hello

i'm a 25 yo mtf transgender woman in the uk and i've been on hrt (or estrogen to be exact) for a little over a month.

i'm on patches (not sure if mentions of the brand or dosage is allowed) but i'm on the highest dosage for this patch and i've not been supplied an AA (anti-androgen to go with the estrogen)

the only physical/emotional changes i've experienced are softening/smoother skin all round and nothing else, i don't look feminine at all. my body & face is the same and absolute zero on emotion. i haven't been able to cry, i just feel angry all the time.

i have a few questions that i'd like to ask.

1) is anyone here on patches for their estrogen? if so,
2) how long did it take for your breast grow? facial feminization? muscle mass to go down?
3) any tips in coping with dysphoria/anxiety/depression? i've been feeling a lot of dysphoria these past couple weeks and i don't know what to do or who to speak to.
4) should i speak to my GP? gender therapist? ring a depression helpline?

the problem is, i don't think any of them will help. i feel like starting hrt will be in vain because ultimately i will never be female

HRT takes a while.

You are young and depending on genetics should do well.

If the doctor supplied E only then please give them a call and ask if an AA can be supplied.

You should talk to a gender therapist ASAP.

1. I was before switching to shots and the big factor is the absorption rate and dosage that your body is actually getting. As Cynthia mentioned HRT takes awhile. I didn't notice real growth tell the around 8 weeks in on HRT.
2. In my case muscle mass went down quickly, but other than sensation the breasts didn't grow during the almost 6 weeks on the patches. It's hard to tell with my face, but between that and the hair removal the skin was much softer and smoother on it.
3. Therapist is the best way.
4. Depends on how bad the depression is, but a therapist and your GP would be ones that need to know.

Quote from: transinme on November 28, 2014, 02:06:09 PM
hello

i'm a 25 yo mtf transgender woman in the uk and i've been on hrt (or estrogen to be exact) for a little over a month.

i have a few questions that i'd like to ask.

1) is anyone here on patches for their estrogen? if so,
2) how long did it take for your breast grow? facial feminization? muscle mass to go down?
3) any tips in coping with dysphoria/anxiety/depression? i've been feeling a lot of dysphoria these past couple weeks and i don't know what to do or who to speak to.
4) should i speak to my GP? gender therapist? ring a depression helpline?

the problem is, i don't think any of them will help. i feel like starting hrt will be in vain because ultimately i will never be female

Hello

Firstly, you've been on HRT for only a month, so relax.  If you're doing it right the changes will be subtle.

I use patches.  For many of us they are healthier as the estrogen is processed only once by the liver, whereas oral estrogen is processed twice.  I find it quite convenient. 

Is there any stated reason why you were not given an AA?  I would query this, since if you've got to the point of being prescribed estrogen,  your endocrinologist should at least do something about androgen production.  Don't panic; just try make a follow-up appointment.

Breast growth, facial changes and muscle mass reduction are highly variable.  By month 2 you should notice some breast changes.  Facial changes could take as long as 9-12 months, and muscle mass could be from 4-6 months.  But these are ballpark figures and again, don't panic. 

I understand and feel for you in terms of your dysphoria and depression - when you're at the beginning of the journey it feels so hard to escape at times.  Being transgender is not for sissies ( ) and I would encourage you to find ways to accept that the process takes time, and that you'll need to deal with this, both internally, and externally as you interact with your world.  I would also ask you to think about how you could try to live with grace, humour and happiness.  You may have to work on these,  but it's so much nicer if, on your journey, you notice the flowers on the side of the road instead of the beer cans and wire fencing.

Also try to accept that there will be ups and downs. It's not just part of our journey; it's also part of being a woman!

Above all, have faith.  Remember that the chemicals are a help, but they are not of themselves going to turn you into a woman.  To some extent you need to liberate your internal woman, slowly, gently.  She's already there, but she may take time to emerge. And have faith in yourself.  The old maxim "If you believe that something is impossible or you believe that something is possible, you are probably right" applies here.  Have faith.  Believe in yourself as a woman.  Roll with the punches.  Give things time. 

Hope some of this helps.

Hugs
Julia

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on November 28, 2014, 02:36:37 PM
HRT takes a while.

You are young and depending on genetics should do well.

If the doctor supplied E only then please give them a call and ask if an AA can be supplied.

You should talk to a gender therapist ASAP.

i feel like a dinosaur at 25 ugghh lol but thanks. i've sent a letter to the doctor who prescribed me my hrt, a request for a AA but yet to receive a reply back. about my depression, i'm planning to speak to my GP at a local surgery.

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on November 28, 2014, 04:14:13 PM
Hello

Firstly, you've been on HRT for only a month, so relax.  If you're doing it right the changes will be subtle.

I use patches.  For many of us they are healthier as the estrogen is processed only once by the liver, whereas oral estrogen is processed twice.  I find it quite convenient. 

Is there any stated reason why you were not given an AA?  I would query this, since if you've got to the point of being prescribed estrogen,  your endocrinologist should at least do something about androgen production.  Don't panic; just try make a follow-up appointment.

Breast growth, facial changes and muscle mass reduction are highly variable.  By month 2 you should notice some breast changes.  Facial changes could take as long as 9-12 months, and muscle mass could be from 4-6 months.  But these are ballpark figures and again, don't panic. 

I understand and feel for you in terms of your dysphoria and depression - when you're at the beginning of the journey it feels so hard to escape at times.  Being transgender is not for sissies ( ) and I would encourage you to find ways to accept that the process takes time, and that you'll need to deal with this, both internally, and externally as you interact with your world.  I would also ask you to think about how you could try to live with grace, humour and happiness.  You may have to work on these,  but it's so much nicer if, on your journey, you notice the flowers on the side of the road instead of the beer cans and wire fencing.

Also try to accept that there will be ups and downs. It's not just part of our journey; it's also part of being a woman!

Above all, have faith.  Remember that the chemicals are a help, but they are not of themselves going to turn you into a woman.  To some extent you need to liberate your internal woman, slowly, gently.  She's already there, but she may take time to emerge. And have faith in yourself.  The old maxim "If you believe that something is impossible or you believe that something is possible, you are probably right" applies here.  Have faith.  Believe in yourself as a woman.  Roll with the punches.  Give things time. 

Hope some of this helps.

Hugs
Julia

hi ya, yeah i mis-typed. i meant to say that i was a little over 2 months on hrt (or estrogen patches to be precise). the doctor at the gender clinic who green lit my hrt has yet to respond to my letter, been waiting over a week, almost 2 weeks now.

to be fair i have sent quite a few letters to him and he basically gives me the same answers each time. it's frustrating because i feel that if i was precribed an AA, my transition would move a lot quicker and i wouldn't have much to complain about.

it'll be 3 months on hrt for me end of next week, and all the effects i've experienced so far is just softening of the skin all over my body and face and skin dryness. there was earlier last month i was getting very unwell, i had never-ending  migraines, sore achy muscles, joints etc... so there was a week where i had stopped taking my patches and that was a big mistake because couple weeks ago my face got all oily/acne came back & what facial. i felt better but i can't help but feel that i've set myself back all the way to 0 in my transition.

i get so depressed whenever i watch other trans girls/women feminise really quickly within a couple months, weeks even. i feel happy for them but it makes me feel crappy.. ><

thanks for info and kind words, i know that i have to be patient but it's really difficult when i've waited so long for this moment.

Quote from: Mariah2014 on November 28, 2014, 02:48:06 PM
1. I was before switching to shots and the big factor is the absorption rate and dosage that your body is actually getting. As Cynthia mentioned HRT takes awhile. I didn't notice real growth tell the around 8 weeks in on HRT.
2. In my case muscle mass went down quickly, but other than sensation the breasts didn't grow during the almost 6 weeks on the patches. It's hard to tell with my face, but between that and the hair removal the skin was much softer and smoother on it.
3. Therapist is the best way.
4. Depends on how bad the depression is, but a therapist and your GP would be ones that need to know.

you got within 6 weeks you got breast development within 6 weeks? that's amazing i have nothing at almost 3 months lol yeah i plan on seeing my GP soon.

hope i replied to everyone, thanks again for responding to my post, i appreciate it a lot.

Quote from: transinme on December 10, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
i feel like a dinosaur at 25 ugghh lol but thanks. i've sent a letter to the doctor who prescribed me my hrt, a request for a AA but yet to receive a reply back. about my depression, i'm planning to speak to my GP at a local surgery.

hi ya, yeah i mis-typed. i meant to say that i was a little over 2 months on hrt (or estrogen patches to be precise). the doctor at the gender clinic who green lit my hrt has yet to respond to my letter, been waiting over a week, almost 2 weeks now.

to be fair i have sent quite a few letters to him and he basically gives me the same answers each time. it's frustrating because i feel that if i was precribed an AA, my transition would move a lot quicker and i wouldn't have much to complain about.

it'll be 3 months on hrt for me end of next week, and all the effects i've experienced so far is just softening of the skin all over my body and face and skin dryness. there was earlier last month i was getting very unwell, i had never-ending  migraines, sore achy muscles, joints etc... so there was a week where i had stopped taking my patches and that was a big mistake because couple weeks ago my face got all oily/acne came back & what facial. i felt better but i can't help but feel that i've set myself back all the way to 0 in my transition.

i get so depressed whenever i watch other trans girls/women feminise really quickly within a couple months, weeks even. i feel happy for them but it makes me feel crappy.. ><

thanks for info and kind words, i know that i have to be patient but it's really difficult when i've waited so long for this moment.

you got within 6 weeks you got breast development within 6 weeks? that's amazing i have nothing at almost 3 months lol yeah i plan on seeing my GP soon.

hope i replied to everyone, thanks again for responding to my post, i appreciate it a lot.

my being inter-sexed to an extent may be why things started quickly and why we may be even lowering the days se that I started shots on too. It would s also the reason the rose the Endo wanted to get to of spiro wad never needed. What he will lower than t to get wouldn't have a clue since the dose is as low as it is in the first place.
Mariah


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: transinme on December 10, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
i feel like a dinosaur at 25 ugghh lol but thanks. i've sent a letter to the doctor who prescribed me my hrt, a request for a AA but yet to receive a reply back. about my depression, i'm planning to speak to my GP at a local surgery.

hi ya, yeah i mis-typed. i meant to say that i was a little over 2 months on hrt (or estrogen patches to be precise). the doctor at the gender clinic who green lit my hrt has yet to respond to my letter, been waiting over a week, almost 2 weeks now.

to be fair i have sent quite a few letters to him and he basically gives me the same answers each time. it's frustrating because i feel that if i was precribed an AA, my transition would move a lot quicker and i wouldn't have much to complain about.

it'll be 3 months on hrt for me end of next week, and all the effects i've experienced so far is just softening of the skin all over my body and face and skin dryness. there was earlier last month i was getting very unwell, i had never-ending  migraines, sore achy muscles, joints etc... so there was a week where i had stopped taking my patches and that was a big mistake because couple weeks ago my face got all oily/acne came back & what facial. i felt better but i can't help but feel that i've set myself back all the way to 0 in my transition.

i get so depressed whenever i watch other trans girls/women feminise really quickly within a couple months, weeks even. i feel happy for them but it makes me feel crappy.. ><

thanks for info and kind words, i know that i have to be patient but it's really difficult when i've waited so long for this moment.

you got within 6 weeks you got breast development within 6 weeks? that's amazing i have nothing at almost 3 months lol yeah i plan on seeing my GP soon.

hope i replied to everyone, thanks again for responding to my post, i appreciate it a lot.

Your allowed to post what your medication is, just not the doses of em.
From what I know of patches, some also have a progestin (synthetic progesterone), but I don't know if any ever have anti androgens in em, but if your doctor keeps refusing to prescribe an AA tell him or her (fib, lie), that you are thinking of buying an AA online n you want him or her to monitor your T levels, but seriously don't self medicate with AAs they can get nasty real quick, always tell your doctor about any Med brought online, it's how I do it n it made my doctor reconsider, not prescribing something I ask for.

Quote from: Mariah2014 on December 12, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
my being inter-sexed to an extent may be why things started quickly and why we may be even lowering the days se that I started shots on too. It would s also the reason the rose the Endo wanted to get to of spiro wad never needed. What he will lower than t to get wouldn't have a clue since the dose is as low as it is in the first place.
Mariah


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

but that's still good though! and to be honest, if my upper body muscle mass could switch from male pattern to female pattern, i'll be good even if i didn't have breast and i really want my lower body to fill out more than anything, it'll help off set the broadness of my shoulders. it sucks that it takes so long... 

Quote from: Clhoe G on December 12, 2014, 10:20:07 AM
Your allowed to post what your medication is, just not the doses of em.
From what I know of patches, some also have a progestin (synthetic progesterone), but I don't know if any ever have anti androgens in em, but if your doctor keeps refusing to prescribe an AA tell him or her (fib, lie), that you are thinking of buying an AA online n you want him or her to monitor your T levels, but seriously don't self medicate with AAs they can get nasty real quick, always tell your doctor about any Med brought online, it's how I do it n it made my doctor reconsider, not prescribing something I ask for.

hi there,

in that case the estrogen patches i'm taking are  Estradot, i'm on the highest dosage that you can get for this brand.

i've still not got a reply from the letter i've sent, it's been 3 weeks almost since i've sent my letter to him...maybe he's on holiday or something idk..i'll see how it goes

i'm looking online where to buy AA's but i'm not having any luck, do you or anyone know of a reliable site to buy anti-androgen tablets?

It seems like it's a UK thing where the doctors do E only and no AAs.

Quote from: ImagineKate on December 15, 2014, 08:12:17 AM
It seems like it's a UK thing where the doctors do E only and no AAs.

Not true, but they do prefer to put patients on E only first before deciding whether to add T blockers later.

Well, you skipped a couple steps regarding HRT, but this is easily fixed. You need to link up with a doctor and mental health professional to get help you get through this. There will come times when you need to talk to someone skilled in dealing with GID. Once you link up with your doctor they will refer you to an endocrinologist, the people who measure your hormone levels and make sure that the AA's and E aren't shutting your liver down. Your GP should be able to prescribe a good AA like Spironolactone without a letter of approval from a psychiatrist or anything. Please link up with a medical professional though, I know people that have litterally destroyed their livers and taken years off their lives by self-medicating, don't do it.

*edit*
Oops, your already being seen at a clinic lol. But yeah, if they can't get the led out of their buts then go to a GP, they should be able to prescribe AA's no problem.

Quote from: Minervham on December 16, 2014, 05:54:39 AM
Well, you skipped a couple steps regarding HRT, but this is easily fixed. You need to link up with a doctor and mental health professional to get help you get through this. There will come times when you need to talk to someone skilled in dealing with GID. Once you link up with your doctor they will refer you to an endocrinologist, the people who measure your hormone levels and make sure that the AA's and E aren't shutting your liver down. Your GP should be able to prescribe a good AA like Spironolactone without a letter of approval from a psychiatrist or anything. Please link up with a medical professional though, I know people that have litterally destroyed their livers and taken years off their lives by self-medicating, don't do it.

*edit*
Oops, your already being seen at a clinic lol. But yeah, if they can't get the led out of their buts then go to a GP, they should be able to prescribe AA's no problem.

All great advice, but the OP is in UK and is most likely under NHS pathway, so unfortunately has to follow their directions unless they go private.

Quote from: Minervham on December 16, 2014, 05:54:39 AM
Well, you skipped a couple steps regarding HRT, but this is easily fixed. You need to link up with a doctor and mental health professional to get help you get through this. There will come times when you need to talk to someone skilled in dealing with GID. Once you link up with your doctor they will refer you to an endocrinologist, the people who measure your hormone levels and make sure that the AA's and E aren't shutting your liver down. Your GP should be able to prescribe a good AA like Spironolactone without a letter of approval from a psychiatrist or anything. Please link up with a medical professional though, I know people that have litterally destroyed their livers and taken years off their lives by self-medicating, don't do it.

*edit*
Oops, your already being seen at a clinic lol. But yeah, if they can't get the led out of their buts then go to a GP, they should be able to prescribe AA's no problem.

hiya , i'll see what i can do when i see my GP but i'm thinking that i may need to get permission from the gender doctor. if that turns out to be the case then that sucks... do you know where i could buy spiro?

Quote from: Leila on December 16, 2014, 06:10:37 AM
All great advice, but the OP is in UK and is most likely under NHS pathway, so unfortunately has to follow their directions unless they go private.

yeah, i'm based in UK but i see therapists/doctors on private clinics not NHS. i still not got a reply letter from my gender doctor from the private clinic, i'm guessing they're on holiday. i'll wait and see if i can get an answer early next year but in the meantime i want to see if there's anyway i could get an AA on my own. even to be on the lowest dosage would be a massive help.

It's not at all unusual to start HRT on estrogen only, after 3 - 6 months, your levels will be checked and the endo will decide if an AA is really needed for you. The thing is, the majority of people won't actually need an AA as estrogen is able to suppress the T sufficiently - the problem is that many people demand them on the basis that others have them.

Do you know what your E and T levels are? Without those numbers, and some other numbers, you really can't say whether an AA is needed. If your T is already suppressed, taking an AA will do nothing except probably reward you with side effects..

Quote from: transinme on December 16, 2014, 02:50:10 PM
hiya , i'll see what i can do when i see my GP but i'm thinking that i may need to get permission from the gender doctor. if that turns out to be the case then that sucks... do you know where i could buy spiro?

yeah, i'm based in UK but i see therapists/doctors on private clinics not NHS. i still not got a reply letter from my gender doctor from the private clinic, i'm guessing they're on holiday. i'll wait and see if i can get an answer early next year but in the meantime i want to see if there's anyway i could get an AA on my own. even to be on the lowest dosage would be a massive help.

Spironolactone can be very very dangerous. It makes your body soak up potassium like a sponge, which can be very harmful to your health. It also lowers your blood pressure, so you need to get cleared by a doctor for sure before taking this.

*mod edit for dosage

Quote from: transinme on December 16, 2014, 02:50:10 PM
yeah, i'm based in UK but i see therapists/doctors on private clinics not NHS. i still not got a reply letter from my gender doctor from the private clinic, i'm guessing they're on holiday. i'll wait and see if i can get an answer early next year but in the meantime i want to see if there's anyway i could get an AA on my own. even to be on the lowest dosage would be a massive help.

If you are already under the care of a private gender clinic in the UK, then they are probably most likely operating under shared care in conjunction with your local GP and you are also probably getting blood tests done through them or via your local GP. It would be unwise to go against the current direction of your private gender clinician and self medicate with anti-androgens such as spironolactone or cyproterone acetate. Any such action without their knowledge would skew any results from future blood tests that they are using as a basis for your own tailored regimen. It could also jeopardise any future consultations with them as well if they found out you were self medicating without their knowledge.

Should you be recommended for something to help with the estradiol in your HRT regimen, then in the UK you are most likely to get injections of LnRH antagonists such as decaptyl or goserelin. These are T blockers and act at source and much differently from anti-androgens such as spironolactone or cyproterone acetate in reducing your T footprint. What I will also add is that if you are approved for T-Blockers and you are following shared care with your local GP, you may find that your local GP may refuse to administer you the T-Blockers on account of the apparent high cost to your local GP. This should not be the case as the cost will be borne out by your area CCG (Clinical commissioning group). If you are in such a situation then you may have to try convince the practice manager otherwise or seek another GP practice.

Quote from: kelly_aus on December 16, 2014, 03:07:10 PM
It's not at all unusual to start HRT on estrogen only, after 3 - 6 months, your levels will be checked and the endo will decide if an AA is really needed for you. The thing is, the majority of people won't actually need an AA as estrogen is able to suppress the T sufficiently - the problem is that many people demand them on the basis that others have them.

Do you know what your E and T levels are? Without those numbers, and some other numbers, you really can't say whether an AA is needed. If your T is already suppressed, taking an AA will do nothing except probably reward you with side effects..

Quote from: Minervham on December 16, 2014, 03:13:35 PM
Spironolactone can be very very dangerous. It makes your body soak up potassium like a sponge, which can be very harmful to your health. It also lowers your blood pressure, so you need to get cleared by a doctor for sure before taking this.

*mod edit for dosage

Quote from: Leila on December 17, 2014, 02:49:38 AM
If you are already under the care of a private gender clinic in the UK, then they are probably most likely operating under shared care in conjunction with your local GP and you are also probably getting blood tests done through them or via your local GP. It would be unwise to go against the current direction of your private gender clinician and self medicate with anti-androgens such as spironolactone or cyproterone acetate. Any such action without their knowledge would skew any results from future blood tests that they are using as a basis for your own tailored regimen. It could also jeopardise any future consultations with them as well if they found out you were self medicating without their knowledge.

Should you be recommended for something to help with the estradiol in your HRT regimen, then in the UK you are most likely to get injections of LnRH antagonists such as decaptyl or goserelin. These are T blockers and act at source and much differently from anti-androgens such as spironolactone or cyproterone acetate in reducing your T footprint. What I will also add is that if you are approved for T-Blockers and you are following shared care with your local GP, you may find that your local GP may refuse to administer you the T-Blockers on account of the apparent high cost to your local GP. This should not be the case as the cost will be borne out by your area CCG (Clinical commissioning group). If you are in such a situation then you may have to try convince the practice manager otherwise or seek another GP practice.

actually you all have made good points. i think i'll hold off and wait for now. it's just that i am so anxious to see results, especially when i've seen/heard so many stories of other girls getting results so early in their transition, i just think why isn't it working for me...but you're right, maybe i'm being too hasty. it's so hard having to wait everyday just to be yourself...i hate my existence right now    but thank you all for responding, means alot

Quote from: transinme on December 17, 2014, 06:10:27 AM
actually you all have made good points. i think i'll hold off and wait for now. it's just that i am so anxious to see results, especially when i've seen/heard so many stories of other girls getting results so early in their transition, i just think why isn't it working for me...but you're right, maybe i'm being too hasty. it's so hard having to wait everyday just to be yourself...i hate my existence right now    but thank you all for responding, means alot

I'll be honest, unless I saw these results happening so early with my own eyes, I don't believe it..

The good thing about spiro is that I am taking it for the on label use anyway, I have high blood pressure and it's part of my medication regimen for that now. But your doc will recommend the proper medicine and dosage.