Quote from: Rachael on October 23, 2007, 07:49:38 AM
therapy isnt always needed, weather im IS or not, hey, technically, i might need MORE counceling? thought of that?
born mixed gender, corrected to male, punished for femininity and raised male in an all boys school for 16 years... youd think id be nuts?
NOT EVERY TRANSITIONING PERSON is unsure of thier gender, a LOT are positive, and just go through therapy as a step that must be done...
when im sobbing my eyes out over that thing between my legs, dont you DARE tell me im not m2f.... i have the SAME crap to deal with, and it hurts JUST as bloody much... so dont you dare tell me i cant speak for the m2f community...
R



(and i like this avitar)

Your body has a lot more potential as far as being female than any other MtF.
I'm not saying, "don't speak for the MtF."  I'm saying, "stop acting like you're a normal MtF and anything that happens to you can happen to anyone else."  All you're doing is getting people's hopes up and then those hopes will be flushed once it doesn't happen.

um, well whats happened to me has happened for a lot of 'normal' m2fs...
my genes dont really mean as much as you think...
some physiological differences, but as far as hrt is concered, its fairly similar for my age to non IS trans folk...
If you like i can wear a brand identifying myself as a genetic freak who must be taken with a pinch of salt...? or maybe we should have a serparate forum so we dont confuse you poor 'REAL m2fs'
R

Quote from: Rachael on October 23, 2007, 08:19:36 AM
um, well whats happened to me has happened for a lot of 'normal' m2fs...
my genes dont really mean as much as you think...
some physiological differences, but as far as hrt is concered, its fairly similar for my age to non IS trans folk...
If you like i can wear a brand identifying myself as a genetic freak who must be taken with a pinch of salt...? or maybe we should have a serparate forum so we dont confuse you poor 'REAL m2fs'
R

I don't care what you are, I'm fine with anything, it's the person inside and not the outward appearance that matters.
But when you advertise obvious differences and then act as if those are normal, despite all the dominant literature published by doctors and other transsexuals both educated and/or more experienced in the community than you saying otherwise, then you're not only being disrespectful to them but also to the people who you could be leading along only to let them have dashed hopes.
The entire point of this, that you're blatantly disregarding, is that you've made it clear that you intersexed, which means you've had different hormonal actions in your body for your entire life, specifically before and even after puberty from males.  You then expect everyone to act as if your case is normal.  That's great for you, but calling a 1976 Chevy a 2001 Ferarri just doesn't work, you've got to realize that using yourself as an example for other MtF isn't applicable.  If you'd like, use yourself for others in your predicament, but don't let some kids get on here thinking they can have robust chests and flaring hips by taking a few pills, it not only leads to risks of self medication and/or overdosing on medication but also the HIGH possibility of false hopes which will lead, inevitably, to the downfall of reality which will then fall heavily on the shoulders of someone ALREADY burdened enough by the reality of her situation and how society takes it and a self-identity crisis.  You getting kudos off falsely identifying your exact situation with others isn't worth the potential and very likely consequences.  I accept you as MtF in the sense that you're in an outwardly appearing male body but are female on the inside.  I accept that you're struggling and I'm not goign to pull some GLB bs and say that you're not in the same boat as we are.  But I will say that you're not biologically identical or even similiar to the detailed map of a male body trying to do a u-turn, and that saying you are whilst boasting amazing results is as bad as any athlete taking steroids and then boasting amazing stats.

Quote from: redfish on October 23, 2007, 03:17:50 PM
no u

Mreow?

"WOOF, WOOF!"

Cindy

I'm still not on your list Kalt!

Hi Shanetastic

Your #1 in my books, fantastic Shanetastic

But there are some here that are not just 0nly out of harmony with the rest, they're just bloody not on the same planet!

Cindy

Quote from: cindybc on October 24, 2007, 02:49:12 AM
Hi Shanetastic

Your #1 in my books, fantastic Shanetastic

But there are some here that are not just 0nly out of harmony with the rest, they're just bloody not on the same planet!

Cindy

Haha I think you can find that anywhere you go Cindy!!!

Who IS from this planet after all!?!?

Hi  Shanetastic

Well I use to live on the planet X and it was to cold there so I moved to Mars. I am one of the lizard people. Geico Gecko is my cousin.

Cindy

Quote from: Kassandra on October 03, 2007, 09:19:19 PMIn a very great respect I lied to my wife and myself.  The marriage was founded on a lie that I maintained.  When I stopped living the lie, the marriage collapsed.  In that respect I feel I was a heel, a cheat.  I was not honest to myself or my wife.  And that devastated her.  If I have any real regrets about transitioning, it was that.  I am sorry for that.  And if there was a way to make that better I would do that.  No one deserves to be treated like that.

Girl, don't beat yourself up. If you lied to yourself, and actually believed it, that means you were deceived. I think you can hardly be blamed since the denial was imposed on you from early childhood when you had no defense or support. You're no less a victim of the lie than your wife, in fact you were oppressed by it much more than anyone, so I hope you can let go of the guilt and get on with healing, you have the rest of your life ahead of you.

Well, that's how I dealt with the same issue in my own life.

Quote from: kalt on October 23, 2007, 08:41:12 AM
If you'd like, use yourself for others in your predicament, but don't let some kids get on here thinking they can have robust chests and flaring hips by taking a few pills, it not only leads to risks of self medication and/or overdosing on medication but also the HIGH possibility of false hopes which will lead, inevitably, to the downfall of reality which will then fall heavily on the shoulders of someone ALREADY burdened enough by the reality of her situation and how society takes it and a self-identity crisis.  You getting kudos off falsely identifying your exact situation with others isn't worth the potential and very likely consequences.  I accept you as MtF in the sense that you're in an outwardly appearing male body but are female on the inside.  I accept that you're struggling and I'm not goign to pull some GLB bs and say that you're not in the same boat as we are.  But I will say that you're not biologically identical or even similiar to the detailed map of a male body trying to do a u-turn, and that saying you are whilst boasting amazing results is as bad as any athlete taking steroids and then boasting amazing stats.

for a start, younger m2fs can get 'robust chests and flaring hips from a few pills' TRY LOOKING AROUND NUBFACE...
leads to a risk of self med eh? well by the way, i started self medding as i couldnt get help, sometimes it needs to be done to survive, and i hate the way its deamonised in the ts community of perfect rulefollowers... surely we of all people can understand the NEED to do certain things...
please look at some m2fs... these high hopes HAPPEN... not in every case, no, but there are MANY 'younger' trans folk who get a LOT of change and become gorgeous and unreadable, and they dont start hrt at `14.... thats bs, because if so, every male would have a beard at 14. and you KNOW this isnt the case...
nope, i get my 'kudos' from giving my insight, and helping people, im bruitally honest, which is needed around here sometimes to kick this 'lack of reality' into touch, which is scarily common.
'outwardly apearing male body' <-- well, the only male bit left from those insignificalt pills is the penis... the rest of me is female
ive seen amazing results of hrt, in NON IS Folk, i wouldnt champion young transition if it didnt... the sooner you start hrt, the more amazing your change. you dont have to be prepubecent. or is... look around, hormones control a LOT in us, are you even on hrt kalt? what is the effect of your strenuous working out on your testosterone levels? i dont think YOUR the ideal m2f proponent either...
your certainly doing a good job of lowering everyones expectiations simply because you feel you wont get any change...
this entire topic seems to be a newbies ego trip into the community... why are you running a topic on young m2fs when you yourself arent in the best position literally or experience wise?
dont go to war with me kid, it can get bloody...
R

Quote from: cindybc on October 23, 2007, 10:47:20 PM
"WOOF, WOOF!"

Cindy

MEANIE!

Posted on: October 24, 2007, 09:50:59 AM

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Quote from: shanetastic on October 24, 2007, 01:56:15 AM
I'm still not on your list Kalt!

Gimme zeh stats!

Posted on: October 24, 2007, 09:51:26 AM

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Quote from: Rachael on October 24, 2007, 07:45:44 AM
for a start, younger m2fs can get 'robust chests and flaring hips from a few pills'

Yes, because there's millions of 8-10 yr old MtFs.

QuoteTRY LOOKING AROUND NUBFACE...

Ad hominem, FTW!

Quoteleads to a risk of self med eh? well by the way, i started self medding as i couldnt get help, sometimes it needs to be done to survive, and i hate the way its deamonised in the ts community of perfect rulefollowers... surely we of all people can understand the NEED to do certain things...

And we're supposed to listen to someone like you?

Quoteplease look at some m2fs... these high hopes HAPPEN...

I have.  Considering my personal experience happens to be backed by the literature of PROFESSIONALS, I trust you'll be able to support yours?

Quotenot in every case, no, but there are MANY 'younger' trans folk who get a LOT of change and become gorgeous and unreadable, and they dont start hrt at `14.... thats bs, because if so, every male would have a beard at 14. and you KNOW this isnt the case...

Your train of illogical conclusions is astounding.

Quotenope, i get my 'kudos' from giving my insight

As an intersexed individual to male to female individuals who don't share your body and don't have the bonuses you do.

Quoteim bruitally honest

Dillusional

Quoteive seen amazing results of hrt, in NON IS Folk

Once again, please provide some kind of support for this besides your word.

Quotethe sooner you start hrt, the more amazing your change.

As is general knowledge

Quoteyou dont have to be prepubecent. or is...

EVIDENCE!!!

Quoteare you even on hrt kalt? what is the effect of your strenuous working out on your testosterone levels? i dont think YOUR the ideal m2f proponent either...

Yes, I am, and I have absolutely no clue what this statement ment.

Quoteyour certainly doing a good job of lowering everyones expectiations simply because you feel you wont get any change...

No, I'm being honest and I'm asking you to not act like a kid.

Quotethis entire topic seems to be a newbies ego trip into the community... why are you running a topic on young m2fs when you yourself arent in the best position literally or experience wise?

Wow, you're full of it.
since when was this topic for MtFs only?  How is this topic full of egoo?  In fact, this entire SITE is about ego, and you're full of so much ego that you can't even keep a realistic approach.  You'd ratehr go bragging about your amazing results from self-medication and chance leading others to do the same thing instead of biting the bullet and saying, "I'm sorry, you're right."

Quotedont go to war with me kid, it can get bloody...

Bloody annoying, outrageous, like talking to a spoiled 8 year old.

Quote from: kalt on October 24, 2007, 09:03:09 AM

for a start, younger m2fs can get 'robust chests and flaring hips from a few pills'

QuoteYes, because there's millions of 8-10 yr old MtFs.

<-- uh, no

Quoteleads to a risk of self med eh? well by the way, i started self medding as i couldnt get help, sometimes it needs to be done to survive, and i hate the way its deamonised in the ts community of perfect rulefollowers... surely we of all people can understand the NEED to do certain things...

QuoteAnd we're supposed to listen to someone like you?

No, your supposed to look at reality

Quoteplease look at some m2fs... these high hopes HAPPEN...

QuoteI have.  Considering my personal experience happens to be backed by the literature of PROFESSIONALS, I trust you'll be able to support yours?

This research which is on how many young trans people? As my understanding follows, there is VERY little research on the effects of hrt on the young. 80% of research is on the over 30s...
if your telling me the 'a cup size smaller than natal women'
or 'that hrt cant change voice or facial hair', then im afraid your research is outdated.

Quotenope, i get my 'kudos' from giving my insight

As an intersexed individual to male to female individuals who don't share your body and don't have the bonuses you do.

Quoteim bruitally honest

QuoteDillusional

no need to decend to petty namecalling. Im honest, as anyone who knows me will say. you dont, and id thank you not to comment on my mental state or honesty...

Quoteive seen amazing results of hrt, in NON IS Folk

QuoteOnce again, please provide some kind of support for this besides your word.

look around kalt, you might see one or two examples  ...

Quoteyou dont have to be prepubecent. or is...

EVIDENCE!!!

QuoteNo, I'm being honest and I'm asking you to not act like a kid.

I honestly dont see how im acting like the child? your doing a fine job of destroying anyones hope of sucessfully passing as female from hrt. which is proven to make a lot of difference at a young age. read most young ts boards and hrt topics...

I dont want to argue with you kalt, its honestly boring, but your claiming im delusional, when your doing the exact polar of me...
and my being IS doesnt change things THAT MUCH, do your research properly. i dont care to be called 'special' 'different' or 'not like us' by  anyone.
R

Quote from: Rachael on October 24, 2007, 07:45:44 AM
the sooner you start hrt, the more amazing your change...

As far as I know, that's not proven whatsoever (unless you catch puberty changes). It's just one of those things "everyone knows..." but no one can point to any real evidence for.

We've all seen the threads on it. Someone posts "only the young get great results," and a dozen older TSs post back about their wonderful changes from HRT. I'd hate for older gals/guys to think HRT is a lost cause for them. It's not. FAR from it.

Look, I'm pretty old for this thread, being 43. But before HRT, The Public saw me as a guy. A year of HRT and they see me as a girl. At 6'2", without makeup ever, without frilly clothes. Not bragging, as I'm pretty darn homely and masculine in features, but HRT apparently worked well enough - even at my age - to offset those things.

There's always hope. Always.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on October 24, 2007, 03:51:38 PM

Look, I'm pretty old for this thread, being 43. But before HRT, The Public saw me as a guy. A year of HRT and they see me as a girl. At 6'2", without makeup ever, without frilly clothes. Not bragging, as I'm pretty darn homely and masculine in features, but HRT apparently worked well enough - even at my age - to offset those things.

There's always hope. Always.

~Kate~

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Kate and your beholder is biased.  From the pictures and everything else I've seen from you, you are beautiful in every way.

Cindi

Rachael, considering I'm the one with an ass. in health science, majoring in endocrinology, and currently have a career based around the health sciences, I'm fairly certain I'm more of an authority than you are on this subject.
Furthermore, you've made several claims which you've yet to back up.  Most specifically,
1) Intersexed transsexuals are biologically the same as non-intersexed transsexuals
and
2) There are 'plenty' of cases in which HRT has had astounding cases of robust chests and flaring hips on non-intersexed MtF transsexuals
and
3) Statements made by current professionals in the transsexual care industry such as, "expect to grow a cup size smaller than your mother/sister on average" and others are false.

I expect either an apology and a concession of your outragous statements, or undeniable proof that is not based off, "well I've met a few."

Would the two of you please stop it? Neither of you is really helping anyone.  I feel this thread itself has lost its purpose past page 3, and I know I haven't really done much about that, but you two bickering isn't helping this thread out either.  Sorry for my outburst but I am rather upset right now.

Quote from: Kat on October 24, 2007, 05:08:23 PM
Would the two of you please stop it? Neither of you is really helping anyone.  I feel this thread itself has lost its purpose past page 3, and I know I haven't really done much about that, but you two bickering isn't helping this thread out either.  Sorry for my outburst but I am rather upset right now.

Your hair looks amazing, seriously!^_^

And nope, this thread holds truer to it's purpose than McDonalds does to heart disease!

concede? no appologise? certainly not.
the term 'robust chest' and flaring hips is your phrase, i simply gave my measurements, which are by FAR within normal... infact i know curveyer 'normal' mtfs... 36B-30-38 ISNT that curvy...
the cupsize smaller one HAS been discounted as over cautious and generally aplicable to older transitioners in SOME cases...
carear in health sciences?
i thought you were just out of college and joining the marine reserves?
ive also studdied A&P and medical science prior to my current degree...
and intersex transitioners being different depents on the type of intersex condition, not all IS people have an easier time... you and your sources should already know this...
i agree, back on topic, this is tedious now... i wouldnt be upset if a mod delted all this...
R

Quote from: Rachael on October 24, 2007, 05:56:52 PM
concede? no appologise? certainly not.
the term 'robust chest' and flaring hips is your phrase

Dno't try to back out of it that way.  You did not simply give your measurements, I used that term and you then used it in your response.

Quotecarear in health sciences?
i thought you were just out of college and joining the marine reserves?

Think again, I'm a personal trainer who's well-certified and still a fulltime student.

You haven't proven anything, you haven't backed up your statements, and you haven't said anything that you can back up.