So, we all know that some people can pass as long as they don't speak but what about "idle tics"? Like the little things you do without thinking like: crossing you legs when you sit down in a chair, sweeping your hair behind your ear, humming, tapping your nails on a table, drumming/tapping your hand against your thigh, or things like that. I get that these things aren't inherently gendered but I've been told some of these "ruin the illusion" of my masculinity when I do them.

So are there certain tics you associate with one gender? What are they? What makes a certain tic gendered? Other opinions?

Hey Tobias it is kind of funny but your short list contains many items I used to censor myself about.  Additionally I felt self conscious about how I simply walked or stood and would remind myself to take the wide stance like a man.  It is such a relief to give up on all of that and just be free of the self censoring behavior.

It is my belief that we are seeing a more androgynous and less strictly gendered culture emerging.  Young people particularly seem less hung up on the labels and perhaps don't relish new rules to learn about?

its something i'd never noticed before when actually doing them, but definately noticeable when i sit and think back now that i read your post.  though a few things that seem to have become mmmmm, noticeable when people make comments about them.  since ive started growing my hair out im constantly brushing it out of my face and back towards my ears, and a coworker has made numerous comments and jokes about it now being very feminine and comparing me to a couple women he knows.  as a musician i constantly and listening to whatever song is on, and i start tapping my legs as i am sitting in the break room or walking around just out of habit. 

id be very interested in knowing what is particularly feminine or masculine "tics" as well.  im sure if you figure out certain ones that you can do, and just do them to the point they become habit and become idle you could change them.

Quote from: Tessa James on November 19, 2014, 11:59:00 AM
It is my belief that we are seeing a more androgynous and less strictly gendered culture emerging.  Young people particularly seem less hung up on the labels and perhaps don't relish new rules to learn about?

would be so wonderful if only there were no specified gender designation for different actions and activities.

Quote from: wolfduality on November 19, 2014, 11:47:16 AM
So, we all know that some people can pass as long as they don't speak but what about "idle tics"? Like the little things you do without thinking like: crossing you legs when you sit down in a chair, sweeping your hair behind your ear, humming, tapping your nails on a table, drumming/tapping your hand against your thigh, or things like that. I get that these things aren't inherently gendered but I've been told some of these "ruin the illusion" of my masculinity when I do them.

So are there certain tics you associate with one gender? What are they? What makes a certain tic gendered? Other opinions?

I definitely have gendered mannerisms. I sit like a man, but I don't stand like one. I've always got a hip cocked. It's even more obvious when I walk: too much sway in the butt, not enough in the shoulders.

My hands and face give me away too. I don't just mean in the features, either. I've got a real dynamic face, expressive hands, lots of feeling in my body language. It's something I like about myself, actually, and it certainly carried me a ways in the performing arts, but it's often read as a distinctly feminine emoting.

Sometimes I'm hyper-conscious of it, and it's like a buzzer goes off in my head every time I hit that girl-tic threshold. I touch my mouth, I fix my hair, I cross my feet at the ankle -- BZZT, BZZT, BZZT. Whoopsies. I need body training or something, I swear.

I find that I do many of these "female mannerisms" automatically the more I "feel" feminine..and not just when dressed.  Crossing legs, hand to hair..things like that I do when I am presenting as female or male. Some are "learned" behavior and some just seem to come naturally

Quote from: captains on November 19, 2014, 01:28:01 PM
I definitely have gendered mannerisms. I sit like a man, but I don't stand like one. I've always got a hip cocked. It's even more obvious when I walk: too much sway in the butt, not enough in the shoulders.

My hands and face give me away too. I don't just mean in the features, either. I've got a real dynamic face, expressive hands, lots of feeling in my body language. It's something I like about myself, actually, and it certainly carried me a ways in the performing arts, but it's often read as a distinctly feminine emoting.

Sometimes I'm hyper-conscious of it, and it's like a buzzer goes off in my head every time I hit that girl-tic threshold. I touch my mouth, I fix my hair, I cross my feet at the ankle -- BZZT, BZZT, BZZT. Whoopsies. I need body training or something, I swear.

I've had this problem a lot. I was never a girly-girl but I still do the typical girl tics. Hips swaying when I walk, popped hip when I'm standing, pulling back my hair (when it's actually longer than usual), crossing my legs, ect. I really don't know why I do it and I hate it but sometimes I'm just too tired to be more conscious of it. This is only further compounded by mixed messages on what counts as feminine. I've been told slacking my shoulders is "for girls" while others say it conveys apathy which isn't really gendered.

I just have no one to really give me feedback and staring at guys to get ideas isn't exactly welcomed.

Quote from: captains on November 19, 2014, 01:28:01 PM
My hands and face give me away too. I don't just mean in the features, either. I've got a real dynamic face, expressive hands, lots of feeling in my body language. It's something I like about myself, actually, and it certainly carried me a ways in the performing arts, but it's often read as a distinctly feminine emoting.

I have always thought of expressiveness as a trait that meant you'd be great at drama or using sign language!

Quote from: wolfduality on November 19, 2014, 11:47:16 AM
So, we all know that some people can pass as long as they don't speak but what about "idle tics"? Like the little things you do without thinking like: crossing you legs when you sit down in a chair, sweeping your hair behind your ear, humming, tapping your nails on a table, drumming/tapping your hand against your thigh, or things like that. I get that these things aren't inherently gendered but I've been told some of these "ruin the illusion" of my masculinity when I do them.

So are there certain tics you associate with one gender? What are they? What makes a certain tic gendered? Other opinions?

I have actually had to be schooled on feminine tics since my mannerisms come off as male. I wonder if I can get my boy-tics back. 

I've almost always had the female tic, even growing up as a boy.
Funniest I think was when I was about ten or eleven, one of the older girls in the group noticed that I walked like a girl. The hips swaying. And all the guys spent the next while trying to teach me how to walk like a guy 

Always been very expressive with my hands, flicked my hair, touched my mouth. And if I cross my legs, it's either at the ankles or the knee on top of the knee.
Hip always cocked standing and with the skinny stance I guess it's called?

Also remember playing a soccer match, and someone was taking photos and stuff. My stance and movements were completely off compared to all the other guys. Guess there was a reason they called me twinkletoes 

Wow I do and have always done every thing you mentioned except for the humming part but that has been done before too. So the things that you mentioned are gender specific for what gender? Could be why I have been perceived the way I was in the past and why some still treat me like they do. I ain't ever thought too much about it.

Quote from: Jess42 on November 19, 2014, 05:13:06 PM
Wow I do and have always done every thing you mentioned except for the humming part but that has been done before too. So the things that you mentioned are gender specific for what gender? Could be why I have been perceived the way I was in the past and why some still treat me like they do. I ain't ever thought too much about it.

All the ones I've listed aren't necessarily feminine but I've been told they are by others. I was told if I whistled as opposed to humming, it would sound much more manly. Why? I have no clue. However, my wife who is MTF gets gendered as male doing the same tics I mentioned. It just doesn't make sense!

Quote from: LoriLorenz on November 19, 2014, 04:41:07 PM

I have actually had to be schooled on feminine tics since my mannerisms come off as male. I wonder if I can get my boy-tics back. 

Me too. I got sent to learn how to walk like a girl way back when.  I don't think I pulled it off very well.

Quote from: wolfduality on November 20, 2014, 01:29:01 AM
All the ones I've listed aren't necessarily feminine but I've been told they are by others. I was told if I whistled as opposed to humming, it would sound much more manly. Why? I have no clue. However, my wife who is MTF gets gendered as male doing the same tics I mentioned. It just doesn't make sense!

Yeah, the whistling part I can understand. I haven't seen or noticed a lot of women whistling or a lot of men humming. It might just be everything added up together. Not just one of these little tics but all of them.

I've always had more masculine tics and mannerisms according to others. My mother would always (and sometimes still does) nag at me to "Sit with your legs together like a lady, you're sitting like a man." and other similar things. I was told that I have a bit of swagger when I walk which I'm guessing would be more of a masculine trait.

Quote from: captains on November 19, 2014, 01:28:01 PM
I definitely have gendered mannerisms. I sit like a man, but I don't stand like one. I've always got a hip cocked.

This!
And I can't stand hair in my face, so I fuss with it all the time. Bah  [emoji12] 

As I understand it, mannerisms and styles done have genders in their own right. But are aplied them by the individual due to how other people describe them through their exsperiences and asociations, and how the individual themselves asociate them through their exsperiences.

Eg, long hair is for the most part considered a femail thing, but if mr osborn and many male rock icons have anything to say about it they would argue length of hair is irelavent to gender. And the female artist pink is know for short hair styles.

So from my exsperience I've learned that it doesn't matter what I look Like how I act or sound. What makes me female is because I am. I make the same ascociation as most people see gender in the same way as most people, and understand that these thing don't determin it, but are instead ascociated with it.

So as to wether somthing you or I might do or say, sugesting we are of a differing gender to the one we claim, is as a result of those things for the most part being acociated with the oposite or another gender from anothers perspective.

And as to wether or not they subtract from the guy/girl apeal is down to wether or not you can pull it off sort of speak. Eg ozzy osborn can pull of long hair, without it detracying from his overall masculin apeall.

As an aded not, I have an exstensive shoe colection (for the most part ascociated with female) but as I say to my sister when she says even I'm not THAT girly, I say its not a girl thing, its not a boy thing, its a me thing .

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on November 20, 2014, 01:17:41 PM
As I understand it, mannerisms and styles done have genders in their own right. But are aplied them by the individual due to how other people describe them through their exsperiences and asociations, and how the individual themselves asociate them through their exsperiences.

Eg, long hair is for the most part considered a femail thing, but if mr osborn and many male rock icons have anything to say about it they would argue length of hair is irelavent to gender. And the female artist pink is know for short hair styles.

So from my exsperience I've learned that it doesn't matter what I look Like how I act or sound. What makes me female is because I am. I make the same ascociation as most people see gender in the same way as most people, and understand that these thing don't determin it, but are instead ascociated with it.

So as to wether somthing you or I might do or say, sugesting we are of a differing gender to the one we claim, is as a result of those things for the most part being acociated with the oposite or another gender from anothers perspective.

And as to wether or not they subtract from the guy/girl apeal is down to wether or not you can pull it off sort of speak. Eg ozzy osborn can pull of long hair, without it detracying from his overall masculin apeall.

As an aded not, I have an exstensive shoe colection (for the most part ascociated with female) but as I say to my sister when she says even I'm not THAT girly, I say its not a girl thing, its not a boy thing, its a me thing .

Speaking of Ozzy. Your post count is 666. That is pretty cool that you mentioned "The Prince of Darkness" at that specific post count.

Yeah but Ozzy and the others generally don't wear high heals or female clothing either. Well Stephen Tyler is kind of the verge. Even in the eighties with the makeup and teased hair, most still would pass as male because of the clothing. Even if it was skimpy and tight. But some just looking at the face, kind of was questionable. Especially the album cover of Look What the cat Dragged In by Poison. I think it is the overall image. Not necessarily one thing or another but everything added up.

For me it came pretty naturally and I was doing most of them anyway.

I've always crossed me legs, it was one of the reasons why I was bullied so much at school.

I've always been very femme.

To be fair I don't pay attention to these thing, altough I'm aware (and have been made aware) I do some of these. I care, sometimes, but I don't want to put so much effort into changing every little thing I do. I'm transitioning so I can finally be myself, not to put on a different mask.

Gendering is such an arbitrary thing too, I've passed to one person and 10 seconds later didn't pass to another. People just make a list of traits in their head, if the balance leans towards a they decide you're a. If the balance doesn't lean anywhere enough they'll start microanalyzing and focussing on something silly like the way you sit. They need it, so they can feel comfortable and put you in a safe little box. That's okay, but it really is pretty much random sometimes.
A couple of years ago before I started I did an internship with elderly people with a mental disability. I had short hair but i did wear skirts sometimes and 'feminine' clothing. However one lady refused to call me anything other then 'boy' (she didn't remember names) because girls have long hair, she even had short hair herself :p

I guess for me moments like that have taught me gendering is based on a persons own 'rules' about gender, and that if I'd have to comply to all of them i'd be so fake I could as well not transition (for me! I'm not talking about anyone but me here). I want to be free and be me. However if you do want to practice in them you can watch guys. Staring would not be appreciated but in public transport for instance you can totally look at guys and mimic a little (subtly) without being noticed. I've done that :p I also have a brother and I've mimicked him sometimes as well.

I think it might be more tricky for FtM than MtF. If you think about it women move how they like to and men have to behave in a certain way to be accepted. You even see this with clothes. Women wear male clothes and they are lesbian (which many find hot) or a tomboy I think you call it? Men on the other hand are gay (disgusted by many) less masculine and thus less interesting in many ways.

Not saying boohoo look at me just I can understand that for FtM it will be less natural to get rid of the tics. Just as soon as you do one of those tics, stop it or punish yourself ? I think I saw it in a comedy or so when someone lied or was rude he had a elastic around their wrist to pull. Sounds silly but might works ? I don't know.. just trying > _ <.

Confidence is more important than anything.

Flouncing, giggling, flicking your hair back, sashaying, and ending most statements on a high note of questioning are all overtly feminine.
Swagger/Strutting, being mesmerized by sports, wider stances, sprawling while sitting, and gross bodily noises are typically considered masculine.

Guys typically don't like discussing their feelings or body image, and can be parsimonious with compliments.  Close eye-contact tends to make them uncomfortable.  Fans of the same sports team are somehow all family while their team is playing.

Dancing, grooming habits, and hand gestures can be very gendered as well.  If you want an exaggerated example of gendered walking, watch male and female models walk a runway.  Models posing for photos can also be good examples of masculinity and femininity whether seated, standing, or otherwise posed or caught mid-action.



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