I've been full time for over a year now. At the start my social life was greatly curtailed, and I spent most of my time either at home or work. Nowadays my confidence is much better. I tend to hang around with my best friend who is also my ex girlfriend and we go anywhere and everywhere. On my own or with cis people I don't have any problems, no one looks or treats me as anything other than female. My voice is passable and I try to blend in and avoid drawing attention.

I do have a fair number of trans friends, and I usually meet up with them in trans friendly spaces. Recently however I've found myself in groups of trans women in 'mainstream' areas, and it's thrown up a real dilemma for me. Some of these women don't care if people read them as trans, they make no effort with their voices and have a lot of confidence. I admire them a lot for that but they do draw far more attention than I'm used to. In those groups I've come across much more bigotry and hostility than I ever do on my own. There's also basically zero chance of any of us passing when we are in these groups.

Part of me feels like I shouldn't care about what other people think, and that I'm betraying the community if I let the reactions of the public affect who I hang around with and where. But I also feel a lot more vulnerable when I'm in such a group, and I don't want my social circle to be purely based around the trans community. And I am a bit concerned that by being in these groups in and around my local area, in shops that I go in a lot, that I am effectively outing myself as trans in an area that I love and hope to stay in for years to come.

I don't mean any of this to cause offence, I'm just trying to figure out a way forward. What have everyone's experiences been like and what have you done when faced with similar dilemmas?

Squircle,

There's nothing wrong with wanting to pass. Don't beat yourself up about it. Ultimately you have to do what makes you most comfortable, because you've earned a bit of comfort and peace of mind. Don't feel guilty for being selective about where and when you see certain friends; this doesn't make you a bad person, or even a bad friend.

Why not set up a regular thing with those girls in an environment where you feel comfortable, and save those other places for the rest of your friends? To an extent, we all have to compartmentalize parts of our lives, after all.

I hope you find your balance.

Cheers,
Tegan

While there's safety in numbers the more TS girls there are the easier it is to be clocked.

Squircle, I can understand your feelings here.  I have them myself some time.  I don't think you should beat yourself up over it.  You naturally think about your safety.  Who wouldn't?

I think there are different circumstances.  If a T-girl simply isn't passable, it seems pretty harsh to stay away from her for that reason alone.  I think her feelings would be hurt pretty badly if she knew you were staying away from her for that reason.  That can be a real dilemma.

The other situation is what you're describing, T-girls who aren't afraid to draw attention to themselves.  That's not me at all, and I don't think I'd hang out with people who were like that.  I like to move around under the radar as much as possible.

I think it would be great  to have Tgirl friends to hang out with, like I really wouldn't care what other people thought, I mean it would be nice to fit in with a group, I hate being an outcast in groups, I spent the most part of my life thus far not fitting in, so I think it would be great

Quote from: big kim on December 11, 2014, 04:02:43 AM
While there's safety in numbers the more TS girls there are the easier it is to be clocked.

Yep. It has happened to me before and I knew it was going to happen before all of us went out. Some of my trans friends are not very far down the trans path and they still have things to learn. I will admit that getting clocked was not an experience that I am used to and it made me feel uncomfortable.

I usually don't get clocked in public so I had to sit down afterward and think about what had just happened. I realized that by worrying about this I am worrying about what other people might think (stupid!), I am trying to control something that is out of my control (stupid!), and I am not being a true friend to my friends (major stupidity!).

I simply refuse to be "that friend" - it's wrong. Its not who I am. I also knew that my friend's feelings would have been majorly hurt if they knew how I had been feeling that night.

I have since resolved to be a better person and a better friend in all circumstances.

Now I am far more protective of my bothers and sisters and I'll flat out tell someone to step off if they are being unkind to my friends when we are out. My friend's happiness and well being is worth far more to me than some stranger's opinion.

I don't give a rodent's rectum if I get clocked.  It happens.  BFD.  If going out with a group of transfolk increases the chances of this happening, see my first statement.

Several years ago, I was at one of my fave Mexican restaurants in LA.   At the table next to us were five transwomen.  Two of them would not have registered on my trans-dar had they been alone. 

My thoughts?  I wanted to applaud them all for having the strength to do that.   I didn't think I could ever go there myself.   Now that the flats are on the other foot, I am proud to be where I am today, and I invite all of you to go out to dinner with me.

We're just not going to do it late at night in a sketchy neighborhood.

Quote from: Jill F on December 11, 2014, 02:55:45 PM
I don't give a rodent's rectum if I get clocked.  It happens.  BFD.  If going out with a group of transfolk increases the chances of this happening, see my first statement.

Several years ago, I was at one of my fave Mexican restaurants in LA.   At the table next to us were five transwomen.  Two of them would not have registered on my trans-dar had they been alone. 

My thoughts?  I wanted to applaud them all for having the strength to do that.   I didn't think I could ever go there myself.   Now that the flats are on the other foot, I am proud to be where I am today, and I invite all of you to go out to dinner with me.

We're just not going to do it late at night in a sketchy neighborhood.

I think you have a very sound view on life

Quote from: Eva Marie on December 11, 2014, 02:40:59 PM
Yep. It has happened to me before and I knew it was going to happen before all of us went out. Some of my trans friends are not very far down the trans path and they still have things to learn. I will admit that getting clocked was not an experience that I am used to and it made me feel uncomfortable.

I usually don't get clocked in public so I had to sit down afterward and think about what had just happened. I realized that by worrying about this I am worrying about what other people might think (stupid!), I am trying to control something that is out of my control (stupid!), and I am not being a true friend to my friends (major stupidity!).

I simply refuse to be "that friend" - it's wrong. Its not who I am. I also knew that my friend's feelings would have been majorly hurt if they knew how I had been feeling that night.

I have since resolved to be a better person and a better friend in all circumstances.

Now I am far more protective of my bothers and sisters and I'll flat out tell someone to step off if they are being unkind to my friends when we are out. My friend's happiness and well being is worth far more to me than some stranger's opinion.

good attitude

Quote from: Jill F on December 11, 2014, 02:55:45 PM
I don't give a rodent's rectum if I get clocked.  It happens.  BFD.  If going out with a group of transfolk increases the chances of this happening, see my first statement.

Several years ago, I was at one of my fave Mexican restaurants in LA.   At the table next to us were five transwomen.  Two of them would not have registered on my trans-dar had they been alone. 

My thoughts?  I wanted to applaud them all for having the strength to do that.   I didn't think I could ever go there myself.   Now that the flats are on the other foot, I am proud to be where I am today, and I invite all of you to go out to dinner with me.

We're just not going to do it late at night in a sketchy neighborhood.

Jill,

That answer was better than mine.  Thank you.

-Teg

PS- I might take you up on dinner. I'm a SoCal girl not too far from Los Angeles myself.

Quote from: Sincerely Tegan on December 11, 2014, 03:27:49 PM
PS- I might take you up on dinner. I'm a SoCal girl not too far from Los Angeles myself.

Any time, Teg.

Who here wants to go to Casa Vega?

Quote from: Jill F on December 11, 2014, 04:01:43 PM
Any time, Teg.

Who here wants to go to Casa Vega?

I'll go! 

Quote from: Eva Marie on December 11, 2014, 04:15:53 PM
I'll go! 

Awesome!  I know we've done three transwomen there at once, but lets one up that group of five next time!   

Who wants tacos?

mmmm...tacos.  If only I was in LA.

I went out last night with a group of trans friends.  I pass most of the time, and one of my friends passes all the time.  The other two that were with us pass none of the time, and they frankly don't care.  And so they do drag me down with them.  But I decided to put it out of my mind and just not worry about it...just enjoy being with my friends. 

And it also helps that we were on Capitol Hill in Seattle...perhaps the most trans-friendly place in America! 

It seems to me that if you pass and you're out with friends who don't, the average person would say something like "There's a woman with those crossdressers."

I mean, if you don't pass when you're with someone presenting female, you probably wouldn't have a chance standing next to some men at the bus stop. Right?

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 11, 2014, 06:00:24 PM
It seems to me that if you pass and you're out with friends who don't, the average person would say something like "There's a woman with those crossdressers."

For some this may be true, but only for the most passable.  I think it's because "that lady is trans" doesn't even occur to most people unless something really catches their attention.  Thus, passing is partially dependent on society's ignorance about trans people.  This also explains why we can recognize each other very easily.  We know what to look for, while most just don't.

Anyway...if a transwoman who passes reasonably well is out with one who doesn't, then most people will be tipped off by the one who doesn't.  And suddenly the little flaws in presentation that usually go unnoticed are highlighted because of the non-passing friend.

IMHO 

Hi Eva Marie;, Jill & Teeg;

Count me in next time I come to LA. I love Mexican Food!
JudithLynn

Quote from: judithlynn on December 11, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
Hi Eva Marie;, Jill & Teeg;

Count me in next time I come to LA. I love Mexican Food!
JudithLynn

Me, too.  I'll have to see when's the next flight out of Dublin.  If I'm a bit late, don't wait on me.

Are we going to have to start a California girls meet up thread? Tacos sound really good right now. 

-Teg