Meh, as long as I keep hearing women with deeper pitch than mine I'm not going to worry. Now, resonance is another matter.

Quote from: Natalie on December 16, 2014, 04:13:39 AM
Your voice does not change during HRT. This should be an axiom by now. It's simply not medically possible. Claiming it does defies known medicine and is a delusional belief about the self typically used as a validation of one's femininity due to insecurities. Furthermore, it's extremely hard to get a person having delusions to admit it because it seems so real to them. Is suspect you are suffering from a type of counterfactual overconfidence barrier where you are having more confidence in the accuracy of your own judgement than is reasonable and imaging an outcome that never actually happened. There is no empirical evidence that a male to female transsexual's voice changes during HRT or gets "softer." The endogenous change here is usually due to one "trying" to sound more feminine so they conclude that it was the "hormones" that changed their voice or they make up elaborate stories to justify their erroneous belief that it "changed." There is nothing positive about spreading misinformation. You are, however, free to believe in delusions just as much as the next person, but there is no need to make mendacious claims that do not exist in reality.

Tone aside, I very much agree with this post.  Testosterone enlarges the vocal chords at puberty, enabling males to reach lower notes and have the deep chest resonance we work so hard to get rid of.  Fortunately, we still have the capacity to limit the resonance and to raise our pitch to reasonably female levels.

So it's more likely that while HRT is working on your body, you're also working on your female presentation -- including voice.  Learning to do different things with your voice takes time and so it could appear that HRT had something to do with it.  But the reality is that you've exercised your vocal chords and have learned to use typically female speech patterns along the way.  So if your voice is softer, then congratulate yourself.  You've put in the work to achieve that.

In high school I sang bass in the choir, but I haven't been able to reach those lower notes for years.  Why?  Because I'm not regularly stretching my vocal chords to allow them to do that.  And reaching higher notes works the same way.  Repetition, exercise, repetition, repeat.

The reality is that having a more female sounding voice takes work...more work for some than others.  And it's not helpful to give people hope that HRT will reduce the amount work needed to reach a passable voice.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on December 16, 2014, 12:44:08 PM
Exactly. If E actually changes your voice. Then that must mean that I AM an anthro squirrel. 

E will NOT have an effect of your voice. Some people enjoy lying to themselves to make them feel good. The ONLY thing that will change your voice is a LOT of serious work and practice. Anything else is a myth.

I am going to disagree with this because of what I mentioned previously - the informed consent paperwork I signed which mentioned voice changes and Jenny's comment about E thinning the vocal cords after she did her surgery with Yeson.

Of course I don't think the change is dramatic but I do think there is a small change. Probably not enough to give you a female voice but enough to make it just slightly easier to speak in a female range.

Quote from: ImagineKate on December 16, 2014, 08:54:07 PM
Jenny's comment about E thinning the vocal cords after she did her surgery with Yeson.

Yes...after she had surgery. That is NOT the same thing at all.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on December 16, 2014, 09:00:18 PM
Yes...after she had surgery. That is NOT the same thing at all.

Why not? What would cause E to thin the vocal cords after surgery but not before?

E does not thin your vocal cords, full stop.

Of course it doesn't change your vocal chords!!!
But as your body changes so does the timbre of your voice! because of what it is echoing through.
Albeit to varying and always minor degrees

Think of the difference between a quality violin and a rubbish one played by the same musican

Or a French horn made of tin compared to an identical one made of brass

They're only slightly different sounds, but they are different even if they are essentially unnoticeable

Yes, my voice did change during HRT

Whether or not it actually changed because of HRT, I guess that will remain one of life's big mysteries o:

Estrogen can cause changes in voice.

Specifically, post-menopausal women can have occurrences of menopausal vocal syndrome, and some menstruating women can have premenstrual vocal syndrome which includes lowered vocal intensity, vocal fatigue, a decreased range with loss of the high tones and a loss of vocal quality. In all cases where this occurred, it was successfully alleviated with estrogen therapy plus vitamins.

So yes, there are verified cases where estrogen can impact the vocal cords. Now, as to what can and cannot happen in transgender MtFs on HRT, that's an open question. Lacking actual data, I won't say it cannot happen at all but anecdotal experiences suggest that if it occurs, it is rare, and any such change would be small.

Actual studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10498059

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0034-72992008000400002&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

My voice also dramatically changed since being on hormones but  it wasn't because of HRT. I began playing with my voice and eventually over time it learnt to fit into a female tone. I find it really hard to access my old voice but after singing along to Metalica for a while it can become male like.

Quote from: Jo-is-amazing on December 15, 2014, 08:46:09 PM
E will change your voice.
But not in the way your hoping for.

Well I didn't mean a big change my voice still sounds like a boy if I don't make any effort, but the pitch changed to some degree.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on December 16, 2014, 12:44:08 PM
Exactly. If E actually changes your voice. Then that must mean that I AM an anthro squirrel. 

E will NOT have an effect of your voice. Some people enjoy lying to themselves to make them feel good. The ONLY thing that will change your voice is a LOT of serious work and practice. Anything else is a myth.

Lying? I hope that was the answer, but it's hard to explain such rare cases.

I met a dude which voice would soften and get higher pitch with the effect of testosterone, now he sounds silly, like a cartoony character :3, it's got insane.

And if it affects your organs then there must be a difference... even if small... because I didn't actually mean you'd sound like a woman, but just softer and a lil increase of pitch, not like a big change, say a semitone.

Quote from: Jo-is-amazing on December 16, 2014, 09:23:28 PM
Of course it doesn't change your vocal chords!!!
But as your body changes so does the timbre of your voice! because of what it is echoing through.
Albeit to varying and always minor degrees

Think of the difference between a quality violin and a rubbish one played by the same musican

Or a French horn made of tin compared to an identical one made of brass

They're only slightly different sounds, but they are different even if they are essentially unnoticeable

Heh... X3 damn I love this answer, just what I mean XD same context XD

Quote from: LizMarie on December 17, 2014, 03:19:49 AM
Estrogen can cause changes in voice.

Specifically, post-menopausal women can have occurrences of menopausal vocal syndrome, and some menstruating women can have premenstrual vocal syndrome which includes lowered vocal intensity, vocal fatigue, a decreased range with loss of the high tones and a loss of vocal quality. In all cases where this occurred, it was successfully alleviated with estrogen therapy plus vitamins.

So yes, there are verified cases where estrogen can impact the vocal cords. Now, as to what can and cannot happen in transgender MtFs on HRT, that's an open question. Lacking actual data, I won't say it cannot happen at all but anecdotal experiences suggest that if it occurs, it is rare, and any such change would be small.

Actual studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10498059

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0034-72992008000400002&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

This answer is quite serious, yeah I'd love to see some research. Everything seems to be from subjectivity, and it seems that everyone takes for granted that the way the sounds are made come only from your vocal chords, they don't change, but other things related will, personally I'd check for the size of the lower torax muscles, that got smaller since estrogen, they can make echoes with the air in your lungs (musician point of view) which creates a lowering effect, also they are the ones who put strength in the air inside.

Doppler effect maybe??? maybe if the size of your throat decreases a bit the air must get out faster, that would cause a small barely noticeable increase in pitch.

  There's no way I could possibly say for sure whether HRT has affected my voice.  Much in the way I can't say for sure which things and to what extent T-blocker vs E have effected any other changes in my body, and also much in the way that laser/electrolysis/HRT have been varying percentages responsible for body hair changes and when.  There's far too many variables.

  I know my baseline voice is different now when I'm not trying but I've also been having speech therapy for a while.  I can still push my voice down to approximately how I was speaking before but it doesn't settle there anymore.  Talking with my old voice while looking in a mirror is definitely unsettling!

Personally, it hasn't changed at all, and I've been on mones for 5-6 years started at 17. But my voice was passable before my transition, tho its in the lower range for females. A funny story, I suddenly remembered a good friends phone number 3 years ago that I haven't seen since grade 6, he didn't know about my transition and I called him, he said I sound completely the same as I was in grade 6 lol.

FYI: I'm IS.

I'm 35, and I've noticed it's changed, but not my normal everyday voice.  I used to do goofy voices, and I've found I can't do voices I used to. 

Now I don't have an pretruding Adam's apple.  But I find weird that, at work in a shirt and pants, people think I'm a guy.  In my street clothes, people think I'm female.  I was recently told by a complete stranger that I look and sound androgynous.  Which could explain why I can't gender my own voice.

I've tried two apps that tells you pitch, but since I've always fluctuate my voice when I speek, I can't get a clear understanding of my voice.

Did you actually read the data before posting it? Menopausal voice syndrome causes women's voice to "deepen" due to a decreased amount of estrogen which is the same thing that happens to female to male transsexuals. Instead of make-believe, why don't we live over here in reality for a change?

Check out pages 36-38 in the standards of care V7 edition for WPATH's medical treatment of transgender & transsexual people. They have developed lots of practices and knowledge over many decades and even they don't mention any physical effects of a voice change for MtF patients. http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=1351&pk_association_webpage=4655

If you went through puberty and had the voice change drop occur then HRT sadly isn't going to really do anything for your voice other than have some very small minor effects if that. After 1 year of HRT I still sound pretty close to my pre HRT male voice and my hormone levels have been in the typical female ranges ever since I was 3 months on HRT but it's much harder to go that low since I spend most of my time in my female vocal range now that I live authentically and use my female voice every day all day. Testosterone widens, lengthens and thickens the vocal cords and this will never go away from being on HRT alone, you can surgically alter your vocal cords to give you a more feminine natural voice but even that is up to a lot of luck. I've heard good results and bad results from voice surgeries but at least Yeson has the best results I've heard of so far but it isn't cheap to have done either. This is where transgender men are lucky in that when they start testosterone their voice does change from being on HRT as their vocal cords are experiencing male puberty and start to widen, lengthen and thicken just like ours did when we went through our unwanted male puberty.

It sucks that we have to physically work on our voices unless you were lucky to have puberty blocked or that you already had a very androgynous voice to begin with. I have yet to meet a trans woman in person that had to go through the unwanted male puberty who did not have to work on their voice to get it to sound feminine. I have meet two lucky trans women who were able to start on T blockers in their early teens and they really didn't have to do much to get their voice to sound really good, and I'm happy for them that they don't have to go through the voice part of transitioning. Working on your voice is not fun, it's lots of work and many months to years of work, it's embarrassing, depressing when you feel like you aren't making progress and worse of all when you are out in public and your voice just isn't there then you run a much higher risk of getting clocked just because of that alone. Even when you get your voice to where it sounds good and somewhat comfortable to use, your old voice is still right there just waiting for a slip up to happen or you catch a cold and have your old voice back, or you cough >.<

This is why I tell every trans woman I meet that hasn't started HRT to start working on their voice right away if they plan on transitioning.

Quote from: Megumi on December 21, 2014, 01:53:06 PM
Check out pages 36-38 in the standards of care V7 edition for WPATH's medical treatment of transgender & transsexual people. They have developed lots of practices and knowledge over many decades and even they don't mention any physical effects of a voice change for MtF patients. http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=1351&pk_association_webpage=4655

If you went through puberty and had the voice change drop occur then HRT sadly isn't going to really do anything for your voice other than have some very small minor effects if that. After 1 year of HRT I still sound pretty close to my pre HRT male voice and my hormone levels have been in the typical female ranges ever since I was 3 months on HRT but it's much harder to go that low since I spend most of my time in my female vocal range now that I live authentically and use my female voice every day all day. Testosterone widens, lengthens and thickens the vocal cords and this will never go away from being on HRT alone, you can surgically alter your vocal cords to give you a more feminine natural voice but even that is up to a lot of luck. I've heard good results and bad results from voice surgeries but at least Yeson has the best results I've heard of so far but it isn't cheap to have done either. This is where transgender men are lucky in that when they start testosterone their voice does change from being on HRT as their vocal cords are experiencing male puberty and start to widen, lengthen and thicken just like ours did when we went through our unwanted male puberty.

It sucks that we have to physically work on our voices unless you were lucky to have puberty blocked or that you already had a very androgynous voice to begin with. I have yet to meet a trans woman in person that had to go through the unwanted male puberty who did not have to work on their voice to get it to sound feminine. I have meet two lucky trans women who were able to start on T blockers in their early teens and they really didn't have to do much to get their voice to sound really good, and I'm happy for them that they don't have to go through the voice part of transitioning. Working on your voice is not fun, it's lots of work and many months to years of work, it's embarrassing, depressing when you feel like you aren't making progress and worse of all when you are out in public and your voice just isn't there then you run a much higher risk of getting clocked just because of that alone. Even when you get your voice to where it sounds good and somewhat comfortable to use, your old voice is still right there just waiting for a slip up to happen or you catch a cold and have your old voice back, or you cough >.<

This is why I tell every trans woman I meet that hasn't started HRT to start working on their voice right away if they plan on transitioning.

My voice sounds female and I am not on HRT. I do slightly raise my larynx, an habit I am trying to overcome so I relax and sound less childish. But I can't make a male voice no matter how much I try, even though sometimes I wish could just so it would be a little easier. I do realize how lucky I am and I probably have low T as I am 18 and have no libido. But it is not easy to be this feminine and presenting as a guy.

That said I think HRT may effect voice but it is minimal and very unlikely for people, even ourselves, to notice. HRT may dry up the vocal cords so they end up vibrating slightly faster resulting in a slightly higher pitch but again it is really minimal. Only practice or surgery can change fundamentally how one sounds and is therefore gendered by the sound of the voice.