I am on low dose, and getting more femme than I really planned on. 

At ~38 I would not have expected this level of effectiveness would be an issue...  Dang youthfulness...  I'd trade with someone that wanted more bang for their buck if I could!

My parents whom I'd just assume not discuss any of this with have commented with the weight loss (but not muscle loss) and long hair I look elven...  LOL

I'm not upset by this per se, but have some concerns about being more visible than I want to be.  Particularly since I want to stay passing male, and not be GQ, though andro-male is fine.  And perhaps I am worrying more than I need to, my situation just has me aiming for the middle and trying to pass as male(ish).  Previous responses made me think I was worrying too much.  But any comments on maintaining the male illusion would be welcome.  As well as any warnings and things to avoid. 

Not sure how I'll manage the beach this summer, rashguard I geuss. 

E is being pretty generous to me in the chest and face department, and I am not sure if I have seen less than half, or more than half of what it is going to do to me.  If it is more than half I'm fine with my MTA goals, if not it might be pushing me further than I planned.  I feel a little stuck because I need the E for the mental benefits of suppressing the GD, but don't dread getting caught in a situation where I don't pass as either male or female.  (Well, I'd not mind except for the social/cultural impossibility of it for me in my current situation.  50-100 years from now I suspect it won't be an issue anymore, but that doesn't help me today!)

I'd be interested in wisdom from any non-binary or MTF folks that have about the tricky middle bit and leading up to it would be appreciated!

Also, awhile back I saw a great post/thread on HRT effects roughly by month, does anyone have a link to it?


- Jaded Jade

Well, being gq and using hair...I am small breasted and high dose so not too helpful.

JJ

3.5 years on low dose hrt, and counting!  Saying ymmv is a little unhelpful but it is true.  Similarly, working with your endo to find the minimum dose which achieves your emotional goals while minimising physical change is a worthwhile exercise. 

My issue has been the desire to keep pushing the envelope as higher E has an extremely positive impact on my feelings etc.  However while my job could handle this my marriage could not so will remain in the low dose andro family.

Am feeling a little jealous of your elven looks.  If only?!  What would help is the loss of weight, particularly if the weight gain occurred post hrt as it will have deposited fat in a female pattern.  Without wishing to be flippant you can have both breasts reduced, I did, but they will regrow and you may lose nipple sensitivity.  I think that  other than breast development, the biggest gender indicators are hair length/cut, brows, skin (beard removal), nails and makeup used.  Similarly if you have contrasts then signals may be received.  So zero body hair works better than say no beard, shaped brows, with hair free arms and legs plus a hairy chest.

I think that the only time I feel exposed due to breast development are when I am swimming or wearing a tight T shirt in a block color.  This summer I wore a swim shirt on the beach.  At work you may need to recut your pants and wear a more generous shirt with a compression vest, but this is no biggie.

If you are in a physical relationship, eyebrows may be raised at some point.

As you can tell I am an advocate of low dose and its removal of dysphoria and huge emotional benefit.

There are a number of threads or blogs on this and on other sites like Susans where folk give monthly updates, most are from full dose binary transitioners.  A good blog/thread would be that which Luna Nyan writes.  They are here on Susans.  But as you know YMMV

Safe travels

Aisla

I am in the boat where high E is intoxicatingly awesome, but makes me lose most of the interest in full transition, while causing it...  So I am in the middle.  Also, while technically I might go for it, it'd make me lose male function and also interferes with my ability to do engineer thinking.  I'm learning how to do that with E-brain, but not fully there yet.  So I can't do that...

I think the elven is more that I am thinner and leaner than I have been in a long time plus some femme that they have not caught onto yet...  With stress and holiday nonsense I am up ~10lbs but it appears to have shown up in a more female pattern than I would have expected.  So yay?

Eyebrows are groomed within the more andro side of the male range to avoid trouble.  I keep looking at the Tria 4x and am tempted to nuke the beard, but I'm kinda conflicted as to if losing the beard by 70-100% would be waaay to obvious if I still want to pass as male.  Though several MTA's have said I needn't worry about that...

On huge blessing is that my wife knows about what I am up to, and has been super supportive of me dealing with the GD thing. Heck she all but pushed me towards MTF because she was worried I was compromising for her benefit, though she was glad when I was adamantly MTA.  I know this is a rare level of support, and I feel super lucky.  So where ever possible I make sure I am doing everything I can to respect her interests and needs as well.


- Jaded Jade

Elvish = sooooo jealous!

I look a bit like a fair-skinned Uruk hai. RAWWR!! (On my bad days LOL)

JJ

A relationship like yours is well worth protecting.  Your comment re losing your engineering brain is interesting.  This is how I felt when I was on full transition dosages before I realised that I was non binary.  Apparently the brain does adjust over time do if you take it slowly you should be fine.  Loss of function is a pain ..I know ar which exact dosage of E and spiro when everything stops do am keeping just below this level

Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 06, 2015, 08:43:28 PM
Elvish = sooooo jealous!

I look a bit like a fair-skinned Uruk hai. RAWWR!! (On my bad days LOL)

Unfortunately an elvish look is also aspirational for me.  Perhaps if I lose a lot of weight?  But there again probably not.  Still I am an elf on the inside.

Safe travels

Aisla

Quote from: Aisla on January 06, 2015, 09:52:01 PM
Your comment re losing your engineering brain is interesting.  This is how I felt when I was on full transition dosages before I realised that I was non binary.  Apparently the brain does adjust over time do if you take it slowly you should be fine.  Loss of function is a pain ..I know ar which exact dosage of E and spiro when everything stops do am keeping just below this level

To get a bit mystic on it, normally I think like water and stone, with high E I think like air and fire, completely different, but once I figure it out a bit I can solve the same problems.  The shapes and order of the solutions are just a bit different.  Exactly in the middle I can do a bit of all four, but with greater difficulty on each.  If that makes sense.

I am suspecting maybe I just need more optimal ways of thinking when in the middle. 

At the current levels loss of function is not a problem, and having an adaptogen or non-T male function booster helps allot.  Plenty of OTC options for that, but I am not sure where the TOS line is for naming them...


- Jaded Jade

JJ,

I think you might be referring to he thread in my sig.  I update it every 3-6 months depending on what's happening - usually after blood work/endo appointments.

Low dose is trickier to manage compared to transitioning doses as the aim is to get maximum relief from GD whilst minimising the changes.  Personally, I'm running a very fine line - I have no beard to grow as a fall back so my dosages need to be managed carefully.

A few daily life things from personal experience:
1.  If you can manage - keep the beard/avoid electro as beard shadow is a good male marker, esp if HRT is being too kind to you.
2.  Be careful with the brows.   Recently. Because of 1& 2, I got mistaken for a drag king.  =_=
3.  Rash guards will help, but when you get out of the water, it's gonna cling to the moobs. 
4.  Dark, loose clothing works best in blending out chest development.  Start developing the wardrobe tendency now so it doesn't get suspicious later.  Fitted shirts are out of the question for me these days.

So long as you act butch enough, people will see what they expect to see and you'll be fine.

Thanks Luna for the input. 

I agree about the eyebrows.  so easy to mess up there.  All I do is trim the long ones short and to my natural profile, and remove accouple of the random bushier ones.  I do not do shaping or profile changing of them.  It'd show too fast, heck even removing two stragglers has more effect than you'd expect!

Elvish only in the face though, still need to lose weight.  But it is a good place to get lucky on bone structure!  Exercise and time will get the rest.

I have been doing low dose for about 12 months, some of what I have read suggests that low dose over time might have paradoxically more effect because it doesn't potentially trigger an antiestrogenic response.  So basically I expect I won't know, till I know what the maximum effect will be.

I also have the social cover of a (supportive) wife and kids, so having pictures up of them, taking about them all the time, like ones does, frames what people expect to see quite a bit.  Also the shear number of middle aged guys with gynecomastia is very high, so that helps, except I look younger than I am!  Also, I've noticed many fathers have it too, possibly due to the hormonal disruptions that being exposed to pregnant-partner hormones causes...  (Crashes T, and jacks up prolactin apparently, sets the groundwork for potential male lactation, but while possible, it is almost unheard of in the modern world.) 

I've already modified my wardrobe like you say, currently I am enjoying winter giving me the excuse to were hoodies.  I am wondering if I can fine a tight tank top that is not too heavy that'll compress in a not weird way and not have shirts cling to it weirdly.  Or maybe a plain tanktop looking camisole with a smooth fabric for the same usage...

As to rashguard clinging issues, that is why I am thinking about the invisible mesh compression trick, I think it'll breath and shead water well too, need to test that out in the shower.

Beard is always the nemesis.  I hate it, I hate shaving it, I have feeling it, and I want it gone.  But accouple hours and a shadow make passing waaay easier.  I wonder if lasering a 50-70% reduction would be a good compromise, or just look weird/dumb....


- Jaded Jade

Quote from: Jaded Jade on January 06, 2015, 02:11:00 AM
I look elven...

I thought you said Eleven... oh boy.. This is embarrassing...

Well good for you to look like an elf rather than an eleven year old.

This is interesting news as you mentioned the lose dosage was stronger on you than you imagined. This is something I worry about as I don't want to change that quickly that it makes everything harder. I guess it depends on your body size, type, height, and mental desires. perhaps you already had a small amount of estrogen in the body and this made it seem more elevated compared to the lowered testosterone.  Keep us updated on fast things change. It makes an interesting time frame to consider in ones change.

Quote from: CaptFido87 on January 08, 2015, 08:11:02 PM
This is interesting news as you mentioned the lose dosage was stronger on you than you imagined. This is something I worry about as I don't want to change that quickly that it makes everything harder. I guess it depends on your body size, type, height, and mental desires. perhaps you already had a small amount of estrogen in the body and this made it seem more elevated compared to the lowered testosterone.  Keep us updated on fast things change. It makes an interesting time frame to consider in ones change.

Not so much faster as more effective than I'd have expected for a lower dosage.  I think it is slower, but certainly having physical effects, and more than a little bit.  I figured it was worth mentioning so anyone thinking of low dose takes into account that there will still be some physical changes.  Chat with your Endo and all that... 


- Jaded Jade

Quote from: Jaded Jade on January 06, 2015, 11:54:16 PM
To get a bit mystic on it, normally I think like water and stone, with high E I think like air and fire, completely different, but once I figure it out a bit I can solve the same problems.  The shapes and order of the solutions are just a bit different.  Exactly in the middle I can do a bit of all four, but with greater difficulty on each.  If that makes sense.

I am suspecting maybe I just need more optimal ways of thinking when in the middle. 

At the current levels loss of function is not a problem, and having an adaptogen or non-T male function booster helps allot.  Plenty of OTC options for that, but I am not sure where the TOS line is for naming them...


- Jaded Jade

After almost three years in various stages of transition, I can affirm the difficulty in linear thinking while taking E,  I've been taking transition level doses for two years, and my capacity to effectively write complex code has been enormously compromised, however my ability to find creative data models for arcane requirements in science has been enhanced.  Fortunately I can hire people to code, and I only need to attempt to focus for a few more years before beginning my next life journey.  We'll see - I would much rather now do other things with my life including play with elves.
Julie

Julie

As a would be elf I have also had issues with linear thinking and decision get since hrt. But these skills are still ok while my interpersonal and relationship skills have blossomed

As you say just a few more years at our particulR grindstones then we play with with more magical and less mundan tasks and relationships

Safe travels

Aisla

I am GQ as of now but want to be recognized as she when the time arrives. Or when someone will see it in me. I suggest a sports bra, tight fit. I wear them because I am poor and travel alot.. And for my breast development.. I face seeming flat cheated but if you want it, there you go!