was first starting out, confused and uneducated. I will best be able to continue those efforts by remaining. But I am left with a sense of loss I must sooth.

Big hug! I know the feeling. I've been banned, it tears the whole community out of your hands. Thousands of deaths, if you will. Your friends that left voluntarily can come back whenever they want. The banned ones, well I know that Susan is a second, third, and fourth chance type of person.

I'm sorry about the derail, but like the others, I thought you wanted to discuss the presence of other sites, it occupied most of your post. Again, I'm sorry.

Hugs, Devlyn

I tend to prefer Starbucks over Einstein Bagels  because the Wifi is faster

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 19, 2014, 01:29:53 PM
Yes, didn't mean much by the choice of the word "competing". It just came to mind. Didn't meant to say that gender sites should compete with each other. I know they don't. Can we forget I used that word?

I more wanted to share my unhappiness at the departure of a number of members who I will deeply miss, and at the event that coincided with their departure.

Many hugs and hope to see you this evening.    I did not mean to pick on you.