Hello everyone! I have a question about what the standard is when it comes to adding progesterone to one's hormone regimen. I've heard different things; from it's supposed to be cyclic with three weeks off and one week on alternating with oestradiol, to others who have said it's only supposed to be prescribed for a year at most and then stopped. My doctor has not set any kind of timeline, and I take it every day of the month. I was wondering what the general consensus is. I know that there is considerable debate about the effectiveness of adding progesterone, but I have definitely seen a difference since starting.

I'm on hydroxyprogesterone and estradiol valerate throughout the whole month, then on the fourth week I'm on micronized progesterone capsules as well, the whole idea of this is to get estrogen n progesterone in the female range n then the micronized progesterone taken on the last 10 days in a 4 week cycle is to mimic the female cycle.

Ever since my progesterone has been taken this way, more growth has been stimulated, then when I was only on micronized progesterone on the last 10 days in a 4 week cycle.

The idea of adding progesterone comes from the idea that, progesterone contributes to the growth of the milk ducts in the breast n will contribute to a more full and natural breast shape, also resulting in firmer breasts, it's also thought that progesterone will help to reduce risk of breast cancer, it also helps estradiol to become it's metabolites, estriol and estrone, estriol is also thought to reduce risk of breast cancer but is unproven, other then the fact that estriol, is found in high levels in breast cancer patients, n the belief that estriol fights cancer cells.     

There's a lot of information here, remember to thank the Wiki Staff!

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Progesterone

Quote from: Clhoe G on December 04, 2014, 10:58:49 AM
the whole idea of this is to get estrogen n progesterone in the female range

Female range is VERY wide from very low during follicular phase to very high during pregnancy so whatever level you end up having, you will end up in range most likely. Also, females developed during puberty when growth hormone levels were quite high relative to us so to compare us to them isn't accurate. Individuals also differ in sensitivity so that a certain level/dose might work well for one while not working for the other. Lastly, levels FLUCTUATE so that measurements aren't accurate and oh yea...hydroxyprogesterone acts directly on progesterone receptors and doesn't raise progesterone levels so really measuring P levels on Hydroxy is not accurate either.

Quotethen the micronized progesterone taken on the last 10 days in a 4 week cycle is to mimic the female cycle.

Why mimic the female cycle? Doctors disagree on this and I personally am of the opinion that hundreds of cycles during one's lifetime is a recent phenomena not intended by nature, and the result of modernization (human intervention) such that traditionally, women would spend most their lives either pregnant or breastfeeding. Is mimicking cycles really the best approach and natural? I personally don't think so...but as always, I'm just a layperson sharing my thoughts on the subject.

QuoteEver since my progesterone has been taken this way, more growth has been stimulated, then when I was only on micronized progesterone on the last 10 days in a 4 week cycle.

Because you are getting progestogenic effects on a more constant basis? (hydroxyprogesterone)

QuoteThe idea of adding progesterone comes from the idea that, progesterone contributes to the growth of the milk ducts

Based on my understanding and reading of scientific papers, ducts are stimulated by estrogen while lobules and alveoli by progesterone. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quoteit also helps estradiol to become it's metabolites, estriol and estrone

Good or bad? Since estrone and estriol are much weaker estrogens...As you see, I like to question stuff. I think it's important to do this to get closer to facts.

Quotethe belief that estriol fights cancer cells.

Interesting that breast cancer increases as women age and their estrogen/progesterone levels drop. Also interesting that women who've had more pregnancies seem to be less afflicted with breast cancer and pregnancy is a time when estrogen/progesterone levels are VERY high. Estradiol is still the predominant hormone.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 04, 2014, 11:30:40 AM
There's a lot of information here, remember to thank the Wiki Staff!

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Progesterone

To take that info on Wiki with a grain of salt because it is not always accurate. It's good to check references, read thoroughly, etc. Same with info provided on this forum... check with doctors, read papers, etc. The more you know, the better.

Quote from: KayXo on December 04, 2014, 07:50:35 PM
Female range is VERY wide from very low during follicular phase to very high during pregnancy so whatever level you end up having, you will end up in range most likely. Also, females developed during puberty when growth hormone levels were quite high relative to us so to compare us to them isn't accurate.

None the less, meeting the proper female range is the norm, so I'm not really shore what you point is here.

Quote from: KayXo on December 04, 2014, 07:50:35 PM
oh yea...hydroxyprogesterone acts directly on progesterone receptors and doesn't raise progesterone levels so really measuring P levels on Hydroxy is not accurate either.

And what you think my doctor is to stupid to know this? The dose is relative enough.

Quote from: KayXo on December 04, 2014, 07:50:35 PM

Why mimic the female cycle? Doctors disagree on this

No, doctors are just to lazy to put in the work, so the method of HRT varies from doctor to doctor.

Quote from: KayXo on December 04, 2014, 07:50:35 PM
Based on my understanding and reading of scientific papers, ducts are stimulated by estrogen while lobules and alveoli by progesterone. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A lot more new information is out since the 1970s.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3738150/

Quote from: KayXo on December 04, 2014, 07:50:35 PM

Good or bad? Since estrone and estriol are much weaker estrogens...As you see, I like to question stuff. I think it's important to do this to get closer to facts.

Interesting that breast cancer increases as women age and their estrogen/progesterone levels drop. Also interesting that women who've had more pregnancies seem to be less afflicted with breast cancer and pregnancy is a time when estrogen/progesterone levels are VERY high. Estradiol is still the predominant hormone.

Yet again a lots changed since the 70s just as much as conflicting new and old data has grown, so I think I'm just going to agree to disagree with some things.

Estriols weakness is it's strength.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/2008/8/Estriol-Its-Weakness-is-its-Strength/Page-01

Information suggests that decreased risk of cancer,  is not because of the increase of estradiol in pregnancy, but is the increase in progesterone and estriol, because breast cancer is mostly estradiol dependent so progesterone n estriol down regulate potential negative side effects of estradiol.

But it's no big secret pregnancy can ruin a female form, so I that's a plus that I can't get pregnant 

Also I'd like to add, that the most feminizing phytoestrogens appear to be much closer to estriol then estradiol.

Quote from: Clhoe G on December 05, 2014, 01:09:34 AM
None the less, meeting the proper female range is the norm, so I'm not really shore what you point is here.

Norm doesn't mean it's right. It's important to question and use common sense.

QuoteNo, doctors are just to lazy to put in the work

I tend to agree with this. Sadly.

QuoteYet again a lots changed since the 70s

Why do you keep on referring to the 1970's? The data I've come across is from as early as the 1960's to 2014.

QuoteInformation suggests that decreased risk of cancer,  is not because of the increase of estradiol in pregnancy, but is the increase in progesterone and estriol, because breast cancer is mostly estradiol dependent

How do we determine that it is estriol and progesterone that are protective rather than estradiol? How do we isolate variables? It's impossible. What's surprising is that we are told that estradiol causes breast cancer risk and yet, pregnancy protects against it and is a time when estradiol levels are VERY high, higher than both estrone and estriol. Also surprising is that breast cancer increases after the age of 40 and especially after 50, when estradiol DROPS drastically. What we observe doesn't coincide with what we are told and as such, it's only normal to question assertions. Nothing wrong with questioning.

QuoteBut it's no big secret pregnancy can ruin a female form

My "form" is much improved since being on pregnant levels of estradiol and progesterone. I look younger, healthier, more vibrant than ever. I don't have a fetus inside of me that stretches out my skin and that's where the "form" can be ruined, as you say.

QuoteAlso I'd like to add, that the most feminizing phytoestrogens appear to be much closer to estriol then estradiol.

And they are weaker and much less effective at feminizing than estradiol. Why would we ever be interested in them? Estradiol is always higher in concentration in ciswomen than estriol.