Thank you very much for the link, I will definitely look into it. Sorry it's been a while you guys, I have been dealing with some very heavy stuff stuff with my son, mainly relating to his ADHD/Autism issues for which he has been put on zoloft, we now have him into a good mental health program which which will help with his other issues, it's a 6 week program, when that is over I will then look into a gender therapist to address this issue, right now my priority is to get and keep him mentally stable and out of any danger.

I have been hearing of parents who are/were not supportive with their children's gender issues, I would like to ask anyone in that situation to please try to see things from a parent's standpoint. My worst fear with this is my son's "safety" as here is NY every now and then you see the horror stories of gay/trans e.t.c people getting badly beaten up or beaten to death, now as a parent, which would be in your child's interest the way YOU as the parent sees it, do you support the change to make the child happy or do you not support the change to ensure your child's safety? Only when you are a parent will you ever understand this, you simply cannot understand this as a child and oh, yes, as a child you need to understand the extreme level of PERMANENT emotional distress and harm this issue places on a parent so so this is not just about the child, it's about the parents too so please go easy on your parents?

Anyway, the reason I cam back here today is to ask a question which was raised to me recently and for which I have no answer and would like to be educated on it, where does God fit into this issue? Anyone's thoughts please?

As an agnostic I would say. God is kind and caring, listen to the base message and don't listen to those who would use the bible to promote their own hate.

The council of Nicea had to produce a book that would incorporate many different sects of Christianity. Some of these sects were very war like and hateful others were more about spreading love and caring. Each sect had their own scriptures and some were included into the bible and others were not. Many of the family values people use one passage from the most militant part of the bible to promote their hate yet they still wear mixed materials and eat shellfish.

In the end the only way I can see to worship honour or serve god that is wrong is to hurt others in word or act. Find what makes you comfortable in your relationship with God, Allah or what ever your faith calls him. There is no one right way to have faith.


But this question should actually be asked in the religion section. To cut off anyone who might disagree with me and comment, you have every right to disagree with me and believe differently that is why it is faith this is just my simple view on matters.

Quote from: frustratedparent on November 24, 2014, 07:29:35 AM
As a parent, which would be in your child's interest the way YOU as the parent sees it, do you support the change to make the child happy or do you not support the change to ensure your child's safety? Only when you are a parent will you ever understand this, you simply cannot understand this as a child and oh, yes, as a child you need to understand the extreme level of PERMANENT emotional distress and harm this issue places on a parent so so this is not just about the child, it's about the parents too so please go easy on your parents?

I may be able to respond to this, as can others, as I'm transgender, but also a parent. My child isn't transgender that I'm aware of (...she practically lives off of all things pink). But, if one day she came to me and said that she was, I would tell my child that it's ok. Reassure them that you support them and love them no matter what, then, I'd do exactly what the rest of us who are transgender do, which is I would take her to a therapist specializing in gender issues A.S.A.P.

Yes, there are horror stories of murder and beatings ... but to be honest? Suicidal issues and mental issues that develop as a result of not dealing with being transgender far outweigh the chance of someone else harming your kid. On top of that, the younger someone is, typically, the better the results of transition if that's needed at all.  As for your distress, it won't be permanent, though it seems like it will be now. You can also speak with your child's therapist or one independently if you need to. I don't know how the autism plays into everything, though.

As they say, it gets better, and not just for the LGBT person. You know. You're scared, because you love your child. But you're also doing what you need to insure they have a fulfilling life, and the fact that you're here at all means you get that that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing for everyone. Eventually you'll worry less. With time, and help, this will be less scary to you. And, you may even take them to a therapist and find that transition isn't needed. In any event, fighting your child instead of helping them on this is in the long run, going to do more harm than good. Also, should it turn out that your child is transgender, it can be much more difficult to transition later in life like many of us are doing than it is in your teens, and all the time between regardless of accomplishments or failures ... it all just feels like wasted time. You want your child to live. There's a lot more to life than just survival.

Quote from: frustratedparent on November 24, 2014, 07:29:35 AM
Anyway, the reason I cam back here today is to ask a question which was raised to me recently and for which I have no answer and would like to be educated on it, where does God fit into this issue? Anyone's thoughts please?

My short answer is, that is between your child and God.

For yourself, frankly it's also between you and God. If you claim to be a christian, and you still feel that being transgender is somehow a sin, remember this, and I apologize for my use of language in some of this... but it, I think, will help get the point across:

When a man says after an attractive woman walks by, and again, I apologize for my language, but I hear this all the time from men, "How can any man be gay when a 'hot piece of ass' like that is walking around?" Guess what? That great upstanding typical straight christian manly man? He just committed a sin. Actually two sins. Adultery (the bible is very specific that even thinking about a woman who you are not married to in a sexual way is adultery, doubly so if that attractive woman also happens to be married) and hypocrisy, in the form of pointing at gay people and screaming sinner while he himself is guilty of just as equal a sin. Jesus is quoted as saying that one shouldn't worry about another's splinter when they themselves have a plank in their eye.

As for the basis of where God fits in this? The closest the bible comes to discussing trans people, is it says that men shouldn't dress like women. It's very vague. But the bible was written before modern medicine, and there is more and more evidence that transgender people may actually be born transgender, and it's not vague comments like "it's genetic". Brain scans. Postmortem autopsy examination of brains. Heck, there's even some scientists that point to finger tip length ratios which hint at being exposed to not enough testosterone or estrogen before birth.

Simply put? If your child is transgender, God made them this way. If your son is actually your daughter ... isn't it now sinful for them to be dressing like a boy? Isn't it lying (also a sin) if they present themselves as a boy?

Quote from: Amy The Bookworm on November 24, 2014, 09:17:06 AM

Adultery (the bible is very specific that even thinking about a woman who you are not married to in a sexual way is adultery

Simply put? If your child is transgender, God made them this way. If your son is actually your daughter ... isn't it now sinful for them to be dressing like a boy? Isn't it lying (also a sin) if they present themselves as a boy?

All very good points, gives me a lot to think about, thank you very much!

This is very first time I have ever heard about "Adultery (the bible is very specific that even thinking about a woman who you are not married to in a sexual way is adultery", just curious, can you pinpoint exactly where this is mentioned the bible please?

Also, not understanding the 2nd quote, are you saying it's a sin for a person to dress as the opposite gender, please clarify?

Quote from: frustratedparent on November 24, 2014, 11:02:44 AM
All very good points, gives me a lot to think about, thank you very much!

This is very first time I have ever heard about "Adultery (the bible is very specific that even thinking about a woman who you are not married to in a sexual way is adultery", just curious, can you pinpoint exactly where this is mentioned the bible please?

Also, not understanding the 2nd quote, are you saying it's a sin for a person to dress as the opposite gender, please clarify?

Sure! I can tell you right where it says that!

"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

- Matthew 5:28


"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."

-John 8:4-11 (Jesus, directly to people wanting to stone a woman to death for the crime of adultery ... I'd also like to note, Jesus did not cast a stone at her, either.)


"Though shall not commit adultery."

-Exodus 20:14 (God)


The bible is written so that it is impossible to avoid sin in anyone's life. That's the point Christ himself was making when he told the crowd to stone her to death ... if they were perfect themselves. Even non Christians, even atheists, admit that no one is perfect.

I'm saying that the bible says that wearing mixed cloth, like polyester and eating shell fish is a sin. Just about everything is sinful in the bible. The people who are going to be worried that your child is sinning because they are transgender (which is a recognized medical condition making it no less sinful than being intersex or wearing eye glasses, or taking medication in order to lower blood pressure) aren't looking at the whole issue and aren't looking hard enough at their own lives. I'm willing to bet someone somewhere can find a line in the bible that would make transgender tendencies to be sinful, but then, you could argue that enjoying a jelly doughnut is a sin since gluttony is a sin, and you could argue that being a typical teenage girl fawning over a rock star is a sin since that's sometimes interpreted as idol worship. There are entire Christan sects formed over the idea from the bible that all medical and psychiatric intervention from vaccinations to open heart surgery to hospitalization for mental illness and on and on, should be avoided in favor of prayer because some minor passages hint that medical help is witch craft. Meteorology in the bible is a sin, because predicting the weather is according to the bible, again, witch craft.

The bible does have good advice in it, and is a strong source of faith and strength for many people (including many transgender people and gay, lesbian and bisexual people, as well as meteorologists ... let's not even start about politicians!). But, there comes a point where one has to put down the book and live their life to the best of their ability (God helps those who help themselves). Every trans person here, both those who have yet to even see a therapist and those who have long since transitioned will tell you that life before dealing with being transgender was agony. If your child is transgender, they are suffering, and even if after seeing a knowledgeable therapist it's determined they aren't, they will still need your help. You need to do what is best for your child.

Trying to get them to deny or suppress it will in the long term cause far more psychiatric issues and harm than letting them talk to a therapist to figure out what (if anything) they need to do to deal with it.

After re-reading my post, I'd also like to add, that I don't mean to come across as harsh. I feel for you greatly, which is why I've been writing and re-editing this post over and over for about an hour now. While I'm not autistic, I do know what your child is going through as far as gender issues, as I have been there. And by that, I mean I tried to kill myself when I was 14 for trans issues and other reasons, and I wound up in a hospital for over a month. I'm 33 years old and am only now truly dealing with this in my own life. I'm also a parent, and I know how scary it is when anything is causing a parents child to suffer, and I know that it is made far worse when it is something that you know many people around you won't understand. I wish I could talk to you in person, not to discuss any of the above, as in the end this is a family matter between you, your child, and their doctors. Everyone here, your clergy, family, everyone can give you advice or say what they think. In the end, this is your decision and I have no real right to tell you what to do when this is your child. On top of all that, your child tried to kill their self twice in one day. I know as a parent, that would bring my entire life to a stand still.

It's also clear to me that you're being open minded, as you wouldn't be posting here if you weren't.

What, more than anything I would like to do is to let you know that while I'm sure it feels like you are, you're not alone, and you and your family will get through this.

First let me say many thanks for taking the time and effort to show me the bible quotes, that will definitely come in very handy for me in the future. Also all of your advice and insights are greatly welcomed and heeded and will help me as I go along [thanks!]. Yes my son's autism [depression/anxiety] issues are a whole different world as his main issues are 'verbalizing, thoughts racing and out of control, panic attacks', these are what we need to address and stabilize first then we will seek out a qualified gender therapist and see where that leads, all of this will take time of course but I will report back here as I go along.