Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

New bannable offenses under the TOS

Started by Susan, November 19, 2014, 05:54:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Susan

TOS 10 has been modified.

Quote10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

  • Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term
  • Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
  • Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive whatever the provocation.

Violating TOS 10 is now a bannable offense.

Part 2 of TOS 15 is also bannable, both portions.

Quote15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand. Members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.
Susan Larson
Founder
Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Help support this website and our community by Donating or Subscribing!
  •  

mrs izzy

Mrs. Izzy
Trans lifeline US 877-565-8860 CAD 877-330-6366 http://www.translifeline.org/
"Those who matter will never judge, this is my given path to walk in life and you have no right to judge"

I used to be grounded but now I can fly.
  •  


AnonyMs

I didn't really understand the purpose of this site for quite a long time.

Perhaps I missed something obvious, I do that sometimes. There's lots of support sites out there, but this one is different, and not just bigger. More emotional support among other things.

I read the TOS when I joined with great interest. It certainly reflects a certain philosophy, but I think I missed the support angle. I didn't really agree with some of it, nor the constant moderation, but I've come to realize that its made this site unique, and uniquely valuable. There's nothing wrong with going to other sites, they serve different purposes and you go where you need to, when you need to. I spend a lot of time on YouTube, where seeing people talk is a completely different experience.

I think it would be helpful if the purpose of the site was explained more clearly, right up front. What is is, what its not, and the difference from other sites. List the other sites, explain and direct people to them if that's where they should be. Probably the newcomers who stay will feel whole lot better about it as well. I wasn't really sure why I stayed to start with, but I think I understand it now.
  •  

cathyrains

I hold what is, perhaps, an outdated view of internet forums. That is to say I believe that forums are place for discussion and as such are defined by their members posts.  Moderation here exists only to facilitate civil discussion never to work against it.
Exceptions to the norm do not constitute a spectrum.
  •  

mrs izzy

Quote from: AnonyMs on November 19, 2014, 08:31:21 AM
I didn't really understand the purpose of this site for quite a long time.

Perhaps I missed something obvious, I do that sometimes. There's lots of support sites out there, but this one is different, and not just bigger. More emotional support among other things.

I read the TOS when I joined with great interest. It certainly reflects a certain philosophy, but I think I missed the support angle. I didn't really agree with some of it, nor the constant moderation, but I've come to realize that its made this site unique, and uniquely valuable. There's nothing wrong with going to other sites, they serve different purposes and you go where you need to, when you need to. I spend a lot of time on YouTube, where seeing people talk is a completely different experience.

I think it would be helpful if the purpose of the site was explained more clearly, right up front. What is is, what its not, and the difference from other sites. List the other sites, explain and direct people to them if that's where they should be. Probably the newcomers who stay will feel whole lot better about it as well. I wasn't really sure why I stayed to start with, but I think I understand it now.

Wish to add this. I feel it's missed a miss all the background noise.

Every one is welcome at Susan's Place provided you follow a few basic rules: This site is an open support area, and is not generally sexually oriented. The purpose of this site is to provide peer support, and to provide a forum for the discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists to offer constructive input and support.

This is our site mission. Simple if it is read.
Mrs. Izzy
Trans lifeline US 877-565-8860 CAD 877-330-6366 http://www.translifeline.org/
"Those who matter will never judge, this is my given path to walk in life and you have no right to judge"

I used to be grounded but now I can fly.
  •  

Sheila Grace

I am new but appreciate the boundary definition. I come from a long history with 12 step meetings and am very respectful here about what is and is not appropriate. I am also in need of "adult supervision" while I am so young in my journey. Thanks again for the clarification.
I am an older MTF in transition. Currently negotiating this time of life with my SO of many years. I am PT and on HRT.



  •  

JulieBlair

"Members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack."

I have felt attacked here, in that my truth as expressed in some posts has been responded to, not with acceptance, but with correction.  The challenge for you is to determine at what point that rises to an offence.  To respond aggressively when I or one I care for is disrespected by not being allowed the freedom to express their point of view or when their personal angst is repeatedly met with a pointed and aggressive lack of validation is something I have certainly been guilty of.  Is that bannable?  It is certainly personal, is it necessary to accept the assault and report, or can I respond with consideration but firmness?

Julie
I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.  :D
Full Time 18 June 2014
Esprit can be found at http://espritconf.com/
  •  

stephaniec

  •  

Jaime R D

I'm just glad that being stupid isn't bannable yet, otherwise, I'd be in trouble.
  •  

ThePhoenix

Quote from: JulieBlair on November 19, 2014, 10:03:41 AM
"Members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack."

I have felt attacked here, in that my truth as expressed in some posts has been responded to, not with acceptance, but with correction.  The challenge for you is to determine at what point that rises to an offence.  To respond aggressively when I or one I care for is disrespected by not being allowed the freedom to express their point of view or when their personal angst is repeatedly met with a pointed and aggressive lack of validation is something I have certainly been guilty of.  Is that bannable?  It is certainly personal, is it necessary to accept the assault and report, or can I respond with consideration but firmness?

Julie

This is my question as well.  I'm sure we've all had the experience of saying something well intentioned and being shocked when someone feels like it is a personal attack.  If a user says something they think is constructive and helpful, but a mod/admin mistakes it for a personal attack, is that bannable?  At what point point does it become bannable?  What if a mod or admin were to mistake this good faith, honest question about what the rules mean and how to obey them for a passive aggressive attempt to stage a public protest? 

This seems especially relevant to me since the stuff I post about tends to be activism related--particularly legislative lobbying, street level campaigning, community organizing, and other topics.  By nature, I talk about things that are going to be controversial and where people are prone to interpret things as personal attacks whenever possible.  I have even written things only to be publicly accused of launching personal attacks on people who I did not mention and who had nothing to do with the subject at hand.  It's bizarre, but it's the nature of the beast. 

I don't mean to brag, but I'm a fairly major activist and community builder based in the national capital region.  I'm involved in big stuff for this community, like D.C. and FEHB trans* inclusive healthcare or the Fairness for All Marylanders Act gender identity non-discrimination law, I'm also a lawyer who follows and practices in trans* rights law.  I hope and believe that having someone like me here as a contributor is of value to the site and its membership.  Not many people can provide the kind of input, information, and knowledge that I can.  Most people who could do that are not very interested in talking much with average, ordinary, grassroots trans* people.  I happen to think they are wrong for paying so little attention to the grassroots, so I consider this to be worthwhile.  But in my line of work, sometimes things get said that are mistaken for personal attacks when they aren't.  (And in fairness, sometimes things get said that really are personal attacks, though I think I'm less prone to them than many).

Being banned would not actually affect me very much beyond annoying me.  Reading is much more valuable to me than posting, and this is far from the only place to read.  But whatever value I may give to the membership in exchange would be lost.  So I'd like to understand where the lines are so that I don't get annoyed, I don't lose value, and I don't stop sharing useful stuff for fear of becoming annoyed or losing value.  Guidance would be appreciated.


  •  

mrs izzy

It saddens me that some think the moderators and administrative staff have no objectiveness and can not make a decision of what would violate site rules.

I just wonder how thousands of posts a day manage to work without issues with-in site TOS?

As anything we are not a dictatorship but just volunteers who work to keep 1 post out of thousands from disrupting the experiences of others.

If in doubt of your response or topic maybe it just better to no post.

As i said there are thousands of post a day and most that have issues are forum members and report them via the moderators report button. Please use it we can not be everywhere.

Susan and the family has done so much over so many years and i am glad i give of my time to keep her dream of a great support site safe for everyone in the family.

Isabell

Mrs. Izzy
Trans lifeline US 877-565-8860 CAD 877-330-6366 http://www.translifeline.org/
"Those who matter will never judge, this is my given path to walk in life and you have no right to judge"

I used to be grounded but now I can fly.
  •  

Devlyn

Quote from: mrs izzy on November 19, 2014, 12:46:17 PM
It saddens me that some think the moderators and administrative staff have no objectiveness and can not make a decision of what would violate site rules.

I just wonder how thousands of posts a day manage to work without issues with-in site TOS?

As anything we are not a dictatorship but just volunteers who work to keep 1 post out of thousands from disrupting the experiences of others.

If in doubt of your response or topic maybe it just better to no post.

As i said there are thousands of post a day and most that have issues are forum members and report them via the moderators report button. Please use it we can not be everywhere.

Susan and the family has done so much over so many years and i am glad i give of my time to keep her dream of a great support site safe for everyone in the family.

Isabell

I understand where you are, hon. Each decision leaves some people happy and some people not so happy. Wanna borrow a Teddy Bear?

Hugs, Devlyn
  •  

mrs izzy

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 19, 2014, 01:07:57 PM
I understand where you are, hon. Each decision leaves some people happy and some people not so happy. Wanna borrow a Teddy Bear?

Hugs, Devlyn

Yes could use one next few weeks.

Ty.
Mrs. Izzy
Trans lifeline US 877-565-8860 CAD 877-330-6366 http://www.translifeline.org/
"Those who matter will never judge, this is my given path to walk in life and you have no right to judge"

I used to be grounded but now I can fly.
  •  

cathyrains

Staff have repeatedly urged members to use the "report to moderator" function. What happens if the problem is with a moderator? My observation has been that very little, if anything, is done in these cases and sometimes results in banning of the person reporting the problem.
Exceptions to the norm do not constitute a spectrum.
  •  

ThePhoenix

Quote from: mrs izzy on November 19, 2014, 12:46:17 PM
It saddens me that some think the moderators and administrative staff have no objectiveness and can not make a decision of what would violate site rules.

I just wonder how thousands of posts a day manage to work without issues with-in site TOS?

As anything we are not a dictatorship but just volunteers who work to keep 1 post out of thousands from disrupting the experiences of others.

If in doubt of your response or topic maybe it just better to no post.

As i said there are thousands of post a day and most that have issues are forum members and report them via the moderators report button. Please use it we can not be everywhere.

Susan and the family has done so much over so many years and i am glad i give of my time to keep her dream of a great support site safe for everyone in the family.

Isabell

Hugs and many thanks for all the hard work, Isabell.  I honor the site's moderators for having helped many people.  I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that your response is directed toward me.

I am certainly not accusing anyone of being a dictator.  I never said that and I can't imagine myself doing so.  It's the opposite of what I believe. 

And it would be both a personal attack and a protest, which would violate both old and new TOS.

Which makes it a great example of why I'm confused.  If your response is directed at me, then it's a great example of how two well intentioned people can have a misunderstanding.  And I honestly do not understand how I could have avoided it because I simply did not say that.  And if it's not aimed at me, then I apologize for misunderstanding.  But we're still having a misunderstanding that involves things that seem like TOS violations.  It just goes to show how easily misunderstandings happen.  So it brings me back to my original question:

What should I be doing to avoid getting a TOS violation?

Does that help clarify what I'm asking? 
  •  

Devlyn

  •  

mrs izzy

Mrs. Izzy
Trans lifeline US 877-565-8860 CAD 877-330-6366 http://www.translifeline.org/
"Those who matter will never judge, this is my given path to walk in life and you have no right to judge"

I used to be grounded but now I can fly.
  •  

JulieBlair

Quote from: cathyrains on November 19, 2014, 01:38:33 PM
Staff have repeatedly urged members to use the "report to moderator" function. What happens if the problem is with a moderator? My observation has been that very little, if anything, is done in these cases and sometimes results in banning of the person reporting the problem.

Moderators are people too, and are subject to all the insecurities and pressures of members.  But the observation is valid.  IMHO moderators are simultaneously held to a higher standard and also given a pass unless the issue is clear and egregious. Clarity is usually rare. "I'm only trying to help" is a thin excuse.  Yes what is asked of you is superhuman, and yes objectivity is almost impossible, and yes people like me are a pain in the ass, but that is the cost of living on the inside of a social organization.  I am willing to report, but I am not currently active and I wonder at the operational efficacy. 

Some insightful and knowledgeable intellects have been lost, that is the nature of things and there is ample talent in the wings, but some of these people, myself included, spend many nights and salvage whatever moments throughout the day they can to be there for the dispossessed.  The  loss of any is a loss to all in the fragile world we live and work in.  I've talked people away from harming themselves, and tried desperately to always show compassion.  I'll continue to do that for as long as I live. 

That I question my ability to be effective within the non-binary sphere  in this very powerful medium is very sad to me.  That I question it because I am unsure of the acceptance of people who are not at one of the bi-modal ends of the gender identity spectrum makes me cry.  I freely acknowledge the enormous debt I have to both Susan and a dedicated unpaid staff.  For all your work and all your frustration I salute and support you.  I also mourn the loss of the perspective of friends here.  Their wisdom isn't lost to me, there are other venues and electronic media exist for a reason, but this is the place where amateurs gave me the wisdom I needed to become who I am.  And regardless of anything or anyone else in my world, I like myself today, and for that I am grateful.

Regards,
Julie
I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.  :D
Full Time 18 June 2014
Esprit can be found at http://espritconf.com/
  •  

Jill F

Quote from: cathyrains on November 19, 2014, 01:38:33 PM
Staff have repeatedly urged members to use the "report to moderator" function. What happens if the problem is with a moderator? My observation has been that very little, if anything, is done in these cases and sometimes results in banning of the person reporting the problem.

If you have a problem with a moderator (and we are just perfectly imperfect human beings like everyone else), report it and/or PM an administrator.  The ToS applies to us as well.
  •