Hi everyone,

I've encountered a lot of situations lately that have really caused me to ask myself if maybe coming completely out about my transition, and actually presenting as who I am, is a better idea for me than just presenting as male like I do... It's really complicated, so I want to know what you all would do. And I mean it when I say that this has been causing me a lot of stress.

First off, keeping in mind that my hair is only like four inches long, everyone knows me as a male, and I present as such, a lot of people on my dorm floor and at work are starting to treat me noticeably worse than they used to -- in that it's really obvious that I've changed in the last 4 months. People at work don't talk to me anymore, and one specific guy I work with explicitly made fun of me the other day for being a "girly" guy... A lot of people do this now, and I'm sick of it because they're essentially asserting their dominance onto me.

Moreover, I have to walk around with this vest on because my breast area protrudes a couple of inches, and I don't want to elicit anymore odd questions about what's going on down there... Some of them have been made out of malice, like from my former roommate.

The last major thing is that I was verbally attacked by, chased by, and almost physically attacked by, a man today as I was walking somewhere. He kept calling me vulgar names and told me to not ever walk in front of him again or he'll show me. I walked off because i didn't want a conflict, but he followed me and yelled at me about how I'm a "little bitch" and whatnot. I eventually ran (and never saw him again), but I had to even hear, "I don't care how gay, or whatever the <not allowed> you are; you'd better get back here, or I'll f*ing kill your ass."

Guys, I'm just tired of it. I'm tired of the obvious stares, the threats, rude guys asserting their dominance onto me, nicer guys telling me I look "cool-looking" instead of seeing me as female... I'm tired of having to hide the parts of my femininity that people like, I'm tired of being in the closet... I'm tired of odd scenarios, such as being treated like a boy, or experiencing being abruptly stopped in public by a well-intentioned lady to be told that I'm the "cutest kid" she's ever seen, whenever I want to lead the life of a gorgeous woman and nothing else.

I really sometimes feel that presenting as female -- hair, makeup, clothes, and all -- would prevent anymore of these uncomfortable situations from occurring. But, I'm terrified that it won't work out, and I'll look dumb to those who questioned that I could even succeed at this. I have some hindrances left, such as razor bumps from shaving my face clear every other day... Or my inability to really gain enough body fat just yet...

How do you KNOW when you're ready to finally go full-time? How much of a difference can it really make in how you're perceived? I'm stressed (as a lot of this has occurred since I returned to my school a couple days ago), and I'm so clueless and confused...

Thanks for reading this very lengthy, verbose post.

Alice

I went full time when I realized that I was more comfortable presenting myself as a woman than as a fake guy and I didn't care what anyone thought about it.

I was part time for almost a year presenting as much as I could as female.

I also was on HRT for 5 years before I went full time.

A tragic event that allowed me to start full time.

If I knew full time was so liberating I would have done it earlier.

You have to know or you will know when it is safe to present.

Hugs and safe passage.

Alice,

I am 19 months into HRT.  I actually started presenting before I started my HRT.  I suppose I guess it is something different for everyone.  I didn't start going out as the real me though until I was about 12 months on HRT, and by going out, I mean wearing dresses and stuff like that.  I still wear jeans and a hoodie a lot of the time but that is because they're so comfy.  I don't buy men's clothing and I haven't for quite some time.  If you are being heckled about the way you look, I would discuss this with a therapist to see what might be the best course of action for you personally.  I was always quite effeminate so it didn't take much for me to pass as a female even before I started my HRT. 

I also had breast forms before I started HRT so I could go out as me and not have to worry about that part of it.  I went through my share of awkward phases but don't let them fool you!

I am going to quote my diary now...

"God does not make mistakes, He makes individuals and he loves each and every one of his inventions..."

I reach a point in my transition when I knew I was going to ready because I had planned for it. I am sure my situation is different, but in my case I had done my FFS,  I was on hormones, my hair grown out enough that I was comfortable wearing it day to day, I had my electrolysis under control and I just felt that I was as ready as I ever could be. I knew I wouldn't be perfect, but here I was and ready to make the leap of faith It only got better and easier after that.

Just remember that we lack female social skills when we first start off. We just don't have the same life experience. There are so many things that we need to learn and quickly in order to adapt and fit in. Unfortunately, you can't get to that point without taking the jump first, but then it wouldn't be an adventure

The real thing that gave me the kick in the pants was the FFS. After that was done I finally loved mirrors because I had to keep pinching myself to make sure it was all real. I really wanted full time when that was done. To me I consider full time to be the day my legal name change came back from court and I was able to start changing my name everywhere.

I tend to use a simple approach to get answers to most problems in life...

Which Pain is Worse?

There are no perfect answers. For sure you know the pain of one choice. Yet, do you know the pain of the other? There is likely nothing to stop you from venturing out into the real world as the real you on a temporary basis. "Presenting" isn't an Not or Forever choice. I've done part-time for quite a while.  Perhaps there are some minor logistical problems to resolve to manage an escape from maleness, but sort of minor in the grand scheme of things

Its all you... Hard to say what Id do in your position.  My experience, I wasn't sure I was ready, I just decided to try it because... well, why not, I was going to anyway, so I kinda jumped into it a year earlier than Id ever thought, and it was much easier than I ever expected. Then again, there where so many factors for me that probably are not the same for you.... End of the marriage, completely accepting AND supportive office, no friends to speak of, family out of my life many years ago....  If I had had as much to risk as many before me have, I wouldn't have taken that step so easily.  It sure is a long one, and I see no way back to where things were (not that Id ever want to go back).

Quote from: Jill F on January 13, 2015, 08:57:17 PM
I went full time when I realized that I was more comfortable presenting myself as a woman than as a fake guy and I didn't care what anyone thought about it.

That was the wisest, most straightforward thing you could have said in response to my post. I 100% agree with yor philosophy.

Your going to change a lot more. You are only 4 months in. I have been in a similar position to you, in fact I am still there. Except I am 12 months on E and 7 months on Spiro. No one has actually given me a hard time although I do get funny looks sometimes when I slip from andro to like, femdro, especially. Not to be negative but I doubt these douches who are being offensive will treat you any better if you start presenting as female. If I did not feel ready to do it I would not to it, as evident my my own public outness so far. At home I present myself as I like, among my family, but I don't approach that level yet in public. I will admit though, I am very conservative, and happy to take it easy.

Quote from: Falwynn Falconwind on January 13, 2015, 09:06:13 PM
Alice,

I am 19 months into HRT.  I actually started presenting before I started my HRT.  I suppose I guess it is something different for everyone.  I didn't start going out as the real me though until I was about 12 months on HRT, and by going out, I mean wearing dresses and stuff like that.  I still wear jeans and a hoodie a lot of the time but that is because they're so comfy.  I don't buy men's clothing and I haven't for quite some time.  If you are being heckled about the way you look, I would discuss this with a therapist to see what might be the best course of action for you personally.  I was always quite effeminate so it didn't take much for me to pass as a female even before I started my HRT. 

I also had breast forms before I started HRT so I could go out as me and not have to worry about that part of it.  I went through my share of awkward phases but don't let them fool you!

I am going to quote my diary now...

"God does not make mistakes, He makes individuals and he loves each and every one of his inventions..."

Thanks for the advice. Obviously, I sometimes enjoy the heckling, but I'd rather attract men then get made fun of by them. And I know I can, because I occasionally get gendered correctly at least. But this, in combination with all the other scenarios I mentioned, really makes me question if I should just take the risk of finally presenting. And as for me, I used to be a bodybuilder, so I obviously wasn't effeminate. I guess that's another thing -- going from being perceived as a macho to a young woman in four months is pretty scary, but god, I just want to be myself.

As for the therapist thing, I do see one. I'll certainty mention this to him tomorrow.

In reference to your journal quote that you afforded me, the idea of any personal god is far too irrational for me to ever even consider using as a coping mechanism, or as viewpoint from which I can reconcile what I'm undergoing right now. I'm 100% godless, have been this way my entire life, and have made it a thousand times further than anyone ever thought possible. In two years, I'll lead a great, stable life, and I attribute this to my deep-seated resilience and conscientiousness as a student -- certainly not to some deity who would create someone, obscure himself from them, silently demand worship from them, and punish them for failing to discern him.

Maybe I digress, but was your quote not explicit playing off of my signature? Lol.

I have been presenting in public here and there since august, and I started E like 3-4 weeks ago. I think you should try to experiment. take it slow. no need to go full time right away. Just go out for a walk presenting female or take a trip to a gas station that you normally don't go to in women's clothes. That would be a good way to gauge peoples reactions without having to let the whole world know you are trans. I wouldn't recommend moving to fast because you never know how people are going to react. If they become hostile and you are in a situation where you are stuck, it could have a negative affect on your mental health.

Also if you don't like men asserting dominance on you u should probably avoid men ( I dont mean this literally). They are socialized to assert dominance. The transition is not gonna help in this regard. They see you as feminine so they think you are less than, because sexism, so therefor if they see you as a women they are still going to assert dominance on you because they think women are less then men. That last part isn't probably what you wanted to hear, but its just how it is though.

As for presenting, only you know when the time is right.  It may help your case to throw on some makeup and alter your appearance... it might be just what is needed to throw haters and bigots off your being an effeminate male.  They may see you as just a female.  I'm not saying that it will be easy, but it may make it easier for you.  I think that Jill had it right.  When faking it becomes less desirable than being the real you.

Quote from: Jill F on January 13, 2015, 08:57:17 PM
I went full time when I realized that I was more comfortable presenting myself as a woman than as a fake guy and I didn't care what anyone thought about it.

Quote from: amber roskamp on January 13, 2015, 11:04:16 PM
I have been presenting in public here and there since august, and I started E like 3-4 weeks ago. I think you should try to experiment. take it slow. no need to go full time right away. Just go out for a walk presenting female or take a trip to a gas station that you normally don't go to in women's clothes. That would be a good way to gauge peoples reactions without having to let the whole world know you are trans. I wouldn't recommend moving to fast because you never know how people are going to react. If they become hostile and you are in a situation where you are stuck, it could have a negative affect on your mental health.

Also if you don't like men asserting dominance on you u should probably avoid men ( I dont mean this literally). They are socialized to assert dominance. The transition is not gonna help in this regard. They see you as feminine so they think you are less than, because sexism, so therefor if they see you as a women they are still going to assert dominance on you because they think women are less then men. That last part isn't probably what you wanted to hear, but its just how it is though.

Actually, taking it slow is a great idea. Thank you for that. I always think I'll just wake up one day and feel like today is the day, but I'll most likely ease into it as you had suggested. And what you've said about men is true, and is part of the reason I abhorred being one.

Quote from: Falwynn Falconwind on January 13, 2015, 11:12:31 PM
As for presenting, only you know when the time is right.  It may help your case to throw on some makeup and alter your appearance... it might be just what is needed to throw haters and bigots off your being an effeminate male.  They may see you as just a female.  I'm not saying that it will be easy, but it may make it easier for you.  I think that Jill had it right.  When faking it becomes less desirable than being the real you.

This is what I've been considering doing -- that and doing whatever there is to do with my bowl haircut thingy. Thanks for your input.

Alice

For the first 3 months before HRT and after I started therapy, I had a wig, nothing fancy mind you.  I had a boy cut extraordinarily short!  It wasn't until I started my March therapy sessions that my therapist wanted to see my real hair.  She applauded my hair and told me I should go without the wig.  I haven't worn the wig since.  It was an awesome way to jumpstart my self-confidence in the beginning though!

Quote from: Seras on January 13, 2015, 10:39:29 PM
Your going to change a lot more. You are only 4 months in. I have been in a similar position to you, in fact I am still there. Except I am 12 months on E and 7 months on Spiro. No one has actually given me a hard time although I do get funny looks sometimes when I slip from andro to like, femdro, especially. Not to be negative but I doubt these douches who are being offensive will treat you any better if you start presenting as female. If I did not feel ready to do it I would not to it, as evident my my own public outness so far. At home I present myself as I like, among my family, but I don't approach that level yet in public. I will admit though, I am very conservative, and happy to take it easy.

Okay, my question wasn't a question of whether I passively pass right now, or even if I will near the end of my transition. Thus, I don't know why you insinuated that I'll need to develop more, or why you kindly stated that I'd essentially be perceived as a man presenting as female to males. I've never said something like that to someone on a trans forum...

I tend to think that, given how many people gender me correctly now, whenever I'm not presenting, maybe I can at least consider taking this to the next level. I want to know if anyone who maybe at one point, looked only mostly passable without makeup or anything has ever taken the leap of presenting female in public and whether it worked for them.

The difference making an effort to look female can have on the public's perception of you, especially when your body is set. This is the kind o information I'm inquiring.

I think a good way to convey the nature of the problem I'm facing is to just ask this:

To the women who were brave enough to confront the world as that person that you are viscerally, did anyone have high expectations as to how feminine you must look without actively presenting as female? Did you look in the mirror while presenting as male (like I myself do) and tell yourself that you have to naturally look such and such feminine before presenting?

This is what I personally do, and it's because I'm so terrified of looking in the mirror and seeing a male trying to be female. I have confidence in myself nowadays, but I'm still scared to even present as female in my own privacy. I guess, since I've only dressed female once in private, and didn't quite know what I was doing, maybe I'm curious as to how well actively presenting can bridge the gap that may still exist between your natural appearance and passing all the time.

And I really don't want to read a personalized reply to my question, such as, "Well, based off how you appear in your profile, etc. presenting as female will make such and such difference. Give it time."

People's opinions do affect me, and when someone says, for example, that presenting probably won't make males anymore attracted to me than before, I honestly start to hate myself even more than I already do. That post really caused my dysphoria to spike. Please just take my main question in a general sense.

Alice

Alice,

I hated the person looking back at me in the mirror.  I hated who I was.  Every time I saw myself it would throw me deeper and deeper into depression.  It got so bad I ended up hanging a towel over the mirror so that I wouldn't have to see that person looking back.  I never ever saw myself as male.  When I was in Middle and high school, I would make myself vomit so that I wouldn't have to go to gym class and endure the dreaded locker room.  I still have a phobia of that God forsaken place. 

As far as dressing up, I just read that you've only done it once in private.  I was VERY comfortable with myself dressing in private by the time I decided to present.  I experimented with makeup, wow was I horrible at it at first! (LOL)  Anyway The first time I really presented.  I had determined that I was going to go to a Lindsey Stirling concert is my first "outing"  It was exhilarating! 

I would say before you present yourself to the outside world, become more at one with your new you in private.  Then you can do what I did and take short adventures: get your mail; go to the gas station, the store... to get more comfortable with yourself in public.

I remember  being dressed as a girl and darting out to my mailbox and as quick as I could getting back inside the safe haven of my house. (LOL)

I guess when I started presenting is when people started calling me by female pronouns, (She her, maám, miss, lady) you get the idea. 

Hi Jasper,

I went FT when I wasn't 'passing' and couldn't anyway. I came out at work where everyone knew me as a 'guy'. Yes I could still see 'him' in the mirror, and he hung around for quite awhile. But I felt I was ready as I wasn't interested in playing games anymore, I had accepted myself as the woman I am and I realised other peoples opinions meant nothing to me. It was my opinion of me that mattered.

I was lucky, people accepted me for who I am, the woman at work had no issues at all, I used the female loo from day one and no one questioned that at all. Guys were slower but I understand that, men are a bit lost in trying to get heir head around why anyone would want to be female - no matter how respectful they may be.

I did have short hair and I found a hairdresser who was happy to help me feminise my look as much as possible, they have been looking after me for three years now and I'm a bit of a favourite with them, and they are very special to me.

Yes I had been wearing female clothing most of my life and was comfortable walking and dressing appropriately for a woman my age and position. Being comfortable in your clothes is important but you can practice that at home, how to sit etc, how to go to the loo!

I also studied how women and men interact in public, you can do that at any shopping mall. Women do treat other women differently and you need to be comfortable with that as well.

This journey is different for all of us, I tend to emphasize self confidence above all else, but for some girls looks or voice are more important. So as for when? The only correct answer is when you are ready. You may well want to start off by going shopping, or to the movies, somewhere where you are anonymous, to get use to the feel of life as you.

What was important for me was knowing that there is no going back, so I did very deliberately destroy any bridge that I had to return to being 'him'.

I have never regretted it, not for a single second.

Quote from: Jasper93 on January 13, 2015, 08:52:51 PM
The last major thing is that I was verbally attacked by, chased by, and almost physically attacked by, a man today as I was walking somewhere. He kept calling me vulgar names and told me to not ever walk in front of him again or he'll show me. I walked off because i didn't want a conflict, but he followed me and yelled at me about how I'm a "little bitch" and whatnot. I eventually ran (and never saw him again), but I had to even hear, "I don't care how gay, or whatever the <not allowed> you are; you'd better get back here, or I'll f*ing kill your ass."

I do not know where you live, but I think it is very rude or even criminal that the guy chases and attacks you verbally. Why don't you call police?

I have never faced such a case during the last 12 years.

Gradual progress is always nice and better. People need some time to digest and be adjusted to your new presentation.

Good luck!

barbie~~