Hey,


I need you guys to help.

1)what training CD's, instructional audio cd's or home-course do you highly suggest for training the voice(MtF).

2) I DON'T want to have a falsetto voice- it is very fake- I want to train my voice to me more flexible, softer and more female sound- I want to get rid of the deep sound.

3) will this damage my voice?- I DON'T want to do ANYTHING which will hurt the voice- are these excersices safe IF done gently and with extreme care?- I want it to be strain-free and naturaul.

4) Will people recognize my voice as female?(of course after practicing diligently with care and patience)

5) OKay- HRT does affect the voice for some people because it makes the neck smaller, a study showed that women taking birth control pills can sing higher,- how many of you have had a change with this?

6) Will people notice(probably will) but will they say anything? Like whats up with the "new" voice

1)what training CD's, instructional audio cd's or home-course do you highly suggest for training the voice(MtF).

Are you on a tight budget?  If not, the 'Big Three" CD courses are Andrea James' (the one heard in Transamerica,) Melanie Phillips', and from ExceptionalVoice.com.  I suggest if you can afford it to try all three, tho experience a variety of techniques.

2) I DON'T want to have a falsetto voice- it is very fake- I want to train my voice to me more flexible, softer and more female sound- I want to get rid of the deep sound.

That's the trick.  Changing the resonance takes work.  But I've heard trans-women whose speaking pitch is lower than my "I'm not trying" speaking pitch, but because of the change in resonance, they sound very female.

3) will this damage my voice?- I DON'T want to do ANYTHING which will hurt the voice- are these excersices safe IF done gently and with extreme care?- I want it to be strain-free and naturaul.

If your throat tickles too much or you start coughing because of what you're doing, change what you're doing or stop it until you can figure out how to change what you're doing.

4) Will people recognize my voice as female?(of course after practicing diligently with care and patience)

I finished a voice course with a professional speech therapist.  I still get sirred on the phone occasionally, but not as much as before.  And I'm still practicing what I learned from the course.

5) OKay- HRT does affect the voice for some people because it makes the neck smaller, a study showed that women taking birth control pills can sing higher,- how many of you have had a change with this?

My break to falsetto is fairly high, but I don't think it's any higher than pre-HRT.  I haven't 'topped out' my falsetto range, I just go high enough to give the larynx muscles and vocal cords a good workout.  But my falsetto range impressed the speech therapist...

6) Will people notice(probably will) but will they say anything? Like whats up with the "new" voice

When I started working diligently on my voice, my father (who is legally blind and hadn't noticed my exterior changes,) asked me if I had a cold or something.  I also spoke with an old friend last weekend, and he commented on my voice.  Then I spoke in the old voice and he REALLY commented on the difference.  The problem is that friends and family will still be able to hear the old you through the new voice, and won't notice that much change.  It's the people who have never met you before who will just assume you're a bio-girl and that's your natural voice.

Karen

Hi, Tanya, Karen,

FWIW, I have been training my own voice.  I started by feeling how deeply into my chest my then-voice was resonating, and I pushed my voice to the falsetto range to see how much further my chest and into my throat the resonance could go.  I became aware of projecting my voice from my mouth and not any lower.

For practice I sang falsetto when I was driving (Karen Carpenter's alto voice was a great model, and I love her music!) to stretch the muscles and get them accustomed to keeping my larynx further up into my throat.

It works for me.  If I have a problem with someone on the phone I know that it's my fault if they call me by a pronoun not applicable to my gender, so I check my voice again and tell that I am a woman.

The longer you practice, the better you will sound.

Wishing you the best,

Wing Walker

Hey Tanya,

I started practicing my voice like two weeks ago, I know I'm a slacker and everything but what the heck I'm lazy   Anyways, I have to say this is extremely challenging haha.  I'm not really using any training CDs or any of that stuff just because I'm. . . what's the right word?  Ignorant and think I don't need it and can eventually figure this out haha.

Needless to say, it's posing as a great task   And I either sound really stupid or really masculine. . . shucks!   

Quote from: Karen on October 26, 2007, 09:51:46 PM
When I started working diligently on my voice, my father (who is legally blind and hadn't noticed my exterior changes,) asked me if I had a cold or something.  I also spoke with an old friend last weekend, and he commented on my voice.  Then I spoke in the old voice and he REALLY commented on the difference.  The problem is that friends and family will still be able to hear the old you through the new voice, and won't notice that much change.  It's the people who have never met you before who will just assume you're a bio-girl and that's your natural voice.

Karen

1) So wait a minute- do you have to speak this "way" consioucly- do the excersices that you do automatically "program" your voice to speak without effort a certian way?- because if you have to do it consicouly(typo) then that's not naturaul that's forcing the voice to sound a certian way.-BUT if your voice sounds like a girl without any force,  adjustment or any type of consious effort then I think it's okay.

2) so you feel no strain when you speak?

3) I'm not on tight budget really- but do the excersices you've been doing strain, hurt or pressure your voice in ANY way? are they relaxing?


Thanks Karen, great answer!

PS. I don't want to do anything which will hurt the voice- I want my voice to  freely sound like that not by deliberate effort- that is bad for the voice.


Posted on: October 27, 2007, 08:11:45 AM

---

Quote from: shanetastic on October 27, 2007, 02:32:08 AM
Hey Tanya,

I started practicing my voice like two weeks ago, I know I'm a slacker and everything but what the heck I'm lazy   Anyways, I have to say this is extremely challenging haha.  I'm not really using any training CDs or any of that stuff just because I'm. . . what's the right word?  Ignorant and think I don't need it and can eventually figure this out haha.

Needless to say, it's posing as a great task   And I either sound really stupid or really masculine. . . shucks!   

I suggest you don't try to train it yourself- you can really damage your voice if you don't no what your doing. Follow some really good study guide like the one's Karen mentioned.- you don't want to do damage. lol, yea it will be challenging if you don't have a clue what your doing and why your doing it! Drink plenty of water and don't abuse your voice.

Ahhh lazyness, I have it in me sometimes too.

Posted on: October 27, 2007, 08:16:40 AM

---

Quote from: Wing Walker on October 27, 2007, 01:25:22 AM
Hi, Tanya, Karen,

FWIW, I have been training my own voice.  I started by feeling how deeply into my chest my then-voice was resonating, and I pushed my voice to the falsetto range to see how much further my chest and into my throat the resonance could go.  I became aware of projecting my voice from my mouth and not any lower.

For practice I sang falsetto when I was driving (Karen Carpenter's alto voice was a great model, and I love her music!) to stretch the muscles and get them accustomed to keeping my larynx further up into my throat.

It works for me.  If I have a problem with someone on the phone I know that it's my fault if they call me by a pronoun not applicable to my gender, so I check my voice again and tell that I am a woman.

The longer you practice, the better you will sound.

Wishing you the best,

Wing Walker

1) So do you feel any strain or pain by the way you talk?

2) do you do it without thinking? like it comes easily to speak that way like a bio-girl?

I have never had any professional voice training but have managed to get my voice to an acceptable (by my own standards) level. Years ago I had someone ask for me in regards to a previous phone call at work. They didn't get my name and said they had spoken with a man with a high voice. That made me realize that it is not only the voice pitch but also the way you speak. I have since then learned to speak slower and softer. Today I am always recognized as a female on the phone. Phones are a very good means of practise and test.

Every morning I have to drive to the railway station to catch the train in to the city. In my car on the way to the station I always to voice warming. A choir singer taught me once an easy warm up technique using numbers. Starting low I count: 1, 2, 1 (going up on the 2 and down again on the 1), then 1, 2, 3, 2, 1 with 3 as the highest note etc up to 10. By the time I reach 10 my voice it pretty much warmed up (and I am at the station).

Karen Carpenter is so hard to follow, she had an extraordinary range and did it so effortlessly. I love her voice!

I think in the beginning you have to be concious of your voice and how you speak, but after a while it becomes second nature, just like all the other things we have to teach ourselves, like walking, sitting etc.

Have any of you ever tried the Finding Your Female Voice program?

http://www.genderlife.com/shop/transsexual-voice-feminization-video/ts-voice.htm

I ordered it because it was not too expensive and looked interesting.  It will be about a week before I get it.

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 26, 2007, 07:39:01 PM
Hey,


I need you guys to help.

1)what training CD's, instructional audio cd's or home-course do you highly suggest for training the voice(MtF).

2) I DON'T want to have a falsetto voice- it is very fake- I want to train my voice to me more flexible, softer and more female sound- I want to get rid of the deep sound.

3) will this damage my voice?- I DON'T want to do ANYTHING which will hurt the voice- are these excersices safe IF done gently and with extreme care?- I want it to be strain-free and naturaul.

4) Will people recognize my voice as female?(of course after practicing diligently with care and patience)

5) OKay- HRT does affect the voice for some people because it makes the neck smaller, a study showed that women taking birth control pills can sing higher,- how many of you have had a change with this?

6) Will people notice(probably will) but will they say anything? Like whats up with the "new" voice

most training doesnt damage if done properly

and i had change with hrt... but i am young...
now i cant sound male even if i try... and my patterns and other speach thingys are naturally female that i picked up subconsiously from friends and others...
its just my voice now...
R

Quote from: Rachael on October 27, 2007, 12:03:35 PM

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 26, 2007, 07:39:01 PM
Hey,


I need you guys to help.

1)what training CD's, instructional audio cd's or home-course do you highly suggest for training the voice(MtF).

2) I DON'T want to have a falsetto voice- it is very fake- I want to train my voice to me more flexible, softer and more female sound- I want to get rid of the deep sound.

3) will this damage my voice?- I DON'T want to do ANYTHING which will hurt the voice- are these excersices safe IF done gently and with extreme care?- I want it to be strain-free and naturaul.

4) Will people recognize my voice as female?(of course after practicing diligently with care and patience)

5) OKay- HRT does affect the voice for some people because it makes the neck smaller, a study showed that women taking birth control pills can sing higher,- how many of you have had a change with this?

6) Will people notice(probably will) but will they say anything? Like whats up with the "new" voice

most training doesnt damage if done properly

and i had change with hrt... but i am young...
now i cant sound male even if i try... and my patterns and other speach thingys are naturally female that i picked up subconsiously from friends and others...
its just my voice now...
R

Kewl,

I guess HRT can make a difference for some- I'll have to see if HRT renders some results- there is a possibility it might and if it won't then that's okay but I think I have some faith in HRT.

I think it could be from the the smaller neck size, smaller voice box, change in vocal cords.etc something physical like that.

We've talked about this already Racheal.
Changes to the bony and cartilage structure are uni-directional,
no going back, no matter how young you are. If they're done, they're done.
Many changes of T to the vocal cords are also unidirectional.

The remaining changes possible, soft tissue and some vocal cord changes, are not very pronounced and their effect would be subtle.

Maybe you had a large range and your simply talking in your head voice, which makes a big difference in pitch right there. In my top range of my head voice, I can talk (and could prior to HRT) at F0=290 pretty easily, that's very very high.

1) So wait a minute- do you have to speak this "way" consioucly- do the excersices that you do automatically "program" your voice to speak without effort a certian way?- because if you have to do it consicouly(typo) then that's not naturaul that's forcing the voice to sound a certian way.-BUT if your voice sounds like a girl without any force,  adjustment or any type of consious effort then I think it's okay.

I have to think about what I'm doing from time to time, but the more I do it, the more it becomes my natural way of speaking.  And it really comes out in social situations such as when I'm shopping and such (really good female sounds come out of me in the ladies' room  )  It's NOT natural at first.  I needed help from a coach because I felt the right way was the wrong way.  My voice does not sound like a girl.  It's close enough to maintain the illusion for most people who don't know me from before.

BEFORE:
http://www.flashofinsight.com/web/WorkSamples/GH_Divert_WEB.wmv

AFTER:
http://www.flashofinsight.com/soundfiles/PFl->-bleeped-<-ieceMixdown.MP3

Again, right now just enough so new people don't go "Hey -- waidaminnit..."

2) so you feel no strain when you speak?

When I practice, there is strain. I try to push myself without damage, so next time I'll be more limber and better able to hit 'that spot' with my voice.  When I'm speaking (rather than practicing,) I try to not strain my voice.  Maybe I don't sound as good as during practice, but I'm able to keep it up longer.


3) I'm not on tight budget really- but do the excersices you've been doing strain, hurt or pressure your voice in ANY way? are they relaxing?

Again, there's strain and sometimes discomfort, but with the help and guidance of my voice coach we figured out for me a safe distance from the potential for injury.  I wouldn't say I relax when I do the vocal exercises -- if I did that, my old voice would return.  But we did non-vocalizing relaxation exercizes to loosen the muscles and ligaments in the jaw, tongue, neck and larynx.  Afterward, I found it easier to vocalize.

I hope this helps;

Karen

Quote from: Keira on October 27, 2007, 02:23:06 PM
We've talked about this already Racheal.
Changes to the bony and cartilage structure are uni-directional,
no going back, no matter how young you are. If they're done, they're done.
Many changes of T to the vocal cords are also unidirectional.

The remaining changes possible, soft tissue and some vocal cord changes, are not very pronounced and their effect would be subtle.

Maybe you had a large range and your simply talking in your head voice, which makes a big difference in pitch right there. In my top range of my head voice, I can talk (and could prior to HRT) at F0=290 pretty easily, that's very very high.

Try not to tell me what i sound like, ok?
Ask Maud, or Andra, on these boards, who have spoken to me...
My voice before was very very male, now, it is very very female, please dont judge on what little evidence you have...
you havent even heard before or after to compare. i wouldnt know a headvoice if it hit me in mine!
R

I don't need to hear you to disprove a totally non scientific causality.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to reverse T changes on the vocal cord.

Go to the science academy to get yourself inscribed as a non-human
if you got a change.

It's IMPOSSIBLE, repeat it many times in whatever pitch you want.

You didn't even listen to what I said.
With a big range you could easily switch from one to the other

My speaking range is F0=90 to F0=290, that's darth vader to minnie mouse range, before or after HRT. If you've got range, YOU DON'T NEED PHYSICAL CHANGES to the vocal cords to speak higher and sound female. You can just do it if you try (that this attempt or slow slide is subconscious is not important).

If you think I'm miffed, well you got that right. 

Hi Keira

Do you know of any software that can measure your range?

Personally I would be interested to know whether I have any potential to raise mine more or whether it is at it's maximum. When I hear my own voice on recordings I don't like it, but then again I've never heard of anyone who does.

Quote from: Karen on October 27, 2007, 02:50:10 PM
My voice does not sound like a girl.  It's close enough to maintain the illusion for most people who don't know me from before.

Same here. If someone already assumes I'm female for whatever reason, my voice doesn't seem to ever break that assumption.

The only problem is on the phone, where I get sirred now and then. What's helped me though is to always try and mention my name immediately in any conversation, just to set the assumption in their heads that whatever they hear next must be from a female. "Hi, my name is Kate, I'm calling to..." or "Hi, this is Kate, how can I help you?"

I realize The Voice does take practice, but I also think that as with other mannerisms and behaviours, the voice tends to evolve a bit on it's own simply through being (re)socialized as a woman in society.

~Kate~

YOu know Kiera,i mention nowhere my 'bony cartilage' has changed. or that i am super human.
i state that my voice has changed. which, it has. male voice -> female voice, to be brutally honest, i don't care how, or why. its staying this way, i can scream, cough, shout, sneeze, whisper and heck, even LOOSE my voice, and sound female. Dispute this fact if you may, but the sound which comes out me gob, is not the same as before, by whatever means. and i dont need your petty wingeing telling me what i and other can hear... my own FAMILY cant recognise my voice now... (well didnt when they phoned 4 months later)
R

Kiera, there can be in rare cases changes to the vocal chords that result in a more feminine voice.  It does happen and I have seen the list of medical side effects for MtF HRT, and it is listed.

On the side note I had an upper end range.  I don't speak in falsetto, what I learned is to change WHERE I am speaking from.    For some its subconscious they are even doing that and think its hrt, when the reality is they just shifted WHERE they were speaking from. 

The truth is for me vocal anything was very easy to figure out. 

Amy, I've looked at your studies and I even mentioned that some vocal cord changes can occur, but the changes are much smaller,  than the what you can do by just using your range.  They are subtle. Its even worse, since its easily possible for someone to shift their pitch subconsicously, a subtle shift would be very hard to distinguish from this effect statistically.

Changes in resonnance, which would be a lot less subtle don't dependf on the vocal cords itself and those are certainly not reversable.