Now I am not someone who easily shuts her mouth. But it does depend on who I got in front of me, whether I need their help or if they need mine. If it is a group on the street or a family member.

I think everyone, at some point, gotten across negativity about transgenders. If not about another then directly to themselves. I guess I can consider myself pretty lucky. Everyone so far in interviews, internships, school, family and friends, accepts me for who I am. But I did already experience some negativity outside that circle.

People laughing at you, or whispering behind your back. Usually I just pass by and ignore it but I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me. Once I spoke to a lady who first had seen a picture of me. She directly told me; At first I didn't know what you were but I just imagined your hair away to see you are a guy. You got tricks like those. I had a wtf moment and didn't even knew how to respond to it. But it surely did irritate me.

Now I asked before on this forum; When are you a certain gender? How do you respond?

Whenever I ask these questions, I get the longest responses. Detailed with how mind and body comes together and takes over the world with theories as big as the universe coming together. Basically, each their own. Everyone has their own thoughts about it which is good, but no one has a short answer for it. Probably because there isn't any. We all know there is more to it than just the appearance or the genital.

Now I have been bullied in the past to a point that I grew older, gotten more confident and just stood in front of them staring with disgust. It didn't bother me anymore and I kinda felt in a way as; If you are someone who can feel better by making another feel worse.. I am better than you. Better than to feel harmed by such people.  Thing is, I can't do that with this matter. I know it also won't help to tell someone what is going on or to tell them it is rude because people who enjoy negativity will also enjoy the reactions coming from you with it.

I think everyone on these forums in one way or another notices these kind of struggles. If even just the fear of someone not knowing we are transgender not knowing how they will react.

I am not asking of ways how to cope with it but ways of how to deal with it. Not just for me personally, but every trans-person.

Look further than just telling me how you cope with it, or how you would respond to it. What do you think has to happen for everyone to realize that transgenders are not the weird ones out? If you think a comet has to crash into our planet for everyone to realize we are all equal, then say that. I wonder if you had any option to make a change then what do you think there should happen?

Realistically? We'll never (within the next century) see everyone accept transgender people as who they feel themselves to be.

Deal with it. Blacks deal with this today constantly. No matter what laws are passed, short of the creator of the universe stepping out and saying directly to the bigots "WTF, yo? STOP IT!", it's not going to stop completely, ever.

The best we can do is learn to live with stupid bigoted people and get on with our lives as best we can. We need to legislate. We need to sue the pants off bigots when we can. We need to expose their hypocrisy and laugh at them. (Humor terrifies them because they think they are not being taken seriously.) We need to make bigotry have negative social costs and to be a socially unacceptable position. We need to drive it as deep under a rock as we can.

But no matter how deep we drive it... it's never going away in the lifetime of anyone living today. So... deal with it.

...

Kay, to put it  a bit lighter then since that was taken wayyy too seriously and again drawn to the negative. What do you think there has to happen for there to be a change in the world of how people think about transgenders?

Other people will and cannot change by external force or motivation. Nor can they force me or you to change something about ourselves. The Will to change has to come from inside someone, the Will to be more accepting, forgiving, and less judgmental has to be a choice in growing mentally and spiritually. No matter how old someone is, some people never grow up. They never grow and educate themselves and remain infinite children, some even die this way. Sadly, we live in the age of the Ego, where self-gratification is the number one priority. Unless people are willing to grow and change, nothing will happen. One part of the problem is proper schooling and education. The first thing a child should learn is INTEGRITY: The integrity of self and others, is the basis for mutual respect. Integrity teaches inner values. But the way things are these days, I guess it is a lost cause for the most part. Few are interested in changing, and change in general.

So there is only one solution left: I can change how I deal with such people and circumstances. I can make that change, I can deal with it gracefully. I can forgive ignorance, and still be who I am. Someone's opinion doesn't change anything in my reality, unless I choose to.

Ok, Kirey, you want my opinion on what has to change for transgender people to be seen as just normal human beings and accepted? Exactly what another thread in this forum showed that most trans people do not want to do - be seen and identified as trans while living normal lives. The LGB community began to achieve acceptance when more of them were out and proud of who they were and showed the world that they were not a bunch of perverts (as claimed by the radical right wing ideologues).

How bad were those lies? Take a look at this film about homosexuality from the 1950s.

1950s Education on "Homosexuals"

That is exactly where trans people are today. We are described the way homosexuals are presented in this film.

And for that to change will take education and positive visible role models.

Now I am not arguing that everyone should be out. I did not say that and I understand the fear and stress that goes with being out and publicly visible especially in these very backwards times in which we live. But the simple truth is that people change their perceptions based on their experiences, not on rational argument. And if you are never known as trans out there in the world, if your boyfriend never knows, if his family never knows, if your employer never knows, well, gee, that's nice for you but it allows stereotypes to perpetuate.

A few months ago, I met a loud and boisterous man who asserted that he'd never met a transwoman and if he did he could spot them from a mile away. I didn't "out" myself immediately but just let him talk. Two friends began to ask him how he would know. He recited tropes and stereotypes as "proof" that he could pick out any transwoman.

Finally, I said, "Just for the sake of argument, looking around you, which of the women at this gathering might be trans?" He looked around and laughed and said (loudly), "None!" At that point I said simply, "I am trans." Then one of my friends spoke up and said, "I am trans."

The look of sheer horror on his face was priceless and I didn't care if I changed his mind, but I added, "There are trans people around you every day and you never even know it. We're just people, like you or anyone else." Several others there smiled at me and nodded. They "got it". Whether he got it or not didn't really matter. He was so set in his bigotry that it was probably going to take a bigger shock than that to make a difference. But for others present I made a difference. Many of them were already LGBT friendly, but I and my friend outing ourselves like that reaffirmed what they knew. They will be better and more vocal allies for us going forward. They'll relay that same story to others.

It is precisely millions and millions of little events like that which will slowly alter society's view to where we become generally accepted and then not persecuted for being who we are.

And as I said above, changing the minds of everyone isn't likely to happen.

Quote from: Kirey on November 22, 2014, 10:44:15 AM
If you think a comet has to crash into our planet for everyone to realize we are all equal, then say that.

If a comet were to crash into Earth we'd all be equal for sure, equally dead! 

Media needs to stop sensationalising trans people (it is starting to happen in some quarters) and TV and film needs to stop the negative stereotypes. Building on what LizMarie said above, gay men used to be portrayed in a very camp, stereotypical way and that has since become less and less the case. Lesbians used to be all but invisible. Gay and lesbian characters are now being portrayed in sympathetic non stereotypical (mostly) non sensationalistic ways. Took well over fifty years, but finally! Will that happen eventually for trans people? I don't see why not.

My question to the haters is "Why the big deal?"  It's really not.   People who suffer from a well-documented medical condition are getting treated for it.  BFD.   Sadly, I think that gender dysphoria is the only condition that a large segment of society will hate you for attempting to seek relief from. 

It's a big deal to many because they refuse to recognize the medical aspect and look at it as delusion or mental illness.  It doesn't help in the USA that most churches push that viewpoint.


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Quote from: Deborah on November 22, 2014, 02:47:54 PM
It's a big deal to many because they refuse to recognize the medical aspect and look at it as delusion or mental illness.  It doesn't help in the USA that most churches push that viewpoint.


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I don't understand why anyone would even hate people that have mental illnesses. (And GD is NOT one.)  Mental illnesses are disabilites.  Hating mentally ill people makes about as much sense as hating people for having physical disabilities.  Nobody asks for mental illnesses either.

Quote from: Jill F on November 22, 2014, 02:45:10 PM
My question to the haters is "Why the big deal?"  It's really not.   People who suffer from a well-documented medical condition are getting treated for it.  BFD.   Sadly, I think that gender dysphoria is the only condition that a large segment of society will hate you for attempting to seek relief from. 

In a lot of cases it isn't about trans people. It isn't about anything to do with not understanding folks different to oneself. It's simply attacking a target who can't, or won't fight back. And that isn't just trans people. It's anyone who is different.

It's a big deal because people choose to make it a big deal. Because taking out their frustrations on someone else makes them feel better. They're the adult equivalent of high school bullies. The problem isn't with you, me, or anyone else just trying to make their way in the world. The problem is with people who have no sense of self-worth wanting to make themselves feel better by making someone else feel worse. No matter the target.

Not understanding something isn't the same thing as being negative towards it. The negativity requires a choice. A choice to adopt a certain view, and practice that view on anyone which the person in question feels fits that criteria.

How do I deal with it? I ignore it, to the best of my ability. And hope that people who are lacking something in their own lives to the extent that they would make fun of someone they know nothing about... I hope they find something to fill the hole. I have found that no matter what you do, you cannot control how others act. Only how you act. So I choose to act the way I want to be in this world, and leave others to do as they will.

In their view it's mental illness/delusion combined with sex.  That combination makes them think we are somehow a threat to children and society.  It's really ignorant but I frequent the hater websites to inoculate myself against it and have a good idea what they think.

We are part of the homosexual agenda that is out to destroy the American Family.

The only solution is to change one mind at a time.


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Quote from: LizMarie on November 22, 2014, 02:02:11 PM
Ok, Kirey, you want my opinion on what has to change for transgender people to be seen as just normal human beings and accepted? Exactly what another thread in this forum showed that most trans people do not want to do - be seen and identified as trans while living normal lives. The LGB community began to achieve acceptance when more of them were out and proud of who they were and showed the world that they were not a bunch of perverts (as claimed by the radical right wing ideologues).

How bad were those lies? Take a look at this film about homosexuality from the 1950s.

That is exactly where trans people are today. We are described the way homosexuals are presented in this film.

And for that to change will take education and positive visible role models.

Now I am not arguing that everyone should be out. I did not say that and I understand the fear and stress that goes with being out and publicly visible especially in these very backwards times in which we live. But the simple truth is that people change their perceptions based on their experiences, not on rational argument. And if you are never known as trans out there in the world, if your boyfriend never knows, if his family never knows, if your employer never knows, well, gee, that's nice for you but it allows stereotypes to perpetuate.

A few months ago, I met a loud and boisterous man who asserted that he'd never met a transwoman and if he did he could spot them from a mile away. I didn't "out" myself immediately but just let him talk. Two friends began to ask him how he would know. He recited tropes and stereotypes as "proof" that he could pick out any transwoman.

Finally, I said, "Just for the sake of argument, looking around you, which of the women at this gathering might be trans?" He looked around and laughed and said (loudly), "None!" At that point I said simply, "I am trans." Then one of my friends spoke up and said, "I am trans."

The look of sheer horror on his face was priceless and I didn't care if I changed his mind, but I added, "There are trans people around you every day and you never even know it. We're just people, like you or anyone else." Several others there smiled at me and nodded. They "got it". Whether he got it or not didn't really matter. He was so set in his bigotry that it was probably going to take a bigger shock than that to make a difference. But for others present I made a difference. Many of them were already LGBT friendly, but I and my friend outing ourselves like that reaffirmed what they knew. They will be better and more vocal allies for us going forward. They'll relay that same story to others.

It is precisely millions and millions of little events like that which will slowly alter society's view to where we become generally accepted and then not persecuted for being who we are.

And as I said above, changing the minds of everyone isn't likely to happen.

Not mean to change this thread into an argument, but just my two cents. If this were gay men in 1950, then there surely happened a change. Yes it took a while but then why wouldn't it be possible for it to change for transgenders?

I do disagree though. If nowadays people thought about transgenders the way they thought about gays in 1950, you wouldn't be able to go out anymore. Sure it brings struggles and disagreeing with it in many cases but it isn't as bad as people warning on the media to warn your kids about transgenders.

I am happy to see documentaries or negative/positive media messages about transgenders though. It isn't just that it is an interest of mine but just as how Andreja Pejic puts transgenders out there as a whole different thing, I would also love to figure out a way to make a change one day. When everyone just keeps holding on that it will never change, then it won't.

Besides, what about Emma Watson talking about equality? Sure, I don't hear anything of it now anymore but it was in the media and everyone spoke about it for quite a while. Surely it gotten people to discuss and to change some opinions. Things change, slowly but surely.

Quote from: Jill F on November 22, 2014, 03:20:18 PM
I don't understand why anyone would even hate people that have mental illnesses. (And GD is NOT one.)  Mental illnesses are disabilites.  Hating mentally ill people makes about as much sense as hating people for having physical disabilities.  Nobody asks for mental illnesses either.

And yet in Nazi Germany people with disability, mental illness or who were homosexual were also exterminated. Marginalisation (and probably) murder of those groups still exists in other countries even today. We've actually got it reasonably good by comparison. But it's still a knife edge where those benefits could be lost within an election cycle. The only difference is that the haters aren't the ones in power. 

Kirey simply put its confusion. Like can a cis male describe what a woman feels or why we would want to transition. It would be like you describing to a blind person red or a deaf person crickets. They can have a definition but not a true understanding on what it feels like. On that note quite often when people are confronted with the unknown they lash out. Take the xmen movies for example. Nothing philosophical just human nature to be defensive of the unknown. We just happen to be that unknown.

Quote from: Ms Grace on November 22, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
And yet in Nazi Germany people with disability, mental illness or who were homosexual were also exterminated. Marginalisation (and probably) murder of those groups still exists in other countries even today. We've actually got it reasonably good by comparison. But it's still a knife edge where those benefits could be lost within an election cycle. The only difference is that the haters aren't the ones in power. 

Exactly.  In my old Church, before I abandoned organized Christianity, I was talking to an older man one Sunday and mentioned something about homosexuality .  I was shocked when he said right out that they should all be killed.

Now homosexuality and transsexuality are very different, but to those people they are one in the same.


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Whom would Jesus kill?

Wait, wasn't there a commandment about that?

/snark

I know, hence why abandoned all of organized Christianity. 

To stay was a worse internal conflict than anything else.


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Quote from: Deborah on November 22, 2014, 04:03:38 PM
Exactly.  In my old Church, before I abandoned organized Christianity, I was talking to an older man one Sunday and mentioned something about homosexuality .  I was shocked when he said right out that they should all be killed.

Now homosexuality and transsexuality are very different, but to those people they are one in the same.


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That's just scary

Kirey, you say that things are not as bad as the 1950s, and that is true in some parts of the country. But here in Texas, unless you are in the large metropolitan areas, I've seen more than one occurrence of exactly what Deborah said - "kill them all!"

Former co-workers tell me I am a pervert and accuse me (in a general way) of being a pedophile, though I've never done such a thing in the 54 years before I began transition so why would I do it now?

My son has flatly asserted that his life would be easier if I had gone ahead and killed myself.

These sorts of sentiments are very common, especially in parts of the old Confederacy. Down south in too many places even still, if you are  not white, straight, fundamentalist, evangelical Protestant, then you are evil and should be destroyed. In Louisiana, a child was sent home with a note asking why the child has to be Buddhist because it causes "so many problems". In Kentucky, a fire chief, at the scene of a car accident, told his EMS squad to not help the black couple, saying on clear open radio "We don't take no n****** here!" One researcher from HRC went to the Mississippi county that listed zero gays, lesbians, bisexuals, or trans people among their population. He found them! And he found that the census taker volunteers and the mail carriers, had quietly ensured they would not be counted.

That is the environment in parts of the old South. It exists elsewhere too but not nearly as badly. And I can guarantee you that my son is teaching both of his daughters (my granddaughters) that transsexual people are perverts, abominations, sinners, evil, and deserve to die. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would make sure his eldest daughter was "ready" for me when she turned 18 and that he would be certain that she'd reject me if she sought me out. He's going to brainwash her, his hate is that bad. And his entire church supports his actions and speech against me. My daughter had to leave that church because she was so disgusted with it on transphobia and several other issues (homophobia and racism).

So even though we're maybe in better shape than gays were in the 1950s, in certain parts of the country we're only barely better.

My two experiments with transition in my early 20's were derailed in part due to the snickers and remarks made. After having spent most of my life to that point as a target of ridicule for reasons other then being trans, I opted for being normal.

Today, thanks to a very heaping helping of self esteem I know I can deal with that. Thankfully, the worse I've gotten so far is a too long of a look from a young girl. (when you are 6ft tall, thin, and smartly dressed in a land full of far shorter and far far heavier, jean wearing women you may stand out some) Looks from guys don't scare me at all these days.

More confidence, more attitude, and knowing that this IS RIGHT for me. I am not and never was some guy in a dress, though I may have felt that way once