I am pretty femme/metro as far as guys go. And for a long time I thought I was a girl. But although I loved putting together femme outfits, I always felt like I was dressing someone else; styling someone else's hair. I didn't really recognize myself in the mirror. Nowadays I am binding more and more. I realize that many of my hangups during sex were about how we interacted rather than who I was with. But I feel like I should have known! I should have had more indications than a really hardcore tomboy phase when I was a kid. Granted I had really conformist friends who shamed me for doing anything weird, and I spent years trying to fit in with them or fearing their scrutiny. Anyways, slowly I'm getting more comfortable being seen as masculine, and I can't really help it, I'm just drawn to presenting masculine, I feel a serious need to flatten my chest, and I like my male name (which I haven't told many people about) better than my birth name. So like, ->-bleeped-<-'s getting real. I just... I mean... come on, shouldn't I have known?? And did anyone else just not know??

*raises hand*

I feel like a complete idiot, frankly.  I have no excuse.  I'm a queer person from a liberal, mostly secular family, I've known that transguys existed since I was in my early teens-- and didn't recognize my gender dysphoria until I was 34.  There are Reasons, but none that seem sufficient to explain the difference between my experience and the textbook "trans narrative." Looking back, there have been several times in my life when I was on the cusp of the realization, but I always shied away from it.  Now, there are countless ways I look back and identify my gender dysphoria, constant annoyances in my life that I recognize as stemming from my gender incongruity.  But that's not how I explained it at the time.

Do you have any ideas why you didn't discover this until relatively late?  Do you think it was mostly because you were trying to fit in with conformist friends?  For me the "felt like I was dressing someone else," idea was a big part of it-- I'd gotten so used to evaluating myself in the third person that I didn't even recognize that I didn't feel like myself.  Not only the way I presented, but even the way I evaluated my gender presentation, was a defense mechanism instead of an expression of my inner truth. 

I thought I was a boy (as in DMAB) when I was a little kid, but after puberty I assumed I had just been delusional. It never occurred to me that I could have been right, it was inconceivable. I didn't act like a boy much either before or after I realized my body was female. My gender expression was (and still is) really mixed up. For example... I wore skirts. Frilly colorful ones. While climbing trees and getting into play-fights and playing boy roles in pretend games. I can't really look back and point to things that make it obvious even now. I knew something was seriously wrong, especially once I started being actively suicidal over it, but not what or why.

I can't imagine anything short of someone I trusted sitting me down and patiently explaining all the possibilities could have helped me understand myself any sooner, if even that. And *that* was as likely to happen as an angel coming down from heaven and gifting me with a real penis is likely to happen now.

If I had come out as trans to my parents, they would have done far worse than just disown me and kick me out. So I can't say I'm exactly sorry for it taking so long, I'm not sure I would have survived any other way.

Thanks Bran, I'm so glad for your response. I relate to so much of what you were saying: getting used to this third-person existence instead of expressing myself. I'd wanted to play with gender expression, but I didn't think it was appropriate if I was into men, so I didn't; and then I got my first trigger crush on a girl and something snapped and I cut my hair and I bought androgynous clothes and it seemed to come all at once.

I had been really used to blaming myself for stuff (though I'm working had to reverse this): I thought I was sooo fat, when really it was my curves that bothered me; and then I worried that I wasn't accepting my body enough, so I blamed it on being a bad feminist; etc. I knew something needed to change but I didn't know what.

I'm perceived as really gay by friends/others, but I'm not a gay woman, though it's easier to think that than it is to openly question gender. So I'm stuck in a weird place, identity-wise and in how I want to be perceived. I feel like the weirdo/"freak" that was always inside me is coming out after trying to hide him.

Hopes this clarifies.

Pixie thanks for sharing. I'm amazed at the people who have someone caring ask them outright "Have you ever considered...". I wish I'd had that to make things easier; evidently I'm very good at pretending.

Quote from: DangerTom on December 20, 2014, 12:48:40 AM
Pixie thanks for sharing. I'm amazed at the people who have someone caring ask them outright "Have you ever considered...". I wish I'd had that to make things easier; evidently I'm very good at pretending.

Does that ever actually happen??? I find it hard to believe, honestly. But I grew up in a very conservative and religious family, so the only likely conversation would have involved "reparative therapy" or a no-contact nunnery at best. I love stories about accepting and loving families, but it reads like fairy tales to me.

I didn't develop a strong distaste for being female until I hit puberty (and my body became more female in all the wrong ways). However I've never wanted to become male so I didn't think I could be trans* because I'd never heard of anything outside the gender binary (decades ago). I just thought I was weird (in a good way) for not associating with the foibles of either sex. Looking back there are lots of indications of gender dysphoria sprinkled throughout my life: I changed my name to something gender-neutral 3 decades ago, my extreme discomfort with a dress uniform for work, my lack of any maternal/paternal feeling, my tendency to pick up male speech and mannerisms even while I prefer long hair, my feeling of surprise whenever I look at my female body in the mirror which doesn't match kinesthetic feeling I have of moving in a semi-male body.

It was only about 2 months ago that I first heard of someone transitioning to a more neutral agender state. That clicked immediately and now I'm looking into getting the horrid chest lumps removed.

Quote from: Pixie on December 20, 2014, 12:55:10 AM
Does that ever actually happen??? I find it hard to believe, honestly. But I grew up in a very conservative and religious family, so the only likely conversation would have involved "reparative therapy" or a no-contact nunnery at best. I love stories about accepting and loving families, but it reads like fairy tales to me.

I've seen some videos/read some blog posts where someone is told by a significant other that they might be gay or trans for the first time, and then they consider it. I know, my family would never do that either, but it happens to mythical other people with mythically supportive families.

I think I have most of you beat. I realized when I was 54. I grew up in conservative, working class Michigan. Only gay person I knew was my cousin. Never knew or even knew of any cross dressers let alone trans people. Then I moved to a major metropolitan city, like Superman,... uh, no. Went to college, got married, raised a child. Envied women's clothing. Did all kinds of gender-bending things. Still... no... clue. Felt like a sham, so I never stood up for myself, but didn't know why I felt that way. Thought, as many people do that trans people were like Ru Paul or that one princess in Shrek 2. Finally figured it out when I researched it because of a mentally Ill trans client when I worked in mental health. My wife thinks it came out of the blue, she's as clueless, but willfully clueless, as I was. She thinks I just decided one day that it would be cool to "become" a woman. She doesn't understand that I always was. Neither did I.

Quote from: DangerTom on December 20, 2014, 01:10:49 AM
I've seen some videos/read some blog posts where someone is told by a significant other that they might be gay or trans for the first time, and then they consider it. I know, my family would never do that either, but it happens to mythical other people with mythically supportive families.

I have a really supportive family and friens but I can't imagine any of them suggesting that. I don't think I would even do that because it would feel like crossing a line.
On topic, I am still young but I didn't always know and even during puberty I didn't know even though I knew about gender identity and I knew I liked/disliked certain things. I definitely had the dressing someone else up feeling, I wore alternative clothing and dressed up like a fairy or a pixie. That felt a little better then dressing like a girl strangely.

Quote from: DangerTom on December 19, 2014, 10:52:44 PM
And did anyone else just not know??

Had no idea for 50 years.

Quote from: DangerTom on December 20, 2014, 12:45:10 AM
Thanks Bran, I'm so glad for your response. I relate to so much of what you were saying: getting used to this third-person existence instead of expressing myself. I'd wanted to play with gender expression, but I didn't think it was appropriate if I was into men, so I didn't; and then I got my first trigger crush on a girl and something snapped and I cut my hair and I bought androgynous clothes and it seemed to come all at once.

I had been really used to blaming myself for stuff (though I'm working had to reverse this): I thought I was sooo fat, when really it was my curves that bothered me; and then I worried that I wasn't accepting my body enough, so I blamed it on being a bad feminist; etc. I knew something needed to change but I didn't know what.

I'm perceived as really gay by friends/others, but I'm not a gay woman, though it's easier to think that than it is to openly question gender. So I'm stuck in a weird place, identity-wise and in how I want to be perceived. I feel like the weirdo/"freak" that was always inside me is coming out after trying to hide him.

Hopes this clarifies.

*laughs* The body stuff!  I relate so much.  Not liking my breasts and thinking it was because of their shape, their size, the attention they got-- then realizing it was because they were *breasts*.  Trying to go in for the body positivity stuff and realizing that I actually felt better when I was fatter, because I looked more androgynous.  I remember being about 12 when I had the disappointed realization that I would never pass as a man, and having that be a kind of constant drumbeat in the back of my head: "You'll never pass as a man, so you better learn how to be an acceptable woman."  Didn't even occur to me that most women don't think like that. The irony of going hyper-femme and havign everybody around me think I had this awesome personal style when, really, it was all a choreographed performance.  Realizing that, though I was bi, relationships with straight men were impossible because they were treating me like a woman-- thinking "I'd really like him better if I was a man."  And I thought it was a feminism thing!

Some of my work is with kids, and every so often I'll hear one of them say "I really wish I was a boy" or "I wish I was a girl."  I always make sure to reflect back at them some version of: "Do you, really? Because that would be OK."  It seems to be garden variety gender role irritation for all of them who've mentioned it.  But I also know a couple of young people I'm pretty sure are some variety of trans, and I haven't found a way to ask them about it.  If it's not on their radar, it would really freak them out. 

The more I look back the more I see those times I "almost figured it out" ...age 8, age 17.. finally at age 32 it all makes sense and I've discovered the term Trans Guy and embraced it for myself. I'm happier in myself for it (though more susceptable to triggers now that I see my dysphoria for what it is etc) and firmly on the journey. It's all too easy to beat yourself up for missing those clues as a kid, but peer pressure, family expectations and in my case just what I learned as factual science from a very early age all make it hard to see past your AAB gender.

Missed the cues that were there for roughly 38 years. Although now that I have finally managed to connect the dots I remember a horrible sleepless night I had when I was about 24 or 25, torturing myself with the thought "omg, what if I'm trans*"?

To Start off with I am MTF.

The only recollection of my one great grandfather was him calling me she and my response was "I'm a boy". When I was young I liked playing with toy soldiers and guns. When I was in secondary school I liked rough and tumble sports (playing not watching).

When I was 7 or 8 a friend of mine mentioned that a transgendered person moved in to the small village that I grew up near. My thoughts at the time were "why would someone want to do that". Unfortunately I didn't have someone to sit me down and explain things to me nor the resources to research the topic. This stuck with me most of my life until maybe 10 years ago when a friend came out as transgendered. I reacted poorly when I found out, I didn't want to hang around he anymore. I believe that it was looking into a mirror that I didn't want to see. Because of the reaction that I had I tried very hard to overcome my feelings and learned more about the trans community. I still hadn't accepted that I was trans at that time.

When I was nearing puberty playing with a (different) friend, I would most often play the damsel in distress role. After hitting puberty I would like to wear women's underwear and clothing, I hated myself for doing so but it felt so good. I thought for the longest time that this was just a sexual perversion up until close to 2 years ago. 2 years ago before realizing that I was trans, I wanted so so much to find a source of female hormones so I could grow at least small breasts. I also wanted to crazy glue a prosthetic vagina to myself and allow it to fuze with my skin. All of this will thinking to myself "I am not trans" and discovering that I was likely trans stopped me from doing something stupid. When I was playing online games and talking with people I found that I related better to women then I did men.

In the end I think it was more refusing to accept that I am trans then not truly knowing for me.

Quote from: Bran on December 21, 2014, 11:54:08 AM
*laughs* The body stuff!  I relate so much.  Not liking my breasts and thinking it was because of their shape, their size, the attention they got-- then realizing it was because they were *breasts*.  Trying to go in for the body positivity stuff and realizing that I actually felt better when I was fatter, because I looked more androgynous.  I remember being about 12 when I had the disappointed realization that I would never pass as a man, and having that be a kind of constant drumbeat in the back of my head: "You'll never pass as a man, so you better learn how to be an acceptable woman."  Didn't even occur to me that most women don't think like that. The irony of going hyper-femme and havign everybody around me think I had this awesome personal style when, really, it was all a choreographed performance.  Realizing that, though I was bi, relationships with straight men were impossible because they were treating me like a woman-- thinking "I'd really like him better if I was a man."  And I thought it was a feminism thing!

Some of my work is with kids, and every so often I'll hear one of them say "I really wish I was a boy" or "I wish I was a girl."  I always make sure to reflect back at them some version of: "Do you, really? Because that would be OK."  It seems to be garden variety gender role irritation for all of them who've mentioned it.  But I also know a couple of young people I'm pretty sure are some variety of trans, and I haven't found a way to ask them about it.  If it's not on their radar, it would really freak them out.

aaahhh duuudee... all the yes... :-P

I was also complemented a lot on my personal style, which evolved out of feeling like, bored I guess? with how I looked. I was forever trying on crazy things because I just didn't like how I looked, generally, and didn't know how to fix it. I'd look around and think, "that girl does her hair this way, it looks cool, maybe i'll try it on me!" and then it'd look all wrong on me. Meanwhile wishing I could pull off men's jeans. And there was a while I wanted to lose weight but couldn't bring myself to try, like I wanted to want to lose weight more than actually wanting to. So I finally forced myself to and I still hated my body! It was so frustrating to work on being healthy and body acceptance but not be able to fix what was wrong. I dunno, but binding helps.

As for how to talk to kids about it, there are probably some resources online. The best thing you can do for any kids is tell them they're okay the way they are. I mean high school will undo all of that, but it's worth a shot...

Quote from: NathanielM on December 20, 2014, 04:46:04 PM
I wore alternative clothing and dressed up like a fairy or a pixie. That felt a little better then dressing like a girl strangely.

I did that too, but I can't claim it as an indicator because I kind of sort of still do. At least, when I'm not too depressed for it. My next sewing project will involve making a rainbow-colored skirt out of tulle and ribbon, and probably either bright green or rainbow colored wings. And yea, I know, I'm totally not helping myself pass as a guy doing this. But ... I will look so much more awesome as a rainbow pixie now that I no longer have breasts.

Dressing in costume as a teen was a thing though, it helped me avoid having to dress like a girl. And  it meant I could also dress up as a boy and no one would hurt me for it because I was always dressing up in crazy things so it didn't mean anything. Not that I always did pixie costumes, I pretty much did anything that caught my fancy, but pixies are totally gender-neutral. No one realizes there are boy pixies because they look just like girl pixies. So I could slip into a pixie costume and be myself safely, it was one of the very rare moments I felt okay. It helped me keep my secret a lot longer than I otherwise could have.

If I had known at a younger age and if anyone had asked me if I was trans, or really a boy, I would have hit them for it and refused to talk to them ever again. It just wasn't safe. Even as a young kid I knew better than to endanger myself by telling anyone. Adults weren't to be trusted, they ALL talked to each other so telling one risked them all finding out.

I was aware of how I wanted to live, but was unaware of actually having a real possibility at transition until just a few years ago. Not sure if that counts or not. So...


Yes and no?

I didn't know what a transsexual was for the longest time, and when I did become aware of the phenomena, I never seriously considered the possiblilty that I might be one.  I did, however, seriously consider a lot of other possibilities.

So, yeah....I did "not know" for a long time.  I recollect it was in the early-to-mid-80's before the epiphany occurred in an all-day presentation/seminar at a conference I was attending.  The presentation was on gender dysphoria, and a professor from one of the institutes included a dog & pony show as a part of his presentation.  But "knowing" and doing are 2 different things....didn't commence transition for about another decade. 

I definitely did not know until recently, this past year or so. To be honest, I think a lot of my reason for not knowing is attached to the fact... I had other things that were blowing up in my face that I needed to focus on.

My mother was a raging alcoholic and my father is an immature man who acts like an 8 year old boy, spitballs and all. My mom would take out her feelings - anger, depression, violence - on me, and my dad did nothing to help me. I took on the role of the adult of the family in order to protect my brother. My mother died when I was 16 and my dad promptly got in a relationship with another incredibly abusive woman who stalked and threatened me over the cell phone (god knows how she got my number!) Thanks to this... I had other things in my mind. I also have severe anxiety disorders and depression, likely a cause of my childhood issues, but these left me stressed to the point of minor hallucination.

Thanks to this, I had to... get out of that situation to actually start understanding myself. I didn't figure out I was asexual, had anxiety/depression issues that NEEDED treatment to help my suicidal thoughts, and that I am a transman until a good year after I left my hometown to pursue my own career path.

Looking back, there was definitely some signs! No wonder I was never very happy with the way I looked and uncomfortable with puberty and my chest and just assuming it was cuz I was 'ugly' or something... haha. Had other things that were most important to me at the time, I guess! But I feel so much more in my skin now that I am looking at myself more objectively this year.