Quote from: ThePhoenix on January 11, 2015, 11:02:55 PMOnce again, there is nothing inherently bad or wrong about having various amounts of "male" mixed into one's identity or ones actions or ones "vibe." But I do wish it were something we could be honest about, recognize it in ourselves, and discuss what it means. But I would be unsurprised if people who give off the male "vibe" are even aware of it, or whether they genuinely believe that "vibe" does not exist.
I don't believe it exists. Or rather I do. But I don't believe it exists in my body as actor, I believe it exists in your head as observer. I don't see behaviours as inherently gendered, any more than colours or clothes or well, anything. Gender is an idea that we attach to the thing, and then proceed to socially enforce as normative.
When I sit with my legs crossed above the knee, I am not "sitting like a girl." I am sitting with my legs crossed. People observing me perceive the action of sitting with my legs crossed above the knee as "sitting like a girl." Or to put it simply, gender is frequently less of an adjective and more of a verb. We gender people, we gender actions, we gender speech and behaviour and ideas and emotions and every little thing. Because we have been trained to do this, and we have been trained to do it from a young age in a very precise manner.
When I was going to an electrologist back in the day, she commented that I was unlike other trans women she had treated. (Well for one, I don't ID as a woman, but she didn't know that...) I was "serious"; I was "so obviously female." Whatever. What she really meant is "you sound female and you look female and you speak quietly and listen attentively and passively and you BEHAVE like a good girl." Or rather "congrats for conforming to the patriarchy, you win a gold star." Hilariously I was dressed in men's clothes at the time (as is my wont), but it didn't matter because my "natural femininity shined through" (comment from my gender therapist under similar circumstances; GAG). I.e. I was young and pretty and she couldn't see any man in my face or body.
It's nonsense. And sexist, heteronormative nonsense at that. I am an andro queer female. I present masculine-of-centre. I've never worn a dress or dangly earrings or high heels in my life and I have no intention of starting any time soon. I have as much "natural femininity" as the average banana. All these people are noticing is that I am conventionally attractive for a lady-equivalent person, I was socialized to be polite to strangers, I read people well, and I'm shy.
But that isn't the only thing that's going on. The other thing is, many, many trans folk are kind of bat->-bleeped-<-. I mean, sorry, but we are, self included. Dysphoria is vile, society treats us like lepers and it all takes a definitive mental toll, so a lot of us deal with various kinds of being a screwed up mess as a result. My experience of living in a house of trans women recovering from SRS for a week was a fascinating display of everything from major depression to extreme narcissism to social dysfunction to crippling anxiety to actual delusions and disconnect from reality. My arms are covered in self-inflicted scars from back in the day, I'm medicated for anxiety... and I'm relatively sane compared to many. And those that are worst off are the ones who gravitate to support groups, while creatures who are more stable vanish like ghosts. Am I surprised you encountered a bunch of people lacking social grace in that environment? No, not really. I have too. The only difference: I would describe them as irritating and obnoxious rather than "male vibes."
And yet you are correct, I would more often ascribe that kind of behaviour to males than females. Because men can get away with that ->-bleeped-<-, and women can't. Because of power imbalance. Not because of some inherent characteristic, but because "bitch" is so easily attached to any female who exercises any degree of power or autonomy. And good girls aren't supposed to be like that. I'm simplifying obviously, but that is the core of it.
What you are seeing is most likely people who are or were in a lot of pain and didn't learn how to behave well because they weren't forced to. Just people. Nothing special. You can call it "male vibes" if you like. But the gender is in your eyes, not in their bodies.
Because the truth is, those people were women. So their "vibes" were the vibes of women. Their actions were the actions of women. Their behaviours were the behaviours of women. Gender identity isn't about how you are perceived, it's about how you self-perceive.
And I had to giggle at the suggestion that the "male vibe-y" be ditched into the non-binary spectrum. Yesh, I'm as non-binary as the next but I like to think I've got some semblance of social grace, maybe even a dash or two of sweetness on a good day!
Basically, Asche, you met some trans folks who you didn't get on with. S'cool. Bet I could totes charm your socks off though and I'm about as "masculine" as trans females get.