We all know sugar coating happens quite a bit on these forums.

Understandable. If you just had your parents scolding you, you risk losing your partner or you just feel for sharing your story for the first time. The last you want to hear is that you might be doing it wrong.

Although in most cases, are the reactions not understandable? Sure, parents not accepting you suck but before that they loved you for who you are. Even if not in the gender feeling right for you but for who you are as a person. Then your now partner with possible even children threatens to end the relationship. This hurts but you also turned their life upside down with just saying that single thing. I personally don't understand how in many cases the suggestions basically are, stop doing what others want and do what makes you happy. How can you be happy if you can just drop an others feelings and focus fully on yours?

I do believe everyone should do what makes them happy. For one it takes more effort and/or struggles than the other. One might needs to work on their posture, clothes or one should even consider surgery. The other might be perfect at everything but should reconsider the way they tell it to the people around them. We are not perfect and especially when trying to be something we avoided for years, it isn't weird to make (many) mistakes.

On these forums we sugar coat a lot, afraid to hurt the other. We tell you should; just do what makes you happy, that you look fine, perfect even, nothing to worry about. But wouldn't it be more realistic if within the trans community we feel save to suggest others what is best for them with the best intentions, instead of people outside the community to do it with the worst?

Maybe this message comes out of nowhere, but I seen people say their opinions before and get negativity as respond. I wish the best for everyone here, but I don't like sugar coating. I rather was told (happened before these forums) my short leather jacket looked funny on me, instead of being laughed at by people to realize so. That is why I don't sugar coat but still do feel like we can't be completely honest with each other either.

I said it earlier today, we're not a discussion site, we're a support site. This isn't a place to toughen up, it's a place where you can cry because you're broken, and someone will come sit with you.

Hugs, Devlyn

PS My mom always said "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" She never mentioned sugar coating.

Quote from: Kirey on November 19, 2014, 06:48:09 PM
We all know sugar coating happens quite a bit on these forums.

Understandable. If you just had your parents scolding you, you risk losing your partner or you just feel for sharing your story for the first time. The last you want to hear is that you might be doing it wrong.

Although in most cases, are the reactions not understandable? Sure, parents not accepting you suck but before that they loved you for who you are. Even if not in the gender feeling right for you but for who you are as a person. Then your now partner with possible even children threatens to end the relationship. This hurts but you also turned their life upside down with just saying that single thing. I personally don't understand how in many cases the suggestions basically are, stop doing what others want and do what makes you happy. How can you be happy if you can just drop an others feelings and focus fully on yours?

I do believe everyone should do what makes them happy. For one it takes more effort and/or struggles than the other. One might needs to work on their posture, clothes or one should even consider surgery. The other might be perfect at everything but should reconsider the way they tell it to the people around them. We are not perfect and especially when trying to be something we avoided for years, it isn't weird to make (many) mistakes.

On these forums we sugar coat a lot, afraid to hurt the other. We tell you should; just do what makes you happy, that you look fine, perfect even, nothing to worry about. But wouldn't it be more realistic if within the trans community we feel save to suggest others what is best for them with the best intentions, instead of people outside the community to do it with the worst?

Maybe this message comes out of nowhere, but I seen people say their opinions before and get negativity as respond. I wish the best for everyone here, but I don't like sugar coating. I rather was told (happened before these forums) my short leather jacket looked funny on me, instead of being laughed at by people to realize so. That is why I don't sugar coat but still do feel like we can't be completely honest with each other either.

I am there with you girl! I prefer frankness and clarity, the trick is not to cross into an offense. I think we, the transgender folks, tend to overreact, and the majority suffers from the "victimization" syndrome...

You just wait and see how I get scolded for what I said above... even though it is just my perception and opinion....

I certainly won't scold you. They took away my stainless steel Scolder, anyway!

I haven't been here very long, but I think that I have noticed what you are saying.
There is a huge difference between honesty and being mean, but I feel that sometimes they are viewed as the same thing here.

Personally if I wore something awful, I'd rather someone tell me instead of just saying it's lovely or whatever. Like I might not care and go for it anyway. But criticism can be very helpful.
When I was wearing a bit of makeup the first few times, one of my friends told me I needed to fix it basically, but in more vulgar terms I guess. But she helped me and such and it's so much better and I love her for it  Almost everyone else was like yeah, it's fine or whatever.

And sometimes we need to be told to stop acting this way or that. I'm all for looking out for yourself first and foremost, but they're are times when one should consider others in their lives. Definitely agree with the victimization point Peky made. And some of the replies on topics such as that just enable? it. (Enable seems like the wrong word but it's late and I can't think  )

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 19, 2014, 07:08:33 PM
I certainly won't scold you. They took away my stainless steel Scolder, anyway!

I will take the "woody" one then... thank you 

Quote from: Ash on November 19, 2014, 07:09:59 PM
I haven't been here very long, but I think that I have noticed what you are saying.
There is a huge difference between honesty and being mean, but I feel that sometimes they are viewed as the same thing here.

Personally if I wore something awful, I'd rather someone tell me instead of just saying it's lovely or whatever. Like I might not care and go for it anyway. But criticism can be very helpful.
When I was wearing a bit of makeup the first few times, one of my friends told me I needed to fix it basically, but in more vulgar terms I guess. But she helped me and such and it's so much better and I love her for it  Almost everyone else was like yeah, it's fine or whatever.

And sometimes we need to be told to stop acting this way or that. I'm all for looking out for yourself first and foremost, but they're are times when one should consider others in their lives. Definitely agree with the victimization point Peky made. And some of the replies on topics such as that just enable? it. (Enable seems like the wrong word but it's late and I can't think  )

and yet, if I am pointed to my "offensive" post... I am willing and ready to apologize, and move on... just like in real life situations...

I don't think I've sugar coated anything. Specifically about my wife - she is upset and I am 100% to blame. Well my mom too if she took DES or similar.

Can not speak for others, but at face value it can be hard to know what someone wants, some want truth, some want lies, while some want just an ear. So without direct guidance most will be careful in what they say. My best recommandation is if you want unadultered, none sugar coated truth, say it. Heck someone may even decide to answer you privately by pm if its too personal. But you will get what you need.

Even if this is a support site, I feel like that cannot come at the expense of our honesty.  Frankly, I think we have nothing less than an obligation to offer the truth when someone asks for it.  When we offer a lie, even if it is a white lie in order to make someone feel better, we are often doing them more harm than good.  Thinking back to the early days of my transition, and how often the truth was glossed over for me, I can't help but think I not have transitioned if I knew the reality I was going to face.  Or, perhaps that's an exaggeration, but I would have made an informed decision.  As is, I did not make one and while I'm glad about many things that have happened, I still resent the fact that I never made an informed choice. 

And so it is with every other issue that comes up on this site: People want to make informed decisions, and by masking the truth, we are preventing them from having the facts they need to make those decisions.  I see it especially on the passing threads; we are lying to people, and even if it boasts their self esteem, it is wrong.  Of course we should be kind and gentle in offering our guidance, but we have an obligation to be honest.  People are looking to us for the truth, and believe that is what they are receiving.  Sugarcoating on this site NEEDS TO STOP.

I think a degree of sugar coating is appropriate for a support website, but at the same time letting someone be blissful is not exactly supportive.  The middle ground between blind support and indictment is clearly the place people need to be, and I think that you are right that people are not there enough.

Quote from: skin on November 20, 2014, 03:42:07 AM
I think a degree of sugar coating is appropriate for a support website, but at the same time letting someone be blissful is not exactly supportive.  The middle ground between blind support and indictment is clearly the place people need to be, and I think that you are right that people are not there enough.

Sugar coating stuff is not support. It's more than possible to give constructive criticism without having to bend the truth by coating it in BS..

We have to remember we are asking others here that most likely are also fragile and give a opinion in line of how they wish to hear.

Opinion are just that. They can help calm fears or fuel fires.

I like honesty because it lets me know where I am. I guess it is the mindset of an engineer. I measure and diagnose things for a living. I need the truth otherwise I'm wasting time. That said I try to be nice about it, meaning I wouldn't say something mean but I would try to offer constructive criticism. It has worked well for me in my professional relationships and it carries well into my personal life. Even my wife is shocked by my honesty but she doesn't think I'm mean or something. If that dress makes you look fat, yes it does and she's more appreciative of an honest "wow, you're hot" when she earned it than fake flattery when she didn't.

there is a world off difference telling some one they are gorgeous and adorable or you look fine and are progressing well, kindness and honesty go a long way

You have two kind of people. The ones telling you, you got something on your face. Or the ones feeling bad to do so and letting you walk around, looking funny all day. It sucks to be told something looks off for a moment but isn't it better to be told beforehand than to be looked funny at all day?

I am not sure why I made this thread. Not to rebel and to change how the website works. Mostly to see what other people think of this subject. It is nice to have a website around where people can feel safe. Get support and talk to someone as if someone stands or sits beside them. Holding their hand. But support isn't giving by simply agreeing with what the other says or shows. Neither by bluntly putting your opinion out there and crushing someones dream.

To me some things don't add up on this website. On one hand many members tell the others; do what makes you happy. You look great, pass-able, without doubt. You will be fine. On the other hand, almost all new threads are about the opposite, unhappy situations and things going wrong. It is fine to give positive criticism. To tell someone everything will be fine and to be a listening ear. But don't close your and their eyes for the negativity either. Very bluntly put, being a transgender is in most cases a harsh life with many struggles and HRT doesn't automatically makes it all easier. So don't make it seem as if HRT is 'the' way out. I think it would be a good thing if it is also a possibility to tell someone what they are doing might not be the best decision or suggest them a different path. Without having to defend yourself after.

And to randomly put this out there which is pretty unrelated to this I think . But I also see many say that transition is not something to be proud of. It wasn't an option. It was either this or dying. That is still an option. If you choose to continue living and go trough all the struggles to be happy then I think you can be pretty proud at yourself. Just saying!

Maybe I am reflecting this too much on myself also and I realize we don't all handle everything in the same way. I personally always heard how hard something was only to find the happy stuff coming after the struggles. I just don't believe you help anyone just by telling the good news when we are talking about supporting others.

Remember, people have very different views of what is beauty. When someone "sugar coats" in your words a member asking for advice, they may  really see that beauty honestly. We all have views and opinions and to invalidate what another person says is judgment on that person and every one else who agrees with them. 

I don't sugar coat anything. At least not intentionally.

But I would say that worrying over what others think is not healthy. In fact, a great deal of my own therapy has involved me "letting go". Letting go of changing my spouse's mind. Letting go of changing my son's mind. Letting go of trying to save my marriage once my spouse said it was over. Letting go of others dictating how I had to present and behave.

I can only be responsible for me. If someone decides to be hurt by what I said, that's their choice. Now I do try to be tactful. I do try to choose my words carefully. But I've had to learn to not be co-dependent, to stand up for myself, to make my own choices, and to accept when others walk away from me because they do not accept my choices. That's been painful but it's also been liberating because I now no longer see myself as worthless outside the context of husband and father. I am a human being. I am a woman. I am worthy in my own right of life, love, and happiness.

 one thing , I don't think people benefit from getting their psychotherapy from a impersonal, unaccountable public forum, help in getting directions to professionals and some shoulders to cry on, but psychotherapy no.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on November 20, 2014, 10:37:54 AM
Remember, people have very different views of what is beauty. When someone "sugar coats" in your words a member asking for advice, they may  really see that beauty honestly. We all have views and opinions and to invalidate what another person says is judgment on that person and every one else who agrees with them. 

Exactly!  Opinions are just that, opinions and the thoughts belong the particular individual only. What is beautiful to one person isn't always the same to another. We all need to keep this in mind when we post or reply to a post.