Quote from: jasellebelle on December 12, 2014, 09:54:54 AM
I am scheduled to see a therapist but I wanted to know if anyone has gotten rid of their dysphoria without transitioning. Ex taking testosterone ( im biological male) or not accepting these feelings at all.

Some days I just run away from these thought and get scared.

I did a cycle of steroids in college hoping for a cure. It made everything worse. Muscle that I would still like to lose, and while I was on them I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide. Not something I would highly recommend.

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This is an important topic so lets discuss it in a sensible way.

If people aggressive and unsympathetic posts they are to be reported to the Mods or I.

Thank you and have a safe journey in dealing with your gender issues.

Quote from: ToniR on December 13, 2014, 04:03:27 PM
I did a cycle of steroids in college hoping for a cure. It made everything worse. Muscle that I would still like to lose, and while I was on them I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide. Not something I would highly recommend.

Can you describe your behavior when you say it got worse? How long ago was that and have you transitioned since? If you are on estrogen, have you reversed the changes/effects of the T on your mental and physical state?

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 13, 2014, 12:14:02 AM
I've read a number of times that low dose estrogen is a good diagnostic test for being transgender, and that some mental problems disappear when taking it as being transgender is the root cause. I can understand now how that might be true. I was offered some drug to help with depression, but turned it down. I didn't want to get confused as to what's really causing my problems, and that's turned out to be a really good decision. When I increased my estrogen the depression completely evaporated - if anything I'm slight euphoric all the time now.

Aha, well, as I was born with quite a bit of estrogen in my system, I'm not sure adding more is all that diagnostic. I'm FTM. That said, I'm trying estrogen as almost the anti-diagnostic, sort of the way OP is interested in testosterone. In my case, there's a decent chance of success, I think, as estrogen is used for its mood buoying effects in cis women, especially in those who are post-menopausal or who have PMDD (which is a form of severe PMS). I'm trying it as a last effort before transitioning because it will smooth out my hormone cycles and, ideally, alleviate my dysphoria.

Quote from: jasellebelle on December 14, 2014, 04:42:29 PM
Can you describe your behavior when you say it got worse? How long ago was that and have you transitioned since? If you are on estrogen, have you reversed the changes/effects of the T on your mental and physical state?

That was back in '89. Reliable information about being trans wasn't very available back then. At least for me it wasn't. I figured the extra t would make things right. I hit the gym hard and ate plate loads of food. At first the muscle gain was cool. Hey now I'm looking like a man kind of feeling. That lasted about a month until the depression started. I stopped the injections but I already hated my new body. The boy-like figure that was easily gender neutral was gone. Mentally I was a wreck. I was mad all the time at everyone and everything. At the same time felt like a total waste of good air. I really had no control over my thoughts or feelings. After everything I wasn't able to be right in the head, if you want to call it that, for about six months. In that time I did a lot of stupid things. Extra t is not all it's cracked up to be. Definitely doesn't fix anything.
No, I never transitioned. I still continue the masquerade.  I took herbs once a few years back which resulted in a lot better mental state that I was unprepared for. The physical changes made me nervous though so I stopped. The last few years I've been drinking spearmint tea  trying to suppress the t a bit. It seems to help some even if it's only in my mind. I've been curious to ask my doc for to test what my levels are, but haven't worked up the nerve yet.

Quote from: captains on December 14, 2014, 09:34:12 PM
Aha, well, as I was born with quite a bit of estrogen in my system, I'm not sure adding more is all that diagnostic. I'm FTM. That said, I'm trying estrogen as almost the anti-diagnostic, sort of the way OP is interested in testosterone. In my case, there's a decent chance of success, I think, as estrogen is used for its mood buoying effects in cis women, especially in those who are post-menopausal or who have PMDD (which is a form of severe PMS). I'm trying it as a last effort before transitioning because it will smooth out my hormone cycles and, ideally, alleviate my dysphoria.

Hi Captains,

When do you plan on trying this route with the estrogen? I will have to check my hormones with my doc. I am not sure if they will prescribe it if my test isnt low, but I have alternate ways of getting test...some of my friends take it for lifting weights. How do you plan to obtain the estrogen?

I do hope it works for you! Keep us me posted on the outcome as I will do the same 

Quote from: ToniR on December 14, 2014, 10:53:35 PM
That was back in '89. Reliable information about being trans wasn't very available back then. At least for me it wasn't. I figured the extra t would make things right. I hit the gym hard and ate plate loads of food. At first the muscle gain was cool. Hey now I'm looking like a man kind of feeling. That lasted about a month until the depression started. I stopped the injections but I already hated my new body. The boy-like figure that was easily gender neutral was gone. Mentally I was a wreck. I was mad all the time at everyone and everything. At the same time felt like a total waste of good air. I really had no control over my thoughts or feelings. After everything I wasn't able to be right in the head, if you want to call it that, for about six months. In that time I did a lot of stupid things. Extra t is not all it's cracked up to be. Definitely doesn't fix anything.
No, I never transitioned. I still continue the masquerade.  I took herbs once a few years back which resulted in a lot better mental state that I was unprepared for. The physical changes made me nervous though so I stopped. The last few years I've been drinking spearmint tea  trying to suppress the t a bit. It seems to help some even if it's only in my mind. I've been curious to ask my doc for to test what my levels are, but haven't worked up the nerve yet.

Did you do PCT after your cycle of test? I know the side effects can cause a lot of depression, depending on the person of course. Just in case you dont know, PCT is post cycle therapy for the test you take. I assume you know this if you did a cycle, but some people have no idea and take roids without proper measures.

I ask in particular of the depression because it is like the chicken or the egg question. Does the dysphoria cause me to be depressed at times or does the depression trigger the dysphoria?

In your case, I wonder if the test made you depressed and triggered the dysphoria. If no proper PCT was taken after taking test, your hormones can be off whack and have many side effects, mostly mood dysfunction since we are altering hormones here; which ultimately is the management system of the chemicals which determines the mood.

Sorry to get to specific or scientific, but I am hypothesizing about the dysphoria/depression/test and the cause and effect of each.

Quote from: jasellebelle on December 12, 2014, 03:12:48 PM
Well here is everything in response to your post. I turned 30 this year, no wife or kids, I'm single and my body is quite thin. Given I shave I could probably pass from my stomach and below. Obviously I have some wide shoulders and my arms are muscular but I have some feminine traits physically.

If I did go on estrogen in a small dosage I would see changes im afraid to show people. I may get softer skin and the things I want but I don't want anyone to know.

I work in pharmaceutical sales but I am actually applying to masters programs so ill be in school again so I suppose my career is moot in this case. At least for the next 6 months.

As for family and friends, I can see some being very accepting but others quite the opposite. I fear rejection in my personal life as it is. Funny I deal with rejection in sales daily but when I'm not all business I worry a lot about being accepted. Some family and friends wouldn't understand and I feel as if I will fail them.

This is so crazy...everything is just so complex right now. If I didn't have anyone in my life,  I would probably jump to start transitioning. I just want to get rid of this so bad.

According to Deborah it won't go away and that us frightening. I envy you all who are able to embrace this and take on the world for what you feel is right. Maybe I'm used to internalizing everything else in my life so I could cope by doing it with the dysphoria. Honestly,  you all are so brave!

You are in a good position right now. You are not married and you have no huge attachment can make a big difference for you. I on the other hand I'm 47 years old and have been trying to cope the dysphoria for many years. You can try to do things to lessen the feelings but the bottom line is you can't keep it down for long. Just as an example last year my disphoria was stronger than the year before but I was not thinking yet about hormones. Well let's just say the thought has been on my mind for many years but I was never really thinking of the seriously taking them. Fast forward to today where I am dead set I'm telling my doctor and my therapist I want to go on estrogen and I'd like to stop taking testosterone. You can try it keep this bottled up but the longer you wait the stronger in returns. And every time it returns it wants more. So maybe you have feelings now that you're female and that's disturbing to you. I can relate because I was there feeling the guilt and the shame because I thought I was a crossdresser but things are just progressing now to further heights. I've gone from the desire to wear female clothes and the desire to be female which was at one point sort of a fantasy to the desire to leave the house dressed to moving on to desire to take hormones and possibly transition. And this is partially my fault because tried to keep my feelings at bay to smooth things out with my wife. Bottom line is the feelings have come back stronger and my female side is overpowering my male side wanting things that in some way scare me that is something that I need to speak about with my therapist. Hang in there it's a tough road but you can make it you just have to work with a therapist and remember it's never too late to make changes or take action.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Quote from: jasellebelle on December 14, 2014, 11:04:07 PM
Did you do PCT after your cycle of test? I know the side effects can cause a lot of depression, depending on the person of course. Just in case you dont know, PCT is post cycle therapy for the test you take. I assume you know this if you did a cycle, but some people have no idea and take roids without proper measures.

I ask in particular of the depression because it is like the chicken or the egg question. Does the dysphoria cause me to be depressed at times or does the depression trigger the dysphoria?

In your case, I wonder if the test made you depressed and triggered the dysphoria. If no proper PCT was taken after taking test, your hormones can be off whack and have many side effects, mostly mood dysfunction since we are altering hormones here; which ultimately is the management system of the chemicals which determines the mood.

Sorry to get to specific or scientific, but I am hypothesizing about the dysphoria/depression/test and the cause and effect of each.

No worries, I'm an engineer by trade, so no problems with being scientific, lol.
To answer, no meds afterwards. My levels were monitored and the docs said that I wasn't on the t long enough for my body to start trying to compensate too much. Levels of t and e were back to normal within a few weeks. The emotional instability was highest while on t, but the chicken/egg or dysphoria/depression/test question is really impossible for me to answer.

Quote from: jasellebelle on December 14, 2014, 10:57:02 PM
Hi Captains,

When do you plan on trying this route with the estrogen? I will have to check my hormones with my doc. I am not sure if they will prescribe it if my test isnt low, but I have alternate ways of getting test...some of my friends take it for lifting weights. How do you plan to obtain the estrogen?

I do hope it works for you! Keep us me posted on the outcome as I will do the same 

Thank you! I will certainly keep you updated. I haven't begun supplemental estrogen yet, but hope to in the next week or so. Fortunately for me, it's easier to acquire than T -- most hormonal birth controls contain estradiol. I plan to (truthfully) tell my doc I get what I suspect are hormone related mood swings/depression. That usually does the trick!

I can relate to your fears and your struggles with what to do about the dysphoria. I believe the WPath Standards of Care suggest that taking hormones can be used to confirm the diagnosis of dysphoria. Since most of the effects of hormones disappear if you stop taking the hormones after a short period, you should talk with an experienced therapist about this.

I started hormones six weeks ago after 40+ years and the dissonance/anxiety/dysphoria vanished in just a couple of days. I don't know what the future holds, but there is little chance I'll go back to feeling the way I have for most of my life. I finally feel normal and right. Whatever 'normal' means...

"I don't know what the future holds, but there is little chance I'll go back to feeling the way I have for most of my life. I finally feel normal and right. "

I decided a few days ago to just do it. I feel soooo happy! Scared, but happy! Thats 10000x better than hopeless angry and sad forever!
sorry if this reads inappropriately but heres what i think cures dysphoria; transitioning.
Who else fancies taking the plunge? This isnt going to go away, so lets do it now while we are young! Whos with me? If we begin now, we'll be there by 2017! Im alive, and this is my life!
LETS DO THIS LADIES!!

I certainly believe that GD cannot be "Cured", of course that is assuming what you are feeling is really GD. But let's say it is.

Now, how intense is the dysphoria? The frequency of the feelings? How well do you function and are able to participate in the activities of daily living?

All these questions all point at how well can you and what needs to be tried in order to Manage the dysphoria. Even with HRT, GRS, anything short of total brainwashing will never eradicate your past. And of course, you'll need one of those MIB brain erasers for anyone and everyone you may ever have crossed paths in your life.

I was fortunate, and still am, in that I have been able to "manage" the dysphoria to date without a full transition. In fact for 30-40 years I managed it without anything more than the monthly or so much needed trip to Female Island via an an afternoon of cross-dressing. For the most part it worked well except during periods of very high stress. About 3-4 times I went the low dose HRT route for a few months. My life by about every measure was and is successful.

About 6 years ago my life went totally into the crapper. Otherwise known as totally high stress. I have a semi-invalid wife, I lost my job at the peak of my career, landed a new one some 350 miles form home. A job in which my skills were not just totally underutilized, but handicapped by a monster burocracy. I was alone since the wife had to stay behind to bark at strangers. I moved from just outside NYC to the hicks of WV. Yep, total crapper.

And the dysphoria got worse. The methods I needed to manage it escalated in return. From being an ocassional to non cross-dresser I was going to my TG support group presenting as female. Restarted HRT. Worked on my emotional health. Eventually graduated to living part-time as female.

I then became much healthier and happier. Now I am back in NJ with another dream job going what I love and being loved and given accolades for being me again. I no longer can go part-time. It's been 18 months now. I am still mostly happy but missing part-time

Honestly, if there was a way that I could be accepted as female without having to transition, I'd go that route.  It's not as simple as that, obviously, and I can only speak from my own experience.  But repressing this or trying to ignore it isn't going to do anything but stress you out, long term.  I know I did everything I could to play the role for years, only to just get sick of trying.  I'm not out, yet, and it may be a long time before I can do so, because there's so much I need to suss out for myself, but trying to be someone I'm not isn't working anymore.  There's a girl in this skin, whether or not my physical attributes reflect that.  I wish others could see that as easily as I do, but obviously, it's not that simple.

All I could say to anyone else on this matter is that the more you try to pretend to be someone else, the more miserable you're eventually going to find yourself. 

i had pain for most of my life. got into a right state. got put on antiandrogen and life became better. stopped the testosterone clouding my thoughts. as mtf i think the level of testosterone conflicts with how the brain feels. now i can judge how i want to transition.if i choose not to or cant for some reason then i would stay without the testosterone. its a slow process of decisions as your body alters.you may find a stage where you are happy without going any further. i do think so many jump in feet first and go straight for the top then crash when its not what they expected.

Can it be cured? No.. Can it be treated and managed? For sure. And this covers a broad range of options as previous people have mentioned. However, treatment and management require that you be OK with who you are, self acceptance is vital. And it seems to be lacking.

And it saddens me to see that people are still considering same-sex hormone treatments.. It's never worked in the past and won't work in the future.. Didn't work for gay people either.

Quote from: jasellebelle on December 12, 2014, 03:12:48 PM
Well here is everything in response to your post. I turned 30 this year, no wife or kids, I'm single and my body is quite thin. Given I shave I could probably pass from my stomach and below. Obviously I have some wide shoulders and my arms are muscular but I have some feminine traits physically.

If I did go on estrogen in a small dosage I would see changes im afraid to show people. I may get softer skin and the things I want but I don't want anyone to know.

I work in pharmaceutical sales but I am actually applying to masters programs so ill be in school again so I suppose my career is moot in this case. At least for the next 6 months.

As for family and friends, I can see some being very accepting but others quite the opposite. I fear rejection in my personal life as it is. Funny I deal with rejection in sales daily but when I'm not all business I worry a lot about being accepted. Some family and friends wouldn't understand and I feel as if I will fail them.

This is so crazy...everything is just so complex right now. If I didn't have anyone in my life,  I would probably jump to start transitioning. I just want to get rid of this so bad.

According to Deborah it won't go away and that us frightening. I envy you all who are able to embrace this and take on the world for what you feel is right. Maybe I'm used to internalizing everything else in my life so I could cope by doing it with the dysphoria. Honestly,  you all are so brave!

ok this struck a chord with me, im 32, done lots of boyish jobs; car design, sfx work, went out with lots of girls, but underneath im 100% trans, i always knew it, and 1 month ago i decided to go for it. no second thoughts so far.
i dont know about you but i used to have fantasies about hanging out with girlfriends learning about make up, or going shopping and trying nice things on, or just feeling girly. its way way way better in real life.
go for it, 100%. some, maybe most people respect it, find it funny, feel happy for you and enjoy being around you cos youre dead happy. i dont pass at all, i want ffs, i want hrt, but whatever, im going to live like a woman as much as poss from now on. not an iota of second thoughts yet after 35 days. make up is getting there.
out of the hundreds of people i know, 2 or 3 have been dicks, a girl an arab guy and a russian. it sounds like the beginning of a joke and it is, who cares what 2 or 3 morons think?
with your friends and fams on board, youre all set girl!
i feel happy all the time. instead of very unhappy all the time. all the bull->-bleeped-<- of life and work is easy. and most things become fun, even stuff that used to piss me off. work is going waaaay better; turns out you dont need to be miserable to work hard or well (that was a genuine concern at one point)
its your life, be a transgirl its awesome! please. its like all ur dreams coming true!

(VA raising hand as someone who got rid of his gender dysphoria without transitioning)

No one here has the right or experience to diagnose the underlying cause of your dysphoria; whether it is biologic, psychological or was built into the structure of your brain before birth. That said, it is important to realize there are many reasons a person may have gender dysphoria or feel the need to express themself as their gender not assigned at birth that have nothing to do with being transgender. No one ever seems to offer that as a possibility; at least they didn't to me. And it would have saved my wife and me a helluva lot of pain and aggravation if they had.

It took three years of monthly therapy with a gender therapist and a cognitive psychologist and the bi-monthly sessions with the clinical psychologist my wife and I see for couple's counseling to discover I am a survivor of childhood trauma with DID/MPD (Dissociative Identity Disorder/Multiple Personality Disorder). The pain was locked so deep in my  subconscious and five alters my condition flew under a full psychological profile and remained hidden for 48 years.

The battle for control of the body when my female alter became self-aware was a bloody one. I'm a DES son, have an extremely andro body and my female alter had zip zero nada problems being accepted as a woman prior to hormones. I entered therapy with all the classic symptoms of GD and was diagnosed as textbook late onset transsexual at my first session. HRT even helped (albeit not for the reason it does for transgender folk; see link below). But as right as transition felt, as much as my doctor's encouraged it, part of me knew it would be very very wrong.

DID is a disorder of secrecy; the victim's life depended on hiding it and all of that was the quiet before the storm. When I began to experience time/memory loss, nightmares and flashback, I was re-diagnosed as I am a survivor of childhood trauma with male and female dissociative identities. I have been in twice a week psychodynamic trauma recovery therapy ever since.

See Childhood Trauma Survivor Misdiagnosed as Transsexual with Gender Dysphoria at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,176195.0.html

There are a whole host of biologic conditions and psychological disorders that can cause gender dysphoria, from hormonal imbalances to Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD). Transition is only the way the transgender are treated for the condition. I have been moderator of the bigender forum at www.bigender.net since the community began in 2010. Several MAAB members have come and gone who had positive results controlling their dysphoria with testosterone, through HRT and natural production with body building. I also remember at least one FAAB whose estrogen/birth control similarly eliminated her dyphoria. The actual protocol depends on the underlying cause of your gender dyphoria.