After being informed several ex-forum members had started up a competing website with private area for talking about this website, I did a quick search of the site and a sql query on the forums database to see if it was being advertised via this web site, something that is clearly prohibited in the Terms of Service.

I found the following members had sent messages containing the url via forum pm to other members.

Jess42, Helen2010 (Aisla), JulieBlair, Pikachu, Mark3, and Edge.

This is clearly prohibited by TOS 1.

Quote1. We do not allow the advertising of other web sites or chats on Susan's Place, with the exception of the Susan's Place Transgender Web Directory which is listed on the main page of this site. This prohibition includes the chat, forums, and the wiki.

There are seven exceptions:

• Links listed added by the chat staff to the Transgender Bot (TGBot) in our chat
  
• Users on the chat may give other users links to their photographs and personal websites.
  
• Links to the source of news stories posted In the News forum which is located under the News and Information section of the forum
  
• Members with a post rank of "family" or higher may post links to off site information provided that the information does not otherwise violate the Terms of Service. This is a privilege that will be revoked if abused.
  
• You may link to your personal web site in your forum profile, and forum signature which is shown at the bottom of your forum posts.
  
• Links to the event web site for more information in the Calendar of events.
  
• Site staff may at their discretion provide links to other web sites, in order to provide informational resources to Susan's Place users, this is a privilege I feel that they have earned. If you are interested in this ability volunteer for the Chat, Forums, Links, or Wiki.

This is done for several reasons the major one being spam prevention. It also helps us to ensure that the sites Susan's Place links are family friendly. To recommend sites for inclusion in the links area, simply find the category that the link best fits, and click the 'Add Link' text at the top of the page. You do not have to be the owner of the web site to submit it for listing.

Their sharing of this link is not covered by any of the exemptions.

Due to this abuse of the Terms of Service, that web site will no longer accepted if it is submitted to the links section of this site.

The search of the database was conducted under the auspices of Privacy Policy section of the TOS.

QuoteAll communications via this web site are logged. Logs and stored communications can be accessed when required for administrative purposes, in order to save a life, to report a crime to law enforcement, or if we receive get a legally binding subpoena; otherwise this site does not sell or provide access to your personal information to third parties. Stored communications includes the public and private messages sent via the Chat, Forums, and web site. Logs are not kept for a fixed period, and can be purged or removed at any time. Stored private communications on the forums are removed when the member deletes them.

This marks the only the third time in Susan's 19 year history that I have had to access the private message database on the forums. Only messages specifically containing the url to the site in question were accessed. I did not look up the recipients of any of these messages.

The spam policy requires bans ranging from 120-365 days for spamming incidents, and so I have placed bans on each of these individuals for 180 days which is the normal ban duration.

Several of the banned individuals were donators or subscribers however this does not excuse their actions. I recommend each one to check their paypal transaction records to ensure that they cancel their automatic payment profiles to the site, we are not responsible if they fail to do so.

I hate that it has come to this, but I will not tolerate someone from a competing site advertising it on this web site; it doesn't matter if it was done in public or private. Several of messages indicated that the member knew that what they were doing was not acceptable.

I don't begrudge the right of members to establish their own websites, but since I won't be advertising my site on theirs, I expect the same courtesy on mine.

You are free to be a member of as many sites as you like, and I will never penalize any user for doing so.

These users were only penalized for advertising other sites in violation of the rules of this web site.

It seems this image is making the rounds on facebook.



This is my reply.

1. I didn't read the member's private messages, I searched for a specific url in in an entire database that includes profiles, forum topics, forum posts, and private messages. The search returned results for the url in several private messages.

2. The PM's were only opened once the url was found to verify the sender actually was the person who sent the link and not simply quoting someone elses message.

3. Accessing private messages 3 times in 20 years is hardly excessive.

4. Best members highly debatable. Those are the members who follow the rules, and do not cause disruptions. Members who get along well with others.

5. Cold hearted bitch, when someone breaks the rules of the site, yes I can be somewhat ruthless.

6. Advertising other web sites was a clearly prohibited action.

7. The members agreed to the Terms of Service and were bound by it's obligations.

8. The members in question broke their word by breaking the TOS.

9. The Bans were the appropriate action under the standard policy governing advertising other websites in violation of the tos.

10. If the members in question want to contact me to discuss their bans I am open to doing so.

This is the response of the creator of the image...

QuoteYou're very lucky tonight Susan, I'm capable of making and speading  some very negative vividly detailed graphics, with much more colorful text... I'm refraining from that due to some of my special friends here who won't understand, but that could change.?

Banning us will only turn others against you, I may be a nobody, but there are some in our group that most of your board look up to and love, and I doubt this will sit well with them...

You POS TOS rules stink, only those frightened of standing up to you praise them, you're too smart not to know that..

If you think none of us can contact Susan's Place members without PMs or being members, thats just silly, we all have friends of friends of friends we can contact through.. The tighter you try and make your grip, the more that will slide through your fingers..

I feel so let down... I really thought you had a special place, until a few weeks ago..

I won't bore you with anything further, I'm sure you have work to do, buying souls....

I will let his response stand for him.

If anyone agrees with what he has to say on the matter by all means please follow him to other web sites. I do not want people here who do not want to be here. As for his Photoshop abilities, anything he can do I will simply post here on the site for all to see. So feel free to have at me. I think he will find he over estimated his abilities.

I value each and every member of this site, and I hate that bans are sometimes necessary, but they are; and I do not shirk that responsibility when they are required.

you've got every right to protect your property  , one  of the main tenants of the US Constitution. no matter what you do in life  your subject to rules.

OMG, some people's kids...just goes to prove that immaturity has no age limits.

highschool never ends, just the number indicating their age changes, but they are still the same people.   magically turning 18, or 19, or whatever age, doesnt magically make someone more mature.  sad to see people acting in this manner.

you had every right to protect your site.  im sure if you were employed at wal-mart for example, and got a 2nd job at target and tried to recruit employees.  you would be out of a job.

being a member of multiple sites i dont think is quite a bad thing.  but trying to take members from other sites, to your own is.
people will come and go though. and if such people act in this manner, they are merely proving they dont want to be members of this community to begin with, so their ban should be welcomed.

No one will ever be penalized for being members of other sites. That's why I didn't even look to see who the messages was sent to, I didn't need to know and I didn't care. The only people who broke the rules were the ones advertising on my site without permission.

Thanks for pointing this out, Susan. It's a mistake I could easily have made - helpfully sending a URL to a friend who asked for it. Might not hurt to mention PMs specifically in the TOS since before reading your message I might not have thought that sending a PM would be considered advertising, though it makes sense now that I think about it.

Hugs, Susan, 'cause I think you need and deserve it, and hugs for persevering. A lesser person would have thrown up their hands and shut down. I have no problem with your rules. We have people here in a delicate state and they need that kind of support for a while. Sometimes I'm one of them. I used to manage a psychiatric facility and am used to watching how I interact with people and I still fail from time to time. You can never know what people will resent. Some people just resent any rules at all.

Quote from: Susan on November 28, 2014, 10:45:34 PM
No one will ever be penalized for being members of other sites. That's why I didn't even look to see who the messages was sent to, I didn't need to know and I didn't care. The only people who broke the rules were the ones advertising on my site without permission.

Also sending a pm to Susan asking for a permission would have been so hard. Sigh

Quote from: Susan on November 28, 2014, 09:33:22 PM
It seems this image is making the rounds on facebook.

Plus the blatant ALL CAPS BANNING violation.    <running away>

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 29, 2014, 07:05:29 AM
Thanks for pointing this out, Susan. It's a mistake I could easily have made - helpfully sending a URL to a friend who asked for it. Might not hurt to mention PMs specifically in the TOS since before reading your message I might not have thought that sending a PM would be considered advertising, though it makes sense now that I think about it.

QuoteThis prohibition includes the chat, forums, and the wiki.

The message functionality is part of the forums.

There's a difference in sending a link to help a friend, and posting Telling people to be quiet about it, or saying Oh Yes I did when giving the link etc, or telling someone how much nicer they found the people over there than here etc.  Those indicated the person knew they were violating the terms of service, or were advertising.

Pretty much the guidelines have to be if it's not acceptable in the public area, it's not acceptable in private. A good example of this policy is that we have removed private messaging ability from people for indicating in a public post that they intended using it to discuss self medication etc. You are always permitted to contact me in private to discuss issues with the site policies, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; and you are free to discuss those type topics with others.

At no point do I ever just randomly browse anyone's private messages. It just don't happen. I just don't care what's said normally. You can bad mouth me all you like in private messages and I will never know it. Just make sure you giggle as you do

In this instance they made it clear in a public message on their site they were targeting membership from this site.

QuoteThe new board has been created, the name is withheld for privacy reasons. Certain topics have been moved to the new board already. It is for discussion of the past and members who were involved together to discuss safely. This will prevent new members wandering in and feeling confused by the discussion of previous history, we wish to avoid this.

You will only be allowed access if you have been a member of the aforementioned place and wish to discuss such topics privately with other members. I have already added folks to the group but if I have missed anyone who knows of the past I speak of and wishes to join, please PM me and I will add you to the group.

Kind regards,

Since it's such a new forum I knew they had to be advertising it most likely on my site, a violation of the rules;  and I wanted it stopped.

I then searched the site for this url and once found checked to see if it was advertising, in these cases it was. When I ran the sql search, it checked for the presence of the url in the link directory, the forum topics, posts, members profiles, and personal messages. The only reason I viewed the personal messages at all, was to ensure that the presence of the url was actually that person sending it  to someone else, not simply someone quoting a message they had been sent. I could have just banned them all but that would have been unfair.

This is a clearly administrative purpose as stated under the privacy policy.

I hates that you get people out there who seem to think that spreading rumours (regardless whether they hold any truth, it's just not the right way to go about things) and stealing/sabotage is somehow fair game or 'good business'. Things that are built on the bricks of spite will always invoke a need for negativity.

One of the banned members has contacted me, this is what I told them.

QuoteIf you wish to apologize and assure me that you will never advertise on my site in the future, I will remove the ban.

JulieBlair has been unbanned.

Giggled a bit at the 'cold hearted biatch' statement, a woman who gives her time and money to fund a site to help transgendered people have a safe place and an amazing resource, someone who gives her time every day to check the forums, chat, minecraft ect.
From getting to know her personally and of course from the work she does, she's one of the women furthest from a 'cold hearted bitch' I've ever met. I applaud what she does, and no that's not sucking up
Surely it's more cold hearted for one to spread rumours than make a world wide support site? Or maybe that's just me... lol

Quote from: Matthew on November 29, 2014, 01:33:37 PM
Giggled a bit at the 'cold hearted biatch' statement, a woman who gives her time and money to fund a site to help transgendered people have a safe place and an amazing resource, someone who gives her time every day to check the forums, chat, minecraft ect.
From getting to know her personally and of course from the work she does, she's one of the women furthest from a 'cold hearted bitch' I've ever met. I applaud what she does, and no that's not sucking up
Surely it's more cold hearted for one to spread rumours than make a world wide support site? Or maybe that's just me... lol

I totally agree. Susan  is  all  right in my book.

To the person who had the audacity to call Susan a bitch,you are FAR from reality.To many here,she is a friend and a mentor.All she has been to me in PMs and my interactions with her is a very sweet woman.Ill guarantee you that you would understand if you were in our shoes for one day.

Susan,

You are one classy Lady... full of generosity and integrity...

Much admiration and respect !

Peky

As one who was banned, no disrespect was intended nor at least in my opinion was, except for a few, was competition an agenda.  Many people including myself contributed in both spaces. The essential purposes of the two areas are, or at least started out as different.  I hoped to expand and affirm - guess I cannot.

As for that Facebook post.  Dumb, wrong, and sad.  I do not understand personal invective, nor do understand such anger.  This is a support website.  This is not a personal space for discord nor is disrespect ever appropriate.  I said as much when the non-binary community felt attacked, I iterated that again here.

Susan, I'm sorry that anyone would threaten you or anyone else with such insulting and unseemly discourse as what appeared on Facebook.  I am tired, and I am sad.

I wish everyone everywhere peace. 

I was told about the other forum by email. Clearly, since it was through email it was not against the rules here. However, I think the situation was similar to many of those who sent PMs. It was not a competition or an advertisement per se. As Julie said, the site began by filling a different niche. I and many of the members at the other site were members of both. The person who sent me the email was telling me where they went and how it would be a place for nonbinary folks. Of course I can not represent the other forum or say what was in those PMs but from my take it wasn't to compete or bash Susan's.

QuoteThere's a difference in sending a link to help a friend, and posting Telling people to be quiet about it, or saying Oh Yes I did when giving the link etc, or telling someone how much nicer they found the people over there than here etc.  Those indicated the person knew they were violating the terms of service, or were advertising.

Pretty much the guidelines have to be if it's not acceptable in the public area, it's not acceptable in private. A good example of this policy is that we have removed private messaging ability from people for indicating in a public post that they intended using it to discuss self medication etc. You are always permitted to contact me in private to discuss issues with the site policies, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; and you are free to discuss those type topics with others. 

I have to admit I am confused. I could have seen myself sending a PM mentioning the other site in much the same way it was share with me via email. I guess I don't see the difference between sharing information with a friend and what you call advertising. Since you didn't read the posts, it seems you might be making an assumption about the content? I certainly wasn't told to be quiet about it. I wasn't told people were nicer either. I was told it was a group for NB folks. So, let me switch up just a bit. There is a SI forum I have been a member of for a long time. If I sent someone a PM saying I was going to be spending most of my time there for now, because I fit better there and I provided a link. Would I be banned?   

On a different note, I will say do not agree with making a Facebook post like the one Susan showed. It does no one any good. I wish that had never been made. I also don't understand what the purpose was of naming the people who got banned. Public shaming here or there is not healthy or respectful.