Hi all,

So in the wake of the video showcasing street harassment against a cis woman who walked around NYC with a camera for 10 hours, there have been other this-is-what-it-feels-like videos. Courtesy of stophomophobia.com, I watched this video this morning -

http://www.newnownext.com/three-hours-of-walking-in-nyc-as-a-homosexual-watch/11/2014/

- of a cis, straight man dressing himself up as a "homosexual" and taking to the streets of New York for a few hours and dealing with some cutting harassment and intimidation along the way from seemingly both gay and straight men and cis women, as well. Now...many people have pointed out in the comments that very few gay men would ever actually dress like that (a Victoria's Secret bag?) and therefore seem to think that the results don't show anything about homophobia...

...I agree.

Despite what the epithets we heard tell us, this isn't homophobia. It's fear of gender-variance. Few MAAB would dare to walk around with those feminine markers - tight clothes, VS bag - society is just too intolerant. But you know who might? Non-binary people. Androgynous people. All across the spectrum of sexuality.

So it got me to thinking...it seems like a lot of what society calls "homophobia" is not about a fear of someone's love or attraction (how we generally define someone's sexual orientation, no?) at all, but fear about the ways in which people violate gender norms. Boys call the unathletic boy "f-g" not because of his perceived orientation, but because of his failure to conform to masculine norms. I don't think that's exactly "transphobia," either. So what is it?

I'm also curious if there is anyone on here who regularly does present like the guy in the video. And whether their experience has been similar.

Cheers.

There was a time many years ago while I was trying to sort out who I was, when for a while I lived and loved in the gay community in Seattle.  When in the clubs flamboyance was the dress code.  In my "real" world I would have been beaten or killed dressed as the guy in the video.  It was a more violent time against gender non-conforming people, but evidently things have not progressed as far as I have wished for.   I was glad to notice that not everyone was abusive, some expressions of friendly support were also evident.  I have always thought that young men, until their brains are more fully developed, ought to be put on testosterone antagonists.  Clearly their mouths have not fully connected to their brains.

Julie

You can see gay guys dressed like that most weekends in Blackpool(even at this freezing cold time of year),very few people pay much attention to them

Here's the funny thing: In a way, this man did experience homophobia because markers of gender nonconformity is the stereotype for homosexuality among the uneducated masses. Think about: How many times have you had to explain that there is a difference between being trans and being gay? How many gay and lesbian couples do you know had to deal with the question "Who's the man and who's the woman?" How many homosexual and transgender folk hide behind and performances of stereotypical gender behavior to protect themselves from bigotry. In Western culture, despite being horribly inaccurate, there is a belief that sex=gender=sexuality=behavior. Thus, homophobia and transphobia are intrinsically linked by the societal contempt for gender nonconformity. Hence the banner of LGBT was born.

Wow. You do raise important points, and I never thought of it that way. I think you're onto something.

To be honest, I think dressing like that claiming that represents gay men is homophobic.
I also think getting gender roles confused with gender does trans people a disservice. Our identities, including non binary identities, are real.
Maybe that could be considered gender variance, but I honestly don't know any women who would dress like that.
But yeah, the responses he got may have been due to homophobia, intolerance of gender variance, or a horrible taste in clothing.

Well, if the root of the fear of gender variance is homophobia, my guess would be it's because everyone seems to find androgyny a little hot.  aaand, I think that scares some people when they realize they're feeling attracted to the "wrong" gender. Post-surgery I've caught people checking me out from all sides now; straight men, gay men, gay women, straight women, both cis and trans. Does a number to my ego. 

On the other side of the coin, that means gender-variant people are on the frontlines though, man. I was a "straight-looking" and "-acting" lesbian for 10 years before I started thinking about gender. Deeply involved in evangelical Christianity at the time, I was really annoyed with the feminine men and masculine women who gave gay people a "bad name;" I wanted homosexuality to be associated with "normal," God-fearing, khaki-wearing, child-rearing church folk, not the hooligans who wore dog collars and danced around in the streets in their underwear.  It took me a long time before I stopped judging and started celebrating the gender diversity within our community. It took me even longer to realize I didn't know my place on the gender spectrum as well as I thought I did.

Now I'm the one that many cis gay folks - and some binary trans folks - want to disassociate themselves from, because I don't fit. I give both gay and trans people a bad name by association because whether it's orientation or gender, I'm clearly "doing it wrong." 

If I could go back in LGBTQ history, I would orient our movement around gender variance instead of attraction. Instead of pouring so much energy into convincing people that men can love men and women can love women, I would broaden the scope to tearing down the boundaries that defined men as men and women as women in the first place. With those categories dismantled, freedom to be attracted to whomever you happen to be attracted to would follow naturally.

Does celebrating gender diversity mean only recognizing queer men who wear orange pants (which, in my opinion, has nothing to do with gender and more to do with horrible fashion sense)? What about all the other queer men of which there is a wide variety?
I don't think anyone is giving queer people a bad name just by existing as themselves. I think the media and public perception is giving queer people a bad name by ignoring the fact that we're as diverse and varied as anyone else.
It's the same with gender. There are as many ways to be a gender as there are people with that gender.

-From the point of view of a queer, metalhead pagan who is studying to be a neuroscientist, who has never been god-fearing in his life, and who doesn't know what "straight-acting" means because there are as many ways to act straight as there are straight people. Also a guy who would not dance in the streets in his underwear. Because there are more than two ways to be and the rest of us exist too.

Lauren explains it better than I can:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0co0minMG6I&list=UUamaea05bOJ0q42F9iyaFMA

TLDW: Gender ID, Sexuality, and Expression are supposed to be 'in sinc' with each other, and when 'normal' heterosexual people see someone who is in some way deviant they feel they have a right to 'correct' that person by shaming/hurting them. This is why all different kinds of people who are gender and/or sexual minorities have to work together to fight the common enemy: Heteronormativity.

Quote from: Edge on November 24, 2014, 06:03:31 PM
Does celebrating gender diversity mean only recognizing queer men who wear orange pants (which, in my opinion, has nothing to do with gender and more to do with horrible fashion sense)?

No, diversity celebrates that "straight-acting" people and heteronormative people and people with "horrible fashion sense" and people who dance in the streets in their underwear and god-fearing people and neuroscientists are all welcome under the queer umbrella.